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Star Trek... the Next Thread

posted by BagginsKQ on - last edited - Viewed by 2.7K users

**IRISHMILE EDIT** ok here is your Star Trek thread instead of talking about it on the Kings Quest section.. Enjoy.. we will now return to your previous conversation.............
** END IRISHMILE EDIT**

I'd surely like to ignore the last Star Trek movie (what kind of writer destroys "Romulus and Remus" in an offscreen/minor incident, rather than focusing on it as a major movie in its own right/Why ignore 60 years of Star Trek time travel mechanics? I.E. if you change time, your previous timeline ceases to exist/paradox created, I.E. City on the Edge of Forever (Original Series), Yesterday's Enterprise (TNG) or Past Tense on DS9, etc, thus the need for Temporal Prime Directives, and an agency that monitors for changes in the timeline?)

http://www.tunequest.org/star-trek-2009-permanency/20090604/

...or the last episode of Enterprise...

Oh well... unfortunately all future Star Trek shows and movies will take those into account... Nothing I can do about it...

140 Comments - Linear Discussion: Classic Style
  • So this morning, I had this completely original sudden insight on where the number 72 came from for the number of torpedoes.

    I thought I was headed for certain fame and fortune!

    Alas, someone else already thought of the same thing! Oh well.

    Ride, Captain, ride, upon your mystery ship....

  • @WarpSpeed said: So this morning, I had this completely original sudden insight on where the number 72 came from for the number of torpedoes.

    I thought I was headed for certain fame and fortune!

    Alas, someone else already thought of the same thing! Oh well.

    Ride, Captain, ride, upon your mystery ship....

    ...that's actually from canon. In "Space Seed", there were 72 functional cryo-tubes aside from Khan's.

  • OK, so I rewatched Into Darkness today and... well, correct me if I'm wrong, but is Khan's origins ever actually explained in this movie? Because if it was, I glanced over it. It just...

    This feels very much like a film written SOLELY for fanboys. It does not feel like it's been made for everyone - just those who know the original Wrath of Khan (and, by extension, Space Seed). Because there's so much that isn't actually explained, it feels like it's actually excluding those who aren't versed in Star Trek lore..

    I mean, if I didn't already know who Khan was, then what the hell does the revelation that Cumberbatch is playing him actually mean in terms of the story? Because as far as I can tell, it's absolutely nothing. It comes across as a desperate bid to make the film appeal to the nostalgic fans while giving nothing to new ones.

    The whole film kind of feels like that. Really annoying.

  • The local Barnes and Noble was playing the movie in full on loop today. I thought it was an interesting choice, to say the least, and felt bad for the guy working at the counter adjacent to it to have to watch the movie (hell, it could be any movie) four-five times a day. Ah well.

    I thought it was fun. I liked that they mentioned Mudd in it. I'm glad they got rid of most of the complicated and boring plot from Wrath of Khan and gave it more action setpieces.

  • @Darth Marsden said: I mean, if I didn't already know who Khan was, then what the hell does the revelation that Cumberbatch is playing him actually mean in terms of the story? Because as far as I can tell, it's absolutely nothing. It comes across as a desperate bid to make the film appeal to the nostalgic fans while giving nothing to new ones.

    I think the only thing the movie really expects you to know in advance is that Kahn is a bad guy from old Star Trek. Anybody who has seen the title of Star Trek II or the clip of Kirk screaming is basically up to speed.

  • It's a common complaint that Hollywood has run out of new ideas for movies. After this one, it appears it has also run out of new ideas for Star Trek movies.

    Khan doesn't have enough backstory in this movie alone, but I can see why they wouldn't want to include much of it, given that everyone already knew who he was, so why waste time?

    Maybe they'll come up with something completely new that can be fully explained in the next movie. (Anybody believe that?)

  • Honestly, I think the movie would have been a bazillion times better if the writers sat down for five minutes and actually thought about what they were writing. There was absolutely no reason why Khan had to be the bad guy. None. There was nothing that he did that was something only Khan could have done, and they even excluded some Khan-like things that could have happened in exchange for spectacle. I think I would have liked the movie a lot more if it was some random new bad guy. His inclusion was purely fanservice.

    The beginning was terrible. Irredeemable. There's no reason they had to go down to the planet, no reason the Enterprise had to hide under the ocean, no reason why Spock had to go down with the bomb, no reason they had to misuse the term "cold fusion" to come up with an explanation for how they were stopping the volcano. First of all, it wouldn't have worked. Okay, so you freeze the top of the volcano. Guess what? You've still got the magma underneath building up pressure. So instead of having an eruption from the top of the volcano, you're going to have an unpredictable one from the side. Way to go in destroying everyone.

    Picard dealt with a mega volcano that was threatening to destroy a planet once. You know what he did? He scanned the planet, located another place nearby where the magma was close to the surface and blasted the area from outer space. This released the pressure from the magma in a controlled fashion, preventing a volcanic eruption, saving everyone without violating any Starfleet regulations or straining the audience's suspension of disbelief.

    But they couldn't do that in Star Trek Into Darkness because they're all about spectacle. They want explosions and don't care about the reason for the explosions making sense. They don't even care about using real scientific terms in wrong applications (the original Star Trek did. They changed the guns from lasers to phasers because someone actually invented a laser and it didn't do what they wanted the phasers to do).

    They also never really explained why Khan put all his buddies into the missiles. I mean, he's supposed to be a genius so there must have been a reason... but it's never explained what, exactly he intended to do with them once they were attached to highly explosive devices. I mean, he couldn't have predicted that they'd be accidentally put on the ship that would be sent after him and even then, there was no assurance that he'd be able to get them out of there. And even then, he didn't have any way to unfreeze them, especially since he blew up the place where he had been unfrozen. It just seems kinda like he wasn't really thinking things through on this one.

    I already mentioned the injecting the tribble with Khan's blood, but I'll bring it up again. This doesn't make sense why Dr. McCoy would inject his entire sample into a dead tribble. Sure, maybe he wanted to test the regenerative effects, but why a tribble? Surely, it would be easier to try a small sample on a better model organism, like maybe drosophilia or c. elegans, where he wouldn't have to use his entire sample on the first thing he tried. Any good scientist knows that you shouldn't waste your whole sample on one test because the first test almost never works. But no, they had to use a tribble because it was a nod to the fans. Didn't matter that it didn't make sense, they had to add it in. And he had to use the whole sample so that Spock could go punch Khan a bunch.

    And nobody seems to have bothered to tell McCoy that all the other frozen people were superpeople with magic blood as well. I mean, when I was watching and the tribble came back to life, and McCoy asked someone to take a guy out of one of the cryogenic tubes, I was almost certain they were going to nab a blood sample from the random dude. But no, they decided to freeze Kirk instead. Because that makes a lot of sense. At the beginning, McCoy specifically mentioned that he didn't think they could unfreeze any of the people safely... and then he goes ahead and freezes Kirk.

    I could go on, but I'm starting to see red. It's okay to like this movie, but it's not okay to try to pretend that this stuff makes any sense whatsoever or has some deep meaning behind it other than "fanboys have money".

  • @Alcoremortis said:
    I already mentioned the injecting the tribble with Khan's blood, but I'll bring it up again. This doesn't make sense why Dr. McCoy would inject his entire sample into a dead tribble. Sure, maybe he wanted to test the regenerative effects, but why a tribble? Surely, it would be easier to try a small sample on a better model organism, like maybe drosophilia or c. elegans, where he wouldn't have to use his entire sample on the first thing he tried. Any good scientist knows that you shouldn't waste your whole sample on one test because the first test almost never works. But no, they had to use a tribble because it was a nod to the fans. Didn't matter that it didn't make sense, they had to add it in. And he had to use the whole sample so that Spock could go punch Khan a bunch.

    ...

    I could go on, but I'm starting to see red. It's okay to like this movie, but it's not okay to try to pretend that this stuff makes any sense whatsoever or has some deep meaning behind it other than "fanboys have money".


    I don't know why you're giving Star Trek so much credit. Your assessment makes it look way smarter than it actually is.

    On the Tribble issue, you don't even need to check the science to realize this movie is being so dumb that an intelligent person can't walk out of the theater with the idea that this was anything other than an idiotic waste of time made expressly for morons. You just have to look at the narrative inconsistencies and how they are outright ignored for the sake of a broad reference. After all, the entire POINT of Tribbles, in their first and most iconic appearance, was that having ONE alive on board was a really, really big problem, because they reproduced asexually very, very fast. If McCoy had even the SLIGHTEST idea of what injecting that sample might do, he sure as hell shouldn't have used his sample on the ONE dead thing in the ship that would be the most inconvenient to have alive.

    And on the fanboy issue, ha! You're acting as though Paramount had a somewhat niche group in mind!

    Kahn and Tribbles, these things show up but are poorly portrayed. Why? Because Paramount is painting with the widest brush possible. The person this movie is made for are the people who have the most base-level understanding of Star Trek as a cultural idea, absorbing a rough concept of what Kahn and Tribbles are through the wider culture. These people don't care about these things or how they're portrayed, they just like to see things that they recognize. This is why they don't have to actually function correctly, this is why you don't need functioning knowledge of the characters or the world in order to follow the events, because what we have aren't really "characters" so much as rough outlines of characters that kind of sort of match up to the fuzzy memories of the audience member that maybe saw Wrath of Kahn once on TV a decade ago and has been kept fresh on the iconic scenes from that film by pop culture.

  • Now, if I was a BIG Star Trek fan, I'd go for this...

    anyone see that "Federation: the First 150 Years" history book that came out a year or so ago? £75, and you got the hardback book in a sort of pedestal which spoke a recorded message from Admiral Sulu. Well, Titan are bringing out a somewhat cheaper edition in a month or so, costing closer to twenty quid.

    Well.

    Amazon have a number of sellers offering teh original bulky expensive version for over a thousand quid. Or you could just buy it from Amazon themselves for a third of the original price. I think the difference between the two editions' selling prices is about a tenner.

    Fortunately for my bank balance, I'm *not* a big Star Trek fan.....

  • Well, not movie-related, but yesterday I went to a panel with John De Lancie, Micheal Dorn, and Marina Sirtis. And today... George Takei.

    Oh myyy...

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