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Traditional animation vs. 3D animation...

posted by Leplaya on - last edited - Viewed by 4.4K users

I am not that big of King's quest, but I have seen bits of pieces of the games. The only game of King's quest that I remember playing was the 7th one, and that one was the Princeless Bride. I'm not that big into the animation of that one(Since I dislike it when people mimic the Disney style) but my sister likes it and it reminds her of Don Bluth's style. I know the game is likely to be done in 3D but will there be certain parts of the game that will use 2D? Or even better, used for the cutscenes of the game? It would be sweet if that would happen.

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  • I hate KQ7's art style. Is there any workers who worked on it will admit that they hated it as well? I know the game critics have given it a poor grade with the art.

  • @Leplaya said: Icedan, what I am saying regardless if this king's quest title is being done in either 2D or 3D it would probably good anyways. Besides I could name a whole bunch of video games that are 2D as well as cel-shaded video games(if your counting those games). Besides, am I the only one who dislikes how the 7th King's quest game had animation similar to likeness of Disney as well as Don Bluth? I always imagined if they were going to do a 2D game of King's quest they do their own style for it.

    Who knows, maybe if the first episode does well enough Telltale might consider the idea for it.

    Cel-shaded still looks 3D.

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    OMA

    @MusicallyInspired said: THIS. King's Quest was always about innovating new technology and, failing that, pushing the boundaries of technologies that already existed.

    Most people who talks about retro games always say that graphics doesn't matter and all, but back in the time most people cared a lot about the graphics in games, since great looking games weren't as common as today, and even sometimes (wrongly) equated good graphics = good game.

    In fact, I think point and click adventure games in the 90s were so popular mainly because of their graphics. Adventure games were the ones with the best graphics of all genres (unlike now), so that was one of the most important factors as to why they sold so much at that time. Of course good stories also helped a lot, but I think it wasn't the most important factor.

  • Yeah. Adventures were the better looking AAA blockbuster games in those days. Even over FPS's.

  • @OMA said: Most people who talks about retro games always say that graphics doesn't matter and all, but back in the time most people cared a lot about the graphics in games, since great looking games weren't as common as today, and even sometimes (wrongly) equated good graphics = good game.

    In fact, I think point and click adventure games in the 90s were so popular mainly because of their graphics. Adventure games were the ones with the best graphics of all genres (unlike now), so that was one of the most important factors as to why they sold so much at that time. Of course good stories also helped a lot, but I think it wasn't the most important factor.

    @OMA said: Yeah. Adventures were the better looking AAA blockbuster games in those days. Even over FPS's.

    Yep, absolutely right. Great post OMA. I've been planning for a while now to write a blog post going into more detail about basically what you guys said here. Sierra and other adventure games were THE games you used to show off your new 86/286/486/Pentium. The people who insist that "characters" and "story" were all the genre ever had and needed to be successful have no idea what they're talking about.

    You would never accept a new FPS with Halo 1 graphics, or a new GTA game with the PS2 graphics engine. So why can adventure games get away with it?

    As for 2D - other genres do still use 2D, and in fact there's been a resurgence of 2D sidescrollers this generation. However, this does not mean that you can keep making games with 1991 King's Quest graphics and gameplay and expect to be relevant. The better 2D games generally have innovative new mechanics. Braid, Limbo, Trine, the Nintendo sidescrollers, etc., all bring something new to the table. We're not playing dozens of new clones of Super Mario World.

  • @JuntMonkey said: You would never accept a new FPS with Halo 1 graphics, or a new GTA game with the PS2 graphics engine. So why can adventure games get away with it?

    Because the market for adventure games is smaller than for FPS games, and adventure game makers don't want to further reduce their potential customer base by cutting out those with older hardware.

    While I, too, would love to play adventure games with state-of-the-art 3D graphics, I just can't get worked up about the fact that doesn't happen because I think adventure games work with any number of graphics styles. I'm glad there are still small companies that make 2D adventure games. And I'm glad there are game companies, like Telltale, who are making adventure games with 3D graphics.

    What I appreciate more than the technical aspects of graphics is how artistic they are, whether 2D, 3D, or something in between. I hope that Telltale comes up with an artistic style that is both unique and fitting of KQ. I fully expect it to be 3D (but I wouldn't complain if it was 2D or 2D-looking ;) ). I believe they're more than capable of this, if they choose to devote their creative time and attention to it.

  • @JuntMonkey said: You would never accept a new FPS with Halo 1 graphics, or a new GTA game with the PS2 graphics engine. So why can adventure games get away with it?

    I would. That's when 3D-graphics finally got good enough to no longer hurt my eyes (I did not like 3D for years because the graphics really did hurt my eyes). And I am not a graphic whore. The important thing is that the game is good. Have you ever turned everything off in Oblivion that is eyecandy? I have. I have seen how ugly this game can get underneath all the effects and without grass and trees. And it was still a really good game. Even for the 70 hours I played it like that.

    But that doesn't mean that everyone would accept that nowadays.

  • @thom-22 said: Because the market for adventure games is smaller than for FPS games, and adventure game makers don't want to further reduce their potential customer base by cutting out those with older hardware.


    That, and also adventure games being somewhat of a niche genre, meaning their budgets are smaller than big, mainstream titles.

    But whatever the reasons are, adventure games using 3D graphics these days always tend to look much less impressive than mainstream titles, and as such - I'm not a big fan of it.

    Maybe if they could have 3D graphics rivalling those of really nice looking, modern games in other genres... then I'd be more accepting of it.

    But the way things are, I really don't think 3D graphics in adventure games can rival really nice looking 2D backgrounds.

    Of course this doesn't mean the game in question can't be highly enjoyable if it's great in other aspects, but I do think I'd enjoy many games more if they had richly detailed 2D backgrounds rather than mediocre 3D.
    Not because I'm a graphics whore, but because I think the way an adventure game looks can greatly affect how immersive it feels.
    And of course I'm not talking about 'technically' impressive graphics, I mean the artistic direction in general... and I feel 2D allows for more artistic and expressive graphics than mediocre 3D does, generally speaking.

    The one thing about 3D graphics, which applies to mediocre 3D as well, is that it does allow for more freedom when it comes to framing shots, and makes it easier to create a somewhat dynamic world.
    But personally I don't feel this is necessary at all to create a great atmosphere, and I certainly don't think it's worth the cost of having mediocre 3D instead of great looking 2D backdrops.
    But this is of course highly subjective, depending on how important you feel these things are.
    Though I do think these are valid points and I can see how for many people, this might very well be important enough to prefer 3D graphics, even when they're quite mediocre.

  • @Armakuni said: But whatever the reasons are, adventure games using 3D graphics these days always tend to look much less impressive than mainstream titles, and as such - I'm not a big fan of it.

    Maybe if they could have 3D graphics rivalling those of really nice looking, modern games in other genres... then I'd be more accepting of it.

    I have heard similar argument often and it always surprises me. Several times it has happened that I play some adventure game and I really like it's graphics and animation, and then I read from reviews and forums that this game is so ugly and outdated that watching it makes your eyes bleed. But like they say the beauty is in the eye of the beholder and there are plenty of mainstream games which I dislike because of their graphic style.

  • @thom-22 said: Because the market for adventure games is smaller than for FPS games, and adventure game makers don't want to further reduce their potential customer base by cutting out those with older hardware.

    Yea this is one of the arguments people make to defend mediocre graphics in adventure games, but I don't think it's accurate. The adventure game market is small because the games are mediocre with bad graphics, not the other way around. Sierra spent a ton on Phantasmagoria and it was their biggest selling adventure game ever because of the graphics, at a time when the genre was fading. Console RPGs in the U.S. had been a small market, until the expensive-to-make FF7 came around with its gorgeous (at the time) graphics and changed everything. Heavy Rain sold like hot cakes. Do you think the quick-time events are what makes that game popular? No. If they beefed up the adventure game elements such as the investigations and toned down QTEs, I doubt there would have been much less sales, if at all. So there you'd have a successful mainstream adventure game.

    As I've said, if somebody makes a new Leisure Suit Larry game as a pure adventure with graphics on par with Heavy Rain, it will be a massive seller. I'm sure new IPs would sell as well if they were any good.

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