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    Darth Marsden Moderator

    Agent Coulson is very widely liked. Bringing him back doesn't show a lack of backbone. It shows that they respond to what people want. It also encourages people to watch the show - not that they needed encouragement, mind...

  • Some would say that succumbing to fan pressure would show a lack of backbone.

    However, I have no objection to him not having have died in the first place or coming back to life if there is a legitimate reason for him to do so that furthers the plot. If he just comes back because people want him to... I'd rather not have that.

    But I do love the idea of Fury just flat out lying. That is a good reason for Coulson to be alive... and pissed that his Captain America cards are now covered in blood.

  • @Darth Marsden said: Agent Coulson is very widely liked. Bringing him back doesn't show a lack of backbone. It shows that they respond to what people want. It also encourages people to watch the show - not that they needed encouragement, mind...



    That's EXACTLY why they have no backbone, they caved in to fan pressure.

    I like Coulson too. I didn't want him to die, but killing off a somewhat main character showed that there was some danger and threat to 'the avengers', this decision shows it was all just a flashy light show and that there won't be any tension at all in further movies or shows since we now know all the good guys are invulnerable.

    Thanos and the infinity gauntlet just got a whole lot more boring, send in the hulk and yawn through the rest. Anyone dies it'll just be a life model decoy or some other deus ex machina convenience.

    This has actually discouraged me from watching the show, I'll stick with 'Arrow'.

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    Darth Marsden Moderator

    I want to debate this with you cormoran, but I really don't know how to counter your argument. You seem pretty set in your ways. I'll give it a go anyway though.

    Just because Coulson's death didn't stick this time doesn't mean the next one won't. It took a few deaths in Buffy for one to be permanent - Tara, for example. That came from nowhere and fucked things up but good. But just because one person's been brought back from the dead doesn't mean it'll happen all the time. Though it is a very comic-ish thing to do, so... :p

    Honestly, yeah. Supers won't die. That'd kill off any potential spin-off movies (like the Black Widow/Hawkeye espionage movie they should be making). So it's the normal people they'd kill off, if any. But the audience likes all the normal people, so it doesn't make much sense to kill them off for good. I do see your point. I do.

    But just because no-one's (probably) going to die doesn't mean there won't be any tension. You don't need a fatality to add drama to a story. You just need a well written story with an interesting narrative. High stakes helps, sure, but it doesn't have to mean people die. It could be the threat of people dying. Or it could be the possible annihilation of a planet. Or, hell - Joss has said he wants Avengers 2 to be smaller and more personal. It could be about driving the team apart and going back to fighting each other. That'd make for an interesting film.

    We don't know what the forthcoming films will be about. I'll wait for more info before dismissing them out of hand as you seem to be doing. And if you honestly yawned during the Hulk's fight scenes, then there's something wrong with you. :p
    @Alcoremortis said: Some would say that succumbing to fan pressure would show a lack of backbone.Fair enough. But they've said it wasn't just the fans who wanted him back. Clark Gregg's pretty popular with the team, from what I understand.
    @Alcoremortis said: However, I have no objection to him not having have died in the first place or coming back to life if there is a legitimate reason for him to do so that furthers the plot. If he just comes back because people want him to... I'd rather not have that.

    But I do love the idea of Fury just flat out lying. That is a good reason for Coulson to be alive... and pissed that his Captain America cards are now covered in blood.Agreed. The idea I had is that Fury said Coulson was dead to spur the team on, and the 'bloody' cards were an extension of that. If/when the team find out Coulson's not dead, they're happy to see him and furious at Fury, thus providing conflict for Avengers 2 or whenever.

    Maybe there'll be a scene in the show with Coulson on the phone pestering Fury to buy him a new set to replace the ones he ruined. That'd be a very 'him' thing to do.

  • @cormoran said: That's EXACTLY why they have no backbone, they caved in to fan pressure.

    I like Coulson too. I didn't want him to die, but killing off a somewhat main character showed that there was some danger and threat to 'the avengers', this decision shows it was all just a flashy light show and that there won't be any tension at all in further movies or shows since we now know all the good guys are invulnerable.

    Thanos and the infinity gauntlet just got a whole lot more boring, send in the hulk and yawn through the rest. Anyone dies it'll just be a life model decoy or some other deus ex machina convenience.

    This has actually discouraged me from watching the show, I'll stick with 'Arrow'.



    I think it really depends on the reason why they do it. If there's a good reason, plotwise, then I'm totally okay with it.

    In addition, there doesn't necessarily need to be physical danger to the main character(s) of comic/show/movie for there to be tension. The tension can come instead from the character's self destructive habits (such as Tony Stark's alcoholism) or mental instability (Banner... just Banner). Whedon has already mentioned that the next movie will get more personal, which leads me to believe that the danger won't be so much a physical threat as something more insidious that plays on their insecurities to tear the team down again.

    And if that's not how the next movie goes, I'm totally writing a fanfiction with a villain who takes them apart piece by piece because that sounds like the sort of thing I'd like to read.

  • @cormoran said: That's EXACTLY why they have no backbone, they caved in to fan pressure.



    How did they cave to fan pressure? I don't know about you guys, but I sure haven't seen forums up in arms that Coulson died and demanding that he be put on the SHIELD TV show. I think the team behind it recognizes that Coulson is the face of SHIELD to a lot of people now and having him in the series is the best way to tie everything together without paying Samuel L Jackson exorbitant amounts to guest star once and a while.

  • @Shadowknight1 said: How did they cave to fan pressure? I don't know about you guys, but I sure haven't seen forums up in arms that Coulson died and demanding that he be put on the SHIELD TV show. I think the team behind it recognizes that Coulson is the face of SHIELD to a lot of people now and having him in the series is the best way to tie everything together without paying Samuel L Jackson exorbitant amounts to guest star once and a while.



    You may want to check IMDB, it was rife with save coulson threads when avengers came out.

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    Darth Marsden Moderator

    @cormoran said: You may want to check IMDB, it was rife with save coulson threads when avengers came out.

    That's just fans for you. They'll demand anything on the internet. Even a reboot of a crappy 90s CGI cartoon.

  • This makes me happy. So, so happy.

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    Darth Marsden Moderator

    As happy as your avatar? 'cause that's how happy it makes me.

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