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Click & drag ...

posted by serializer on - last edited - Viewed by 1.7K users

So, there have already been plenty of comments about this "interesting" UI decision.

Just one question:

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[*]In what way is Click & Drag better than Point & Click?
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I really hope somebody from Telltale can answer this question, because I haven't seen any official answer to any other complaints about this issue.

Let me just list the reasons why I think it's a terrible control system (and this is a considered opinion having played four episodes using it, I have really tried to give it a chance!)

[LIST]
[*]Guybrush frequently gets stuck on bits of scenery, breaking the flow of movement (this is probably the most serious issue)
[*]Sometimes on boundaries where the camera changes, Guybrush gets locked up (obviously getting stuck in a loop moving from one camera to the other and trying to move both ways at once!) The place I particularly noticed this was on the Screaming Narwhal when De Cava's crew were tied up, the spot where the camera switches to Morgan.
[*]The idea of streamlining an interface is to reduce the amount of actions the user has to perform to achieve a task. What you have done is increase the actions I have to perform. Previously if I wanted to walk somewhere I just had to click. (In S&M S2 you refined this further with Click & Hold.) Now, I have to click and then move the mouse. You have increased the complexity of that most basic of actions - walking!
[*]It's inconsistent and doesn't make sense. If I want to walk to someone and talk to them, I click on them. If I want to walk to an object and pick it up, I click on it. If I want to just walk somewhere, I have to click and drag. Mentally switching between these two interface paradigms can sometimes be confusing and disorienting. Yes, I'm hung over this morning - that doesn't help - but really, I think I should be able to play a cartoon adventure game in any state.
[*]It's a drag! Ho ho.
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I don't get it ... I know you introduced the new mechanism for translation to XBOX and WII platforms, but why not also leave the old control system in place? I really hope this is a decision you can reverse for future titles, I just wish you had already done so in EP2, or even better, during playtesting!

129 Comments - Linear Discussion: Classic Style
  • @serializer said: I really hope somebody from Telltale can answer this question, because I haven't seen any official answer to any other complaints about this issue.

    My god there were many discussions about the controls in this forum even before the game was released. The Arrow-keys were first used in Wallace & Gromit and in the discussion in the forum for this game you will find your answers.

    Get used to the new controls (i tprefere the arrow-keys, click & drag really feels a bit weird) and then go back to a modern point & Click adventure. I hope you notice that there are some more then strange cammera angles in places with low space (some games even use top-cammera for some scenes).
    After playing ToMI and wallce & Grommit this just feels and looks so wrong.

    Another problem (that maybe only I had) in older Telltale-Games was missing the clicking spot. This resulted in the characters to move across the whole screen without me wanting it.

  • Point and click can be very annoying. When you have a scrolling screen you have to click on the very edge of the screen and then a little bit of the screen scrolls and you have to keep clicking on the newly exposed bit of screen to keep your character moving. I think that disrupts the flow more than running into bits of scenery. I know I find it annoying as hell. Do I think the new control schemes are better? In short: no. Do I think point and click should still be an option? Definitely! Having said that I do understand why they are trying to move away from point and click.

    In ToMI I personally prefer to click and drag over using the W,A,S,D keys. When playing adventure games I like to sit back in my chair and only have my hand on the mouse. Click and drag is not perfect but you get used to it. It takes a little practice but I'm fine with it now. A little while ago I started a thread asking people what control method they preferred (from the options in the game). The split between people who mouse drag and people who use the W,A,S,D keys is surprisingly close.

  • @der_ketzer said:
    Get used to the new controls

    Is four episodes not enough to get used to a control system? Will I really feel different after one more? I've adapted to them - but I still haven't got used to them. They just feel clunky, and wrong.

    @der_ketzer said:
    (i tprefere the arrow-keys, click & drag really feels a bit weird)

    I don't mind keys. I've played FPS games for years so WASD feels fairly natural. I actually didn't mind Grim Fandango's controls. But having to use keys and mouse is really unneccesary. And my left hand is a hook so I'm, like, being discriminated against for being an actual mighty pirate.

    @der_ketzer said:
    then go back to a modern point & Click adventure.

    I did.

    Since starting ToMI, I bought the Telltale uber pack and have now played thru two seasons of Sam and Max, and started Strongbad. Point & Click is just way better. Having played those other games recently, now I'm on Ch. 4 Click & Drag just feels really bad and I keep trying to click places to move there, that's why I noticed it so much more that I felt I should comment.

    @der_ketzer said:
    I hope you notice that there are some more then strange cammera angles in places with low space (some games even use top-cammera for some scenes).

    I can't say I've noticed this problem. Can you give a specific example? Either way, I find Click & Drag harder to navigate cramped areas, because of the collision problems (Guybrush just stops walking when he collides with solids, rather than carrying on walking around them)

    @der_ketzer said:
    Another problem (that maybe only I had) in older Telltale-Games was missing the clicking spot. This resulted in the characters to move across the whole screen without me wanting it.

    I know what you mean. But I think they could have worked on fixing that problem, rather than attempting to reinvent the wheel.

    @der_ketzer said: Point and click can be very annoying. When you have a scrolling screen you have to click on the very edge of the screen and then a little bit of the screen scrolls and you have to keep clicking on the newly exposed bit of screen to keep your character moving.

    Actually, they fixed that in Sam & Max season 2. You could keep the mouse held down and Sam would just keep walking. I think it was mentioned in the Options screen, or perhaps the tutorial (which I did just for giggles).

    All in all, I still can't say I've seen any compelling reason behind Click & Drag, and I think all my original points still stand. Even if it were better for consoles (which I can't comment on since I haven't tried it) I don't understand why Point and Click was removed, since you still have to point & click to interact with stuff.

    I also didn't mention the other bad side of Click & Drag, which is that the circley halo arrow thing around Guybrush looks awful, could there at least be an option to hide that? It really spoils the style of an otherwise amazing-looking game!

  • Oh: and, if you click and drag to the right, even if you are already facing right, Guybrush will still playing the facing-left-jumping-around-to-face-right animation before he starts walking. Just a weird animation glitch!

  • @Woodsyblue said: Point and click can be very annoying. When you have a scrolling screen you have to click on the very edge of the screen and then a little bit of the screen scrolls and you have to keep clicking on the newly exposed bit of screen to keep your character moving. I think that disrupts the flow more than running into bits of scenery. I know I find it annoying as hell. Do I think the new control schemes are better? In short: no. Do I think point and click should still be an option? Definitely! Having said that I do understand why they are trying to move away from point and click.

    In ToMI I personally prefer to click and drag over using the W,A,S,D keys. When playing adventure games I like to sit back in my chair and only have my hand on the mouse. Click and drag is not perfect but you get used to it. It takes a little practice but I'm fine with it now. A little while ago I started a thread asking people what control method they preferred (from the options in the game). The split between people who mouse drag and people who use the W,A,S,D keys is surprisingly close.


    True, but when you add on the people using arrow keys (which is basically the same thing, but for lefties), the margin diversifies (is that the right word?)

  • @Friar said: True, but when you add on the people using arrow keys (which is basically the same thing, but for lefties), the margin diversifies (is that the right word?)

    The word your looking for is "augmentifies."

  • I just discovered something ground breaking today: Double click on any object will make Guybrush run to the object.
    It took me 4 chapters to discover it lol :)

  • When I first played Episode 1, the tips that were showing on the screen only said that I could move by clicking and dragging the mouse. I hated it. I only found out that I could use keyboard controls instead by accident. It felt much more intuitive than using my mouse.

    But it's a matter of opinion. Everyone has their own tastes and it's good that the desginers gave us both options.

  • @serializer said:
    Actually, they fixed that in Sam & Max season 2. You could keep the mouse held down and Sam would just keep walking. I think it was mentioned in the Options screen, or perhaps the tutorial (which I did just for giggles).

    It's true, the point and clicking in Sam & Max Season 2 was the best I've ever used. Though, if you think about it it is a variant of the click and drag. The difference being you have to point at where you want to go rather than on the character. Because you had to point to were you were going you still had the screen scrolling issue somewhat. (Instead of constantly clicking you had to hold the cursor at the edge of the screen.)

    I still thing that point and click should have been an option but I'm used to the click and drag now and I'm fine with it.

    @serializer said: True, but when you add on the people using arrow keys (which is basically the same thing, but for lefties), the margin diversifies (is that the right word?)

    Hey, some new people must have voted since I last looked as that thread. The last time I saw it Click and Drag was roughly the same as W,A,S,D and arrow keys combined. The point is however that the percentage of people who point and drag is far higher then one would expect (or, at least the very least, that I expected.)

  • Personally I preferred the click and drag used in Strongbad, where the cursors direction away from the character controlled the direction the character ran in, and not the direction that you'd last moved your cursor in.

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