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So Mr. Whitta what do you have against "Johns"?

posted by NeonBlade on - last edited - Viewed by 1.2K users

I think everyone over the age of 10 knows what a John is. It's the clientele of Prostitutes.

This has to do with the character Logan, and while he is a divisive character in a harsh environment; I don't understand some reactions on the forum.

It seems most people misconstrue prostitution for rape. I am not condoning his actions or condemning Molly's.

I have said if this scenario had occurred outside of the Zombie apocalypse. Where Molly's sister was substituted for a child, or infact, it could still be her sister in this scenario, and we exchange the insulin for money.

Molly's child/sister is at home and the food in the cupboard is dwindling and Molly chooses to prostitute herself for money to buy food to bring home to said child/younger sister. How is this a demonstrable act on Logan's part or Molly's part.

If the "John" said. I'm sorry my wife and I are reconciling and I can't do this anymore, and the child starves to death, would the prostitute find the man and stab him for not having sex with her any longer and giving her his income? Then smack his dead body around?

I understand Molly's frustration at the situation, but she could not realistically expect Logan to give away the medicine, defy a lunatic who runs the camp and I am 100% sure Molly would have been the one that propositioned him.

Since Logan could care less if Molly's sister lives or dies, the ball is in her court to make an arrangement suitable enough for him to risk parting with the medicine.

It is Molly who has something to gain, so being a resourceful woman she would tap into primal urges and use the oldest profession in the world to gain the necessities for her loved one.

I know in such short episodes it is difficult to flesh out controversial themes; and sometimes I suppose the quickest and dirtiest way to handle this to use a heavy handed approach, using emotional hair triggers to pull reactions from the easily offended and naive is a writing strategy for juvenile texts, but effective in its own way. It allows those with more liberal views to see Logan as some rape craving monster.

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  • @NeonBlade said: I think everyone over the age of 10 knows what a John is. It's the clientele of Prostitutes.


    If the "John" said. I'm sorry my wife and I are reconciling and I can't do this anymore, and the child starves to death, would the prostitute find the man and stab him for not having sex with her any longer and giving her his income? Then smack his dead body around?


    I would strongly advise against that.

    To the topic, the first I've heard about Logan's behaviour is in this thread... So take that for what you will.

  • Thanks to you now I finally know what a "John" is.


    I agree with you. Logan didn't come across as a rapist, but I think he definitely took advantage of the fact that Molly needed the insuline, so I kinda understand why she went nuts and mutilated his body. I think it was his proposal, rather than hers, but we'll never know.

  • Oh Molly mutilating his corpse is perfectly justifyable. No matter who instigated the propostion. He's still a pig for accepting such terms and then also for cutting her off the way he did.

  • I agree. Dr. Jerk definitely got what he deserved.

  • @NeonBlade said: I have said if this scenario had occurred outside of the Zombie apocalypse. Where Molly's sister was substituted for a child, or infact, it could still be her sister in this scenario, and we exchange the insulin for money.

    Molly's child/sister is at home and the food in the cupboard is dwindling and Molly chooses to prostitute herself for money to buy food to bring home to said child/younger sister. How is this a demonstrable act on Logan's part or Molly's part.

    If the "John" said. I'm sorry my wife and I are reconciling and I can't do this anymore, and the child starves to death, would the prostitute find the man and stab him for not having sex with her any longer and giving her his income? Then smack his dead body around?

    This, to me, is an extremely poor analogy and if that's the way you think about it then i'm not surprised you're so confused.

    Outside of the zombie apocalypse we have schooling that prepares us to be able to get jobs that don't include sex for money. Unless you're some nut whose been preparing for the end times you havent exactly been taught the skills necessary to be able to barter a needed skillset for illicit goods in that situation. This comes down to being lucky enough to have had training in something that just so happens to also be valuable in the zombie apocalypse (and applicable to that specific situation).

    The John in your analogy is called a John for good reason, the prostitute knows nothing about him or his situation and he knows nothing about her and her situation. All he's doing is paying for sex, for all he knows she could head on home to a luxury apartment and live the good life off her earnings, or not, it's not something he's privvy to. The doctor however, knows that he has something she absolutely needs. He's in a position of power and he can set the asking price which isn't how it goes in the analogy, where the price is set by the prostitute.

    In your analogy you have a conversation between the John and the prostitute that ends the whole thing, that conversation wouldn't happen, the John simply wouldn't come back and another John would fill his place, it wouldn't be such a big deal for the prostitute, she can get that money from other Johns.

    Molly only had that doctor to turn to, he took advantage of the situation for his own carnal desires. He made it her only choice, that's why belting the shit out of his zombie arse would make her feel good.

    Further more, Molly didn't kill the doctor, she just smashed up his zombie form. That's quite different to your analogy where the prostitute both stabs the John to death then beats on his corpse. One is murder, the other is something that you'll be expected to do every now and then for survival anyway.

    @NeonBlade said: I understand Molly's frustration at the situation, but she could not realistically expect Logan to give away the medicine, defy a lunatic who runs the camp and I am 100% sure Molly would have been the one that propositioned him.

    You bet your arse he could have just given her the insulin. He's a doctor, he has a skillset thats invaluable to the whole community, he'd get little more than a slap on the wrist. There's no way they'd throw him out or punish him enough that he'd want to leave.

    I also disagree that the leader was a lunatic. Aside from no kids, which shows a lack of longterm planning, he actually had a pretty good idea going in preparing that community for the lower standard of health the lack of proper modern medicine would bring them and how they would inevitably have to handle it anyway as their pre apocalypse medical supplies dissapear.

  • Maybe the doctor betrayed Molly and gave up the sister to prevent anyone finding out about his little deal? It's never clear how they were able to find her sister. Maybe she suspected the doctor from ratting out her sister?

    Also, a doctor trading out medicine for 'favors' isn't quite the same as a 'John'.

  • @oraclekun said: Maybe the doctor betrayed Molly and gave up the sister to prevent anyone finding out about his little deal? It's never clear how they were able to find her sister. Maybe she suspected the doctor from ratting out her sister?

    Also, a doctor trading out medicine for 'favors' isn't quite the same as a 'John'.

    The sister had Diabetes so once the doctor decided he had to cut off their arrangement she would not be getting the medicine she needed to hide the symptoms. Thus exposing her "disease" to everyone and earning her a one way trip back out into the zombie infested world.

    As far as the OP topic if you really don't see the immorality that was going on in that situation remind me if I ever meet you during a ZA not to put you in charge of handing out any major supplies. 'cause with that attitude I have a feeling you would be the first to take advantage of the situation like the doctor did.

  • I didn't say it wasn't immoral. I don't condone or condemn them. We truly have no way of knowing who propositioned who, but in my mind Molly seemed desperate enough to be the one that instigated the transaction; and I am yet to here a compelling reason why Logan who is just an underling should risk expulsion from the group to simply hand over the insulin. When he cut off the supply he was genuinely worried because he said Oberson was starting to notice. He wouldn't have said so if he wasn't fearful of the man in powers actions...

    It is simply puppy and rainbows and hippy thinking he should just give her the insulin. If I were Logan in the situation I would not have given her either, not even at the proposition of sex. I would have flat out refused to allow Molly to prostitute herself.

  • I think the idea was she was pissed for being forced to have sex in exchange for life saving medicine because the guy was horny and cold hearted.

    Also, your analogy is terrible.

  • If only the super healthy were allowed to live in Crawford then what use did they have for the insulin? It wasn't anything Logan could use for any other purpose (if you can think of a realistic alternative use please let me know) so he could have palmed the lot of it off on Molly, and make up an excuse for it going missing, as mentioned above he would be too valuable to kill or banish and as it was not a useful drug no real harm in it disappearing.

    Instead Logan decided to use what power he had over Molly to blackmail her into sex for insulin. He then got paniky when others started snooping and basically sentenced Molly's sister to death.

    Yeah I think that deserves a post-dead beating.

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