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The Rational Discussion of the Negatives and Positives of Lilly and Kenny

posted by Jexx21 on - Viewed by 5.2K users

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So, the personalities of these characters and how they act towards you is determinant based on how you treat them, especially with how you handle situations with Kenny. The situations involving these two characters basically define the tone of the story for the entire game.

Both Lilly and Kenny are good people who make bad choices:

Lilly didn't want to let people come into the drug store because it was a safety risk, knowing that they would most likely die if they weren't led into the drug store. Lilly didn't want to let Ben and his teacher into the Motor Inn camp because she didn't want to have to support more people, even though she knew they would most likely die if they didn't let them in. Lilly wanted to kick Ben out for doing what he thought was right and would protect them. Lilly wanted to shoot Ben just because she thought he was lying and untrustworthy. Lilly shot Carly because she defended Ben, got on Lilly's nerves, and possibly because she was jealous of how "close" it seemed that Lee and Carly were getting (I haven't played through the game with Carly alive past Ep1 so I don't know about that last one).

Kenny killed Larry when it was possible that he was still alive. Kenny wanted to steal from a random persons car. Kenny wanted to let a girl suffer to buy more time. Kenny acts like a jerk towards Lee if Lee didn't kill Larry with him, to the extent that it's possible that Kenny wouldn't save Lee if Lee needed help (determinant). Kenny wanted to leave Lilly out on the road ("Leaving someone out on the road alone is the same as murder!") Kenny developed a bad attitude when I feel like is perfectly summed up in this conversation about Molly: "She saved your life." "Yea, well, what has she done for me lately?" (this attitude may be determinant, I am not sure, I haven't gone through a play-through where I killed Larry with Kenny yet) Kenny wanted Lee to drop and kill Ben.

Lily and Kenny both led the group and were looking out for the good of others. Lilly wanted to keep everyone safe, and so did Kenny, they just had different ideas on how to go about it. Lilly was really grateful towards Lee when he offered to find the pharmacy keys and when he did eventually find it. Kenny saved Lee after being punched by Larry even if he didn't have to, and even if you sided with Larry against him. Lilly and Kenny continue to look out for the group into Episode 2, where Lilly is cautious about the St. Johns and just wants to leave for the safety of the group, and Kenny is also suspicious about them, but instead wants to directly confront them and find out what is up. Kenny was still looking out for the group where he killed Larry, and he was looking out for the group when he stole from the car. Lilly also showed caution on stealing from the car, which ultimately was the right call as stealing from the car is what bit them in the ass in Savannah. Lilly and Kenny continue to show concern for the group in Episode 3 and that they want to keep everyone safe. Kenny is still trusting of Lilly, and he does save Lee if he perceives him as a good friend. Kenny continues to want to keep everyone safe, if a bit over-obsessed about his plan about finding a boat, and will go with Lee to save Clementine if you plead with him in relation to family or if he perceives you as always being there for him in a tough situation (he didn't for me, even though I supported him in everything but killing Larry and stealing from the car). If you saved Ben, Kenny ends up showing mercy to Ben after going down to help him and essentially redeems his past actions towards Ben.

They are both wonderful characters with negative and positive aspects towards them. They are both good people at heart, but they have made some bad calls. I think that they are both well-loved by the fanbase and that they will both appear in Season 2.

For some reason, I have made previous posts of this nature, but people don't seem to like them, but I just wanted to post something that would talk about both the positive and negative aspects of the characters.

  • There both good characters just people are pretty opinionated on them. So conflict occurs.

  • "people don't seem to like them" . . .

    so lets post another one!!!

    We all know what each character did. We played the game.

  • This thread is doomed. Just like all the other ones.

  • Sooner or later that Lily fan who got banned is going to make ANOTHER account and come on here and ruin the thread. I'd like a rational discussion about Kenny & Lily. Plz?

  • I have a strong feeling that this "rational" conversation will quickly become irrational.

  • A gif that shows what happens when people try to spread their ideas and theories to the public... Alt text

  • Though I sided with Lily in episode 2 - 3, I understand where Kenny comes with all these things; he doesn't pull them out of his ass, he thinks about the group first, which is what makes a good leader. All in all, Lily seemed to have a decent idea on how to lead this group, until, of course, she snapped.

  • Rational Discussion on an internet forum?


  • I'll bite, TC. After all, if this community doesn't eventually succeed at a rational Kenny/Lilly discussion without being at eachother's throats, how are we ever going to grow?

    I'd like to start by saying that I'm not really on Team Kenny or Team Lilly.

    Lilly is a good leader, but she's a little overly authoritarian and sometimes too uncaring about people outside the group. I mean, I understand wanting to protect your people, but leaving Lee and Clem out in the street to be killed by zombies? That's harsh. However she's extremely good at taking shit from people when they disagree with her, which is really valuable in a leader.

    Lilly's more justified in trying to turn away Ben and company from the Motor Inn, since the group is starving and more people will directly threaten them. I'd say up to this point she's still quite a good leader, but she starts to go downhill when she notices the missing medical supplies. She lets her paranoia get the best of her and becomes unstable. Even if she was right about Ben stealing supplies, there's no reason to wave a gun in his face RIGHT THERE; I mean, have a freaking discussion about it. A leader should talk it through and determine a course of action, and not put themselves in a situation where their finger slips and kills someone.

    With Kenny, I really don't like how you need to basically support him 100% to make him have Lee's back. It's a group; everyone should look out for eachother no matter what. I saved Duck, I fed Kenny's family, and he still hesitated when Lee was threatened in Episode 2. I'd say that's Kenny's worst quality; he lets his loyalty be undermined by the smallest thing, even if you supported him in much more important ways. With the Larry situation he should acknowledge that Lee disagrees with him on a moral level, and he of all people should understand that you can't hold a man's morals against him even if you disagree.

    Kenny's good qualities involve the fact that he has good instincts for group preservation. Whenever someone is in danger of turning he's always the first to suggest removing the threat, which is really the best course of action if you want to keep your group alive. He's also practical and solution-focused, even when horribly depressed. The boat was a fairly good idea even if it didn't pan out. And, of course, Kenny's best qualities of all come to light if you bring Ben along for Episode 5. He comes to understand a complete enemy's point of view and puts himself in harm's way to grant Ben a merciful death... And that's self-sacrifice, one of the most admirable human traits.

    They're both very deep and very flawed characters, and I wish Lilly was around to get more character development so we could see if she would've got a kickass redemption moment like Kenny did. They definitely both have their strong points as well, and are good leaders in separate ways.

  • I can't think of ONE positive thing about Pussy. He is the main reason the group fell apart! Lilly, on the other hand at least had some redeeming qualities about her. She should have shot Pussy instead, he is the reason she went crazy...

    • If there is anyone to blame for having the group fall apart, it's Ben (Ben fucks everything up... I love him). Lilly and Kenny are both victims of the group falling apart.

    • I'm confused as to why crying over your Wife & Son dying is being a pussy?

      • I listed 10 reasons why I think he is a Pussy on another thread.

        10 reasons why Pussy is a pussy:

        1. He does nothing to help Shawn.

        2. He smashes a guy's head in with a salt lick despite not knowing weather he's going to turn or not.

        3. When his son gets bitten, he ignores it. Hypocrite. Why didn't the Pussy throw a salt lick on Duck's head, huh?

        4. He only cares about himself and calls Clem and Lee's relationship "sham". I bet he would kill for that "sham" now that his entire family is dead. LMAO.

        5. He leaves duck to turn because he is too big of a Pussy to shoot him.

        6. He cries like a little bitch.

        7. He refuses to help Lee in finding Clem because he disagreed with him a few times. Telling the Pussy to go fuck himself was the highlight of Season 1.

        8. He gets his ass kicked by a bunch of 70 year old cancer survivors.

        9. His redneck voice is annoying as hell.

        10. He looks like shit.

        • He does questionable things, but he doesn't pull them out of his ass: he does most of them for the good of the group. His son comes first, though he ran from Shawn and ultimately let him die on his own accord; that was his fault. The Larry situation is questionable but understandable: If he WAS going to turn (Not saying I agreed, I tried to save him) they would have been screwed. The reason he found it so hard to accept Duck's fate is because of the Five Stages of Grief: Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression, and Acceptance.. He was going through Denial, then Anger, then Bargaining in the third episode, then Depression and Acceptance in 4 - 5. He lost his wife and son, his entire family, right before his eyes; of course he's going to break down in tears. You can't yell at him for refusing to help Clem; none of them help if you hide the bite, and it's easy to convince him to help you + He does have a point: If he was in your shoes and asking you for help, would you be there for him? It's a reasonable question. He got his ass kicked by cancer patients with GUNS. Rednecks are awesome. He has a Godly Mustache.

          • He never even interacted with Clem so I don't see the point of him returning in S2.

            • Not that we have seen at least. Either way, Kenny has somehow affected her with his actions, for better or for worse.

              EDIT: actually, he talks about her and you in Episode one.

            • We don't see her interacting with Kenny, you do realize there was over three months worth of time in the story we didn't see, right? There are several things that suggest that Kenny and clem were close.

              • Those three months probably have some bonding moments between all of the characters that we've never seen.

                • Exactly, but in the case of Kenny bonding with clem, there are some things to support that they are fairly close.

                  • I would imagine that Lilly and Clem were as close as Kenny and Clem.

                    I mean, there seems like there may have been some form of romantic connection between Lee and Lilly, or at least she may have wanted one.

                    Getting close to the girl that Lee perceives as a daughter can be a good way to foster that..

                    • I never saw any romantic relationship between Lee and Lilly, but that's because in my game Lilly pretty much despised Lee.

                      • I dunno, I'm talking about the three month period. In the first episode, Lilly acts really grateful towards Lee when he decides to help with the pharmacy door. I didn't save Carley, so I could definitely see Lilly developing some feelings for Lee.

                        • Oh, when you save Carley, she ignores the fights between Lilly and Kenny and just decides to support Lee, and tells him that he'd be a great leader, and that he's a good man. In episode 3, she encourages Lee to tell everyone about his past, and after just going around the Motor Inn, her and Lee talk and she kisses him on the cheek.

                          And then Lilly kills her in cold blood. So I'm kind of hoping that she died. I don't think it happened, but I'm just hoping it did.

        • I see no reason to argue with you, as you clearly have shown that you don't really care about reason or logical conversation within just a couple of comments.

          1. Everyone has lapses in courage. Lilly does in the very same episode, when despite being the leader, she cares only for her father when the drug store is attacked. Just liked Kenny only cared for Duck when Shawn needed his help.
          2. This doesn't make him a pussy, it makes him pragmatic. Not knowing if he is dead or not is a valid reason to smash his head in when there's a chance he could become a walker.
          3. He spent so long, and sacrificed so much to protect his family that he couldn't deal with it when he failed. Lilly did the same thing. She says "This is about survival" at the start of Episode 2. When her father has a heart attack later that day, suddenly it's not about survival. If it were, she'd have helped Kenny with that salt lick herself.
          4. It's just something that comes out while he's taking out his pent up anger and frustration out on Lee. His son is dying. He's angry, he's sad, he feels helpless. You can't expect him to be rational.
          5. It's his son. He's being asked to shoot his son in the face immediately after his wife committed suicide in front of him. That's not being a pussy, that's being a father who can't bring himself to kill his own son.
          6. He just lost his entire family. I think he's earned the right to cry.
          7. Look at it from his perspective. He lost his entire family, and the boat was the only thing keeping him going. He finally has the boat, it's ready to go out to sea, when someone that he might not have ever been there for him needs his help. Should he really go running around a zombie infested city on a suicide mission? Even though Lee's bitten and if he stays behind, he'll tell Lee that he'll wait for him and let him on the boat despite Lee being bitten. Not saying I agree with him staying, but it's not quite as simple as you think.
          8. They had guns.
          9. People are pussies because their voice sounds a certain way?
          10. People are pussies because you don't like the way they look?
          1. In the same situation i would do the same thing. Help your son or theirs?

          2. You have to think things from Kennys eyes. Being the only father in the group (Asshole larry aside) had his whole family on that farm. he would cut of his hand if he had to save his family.

          3. He was slowly and agonisingly losing the son that he loved. it wasnt a fatal bite and as a result he had to watch it KILL him.

          4. It is a sham. its not a real family. (Not meaning to be mean but speak facts

          5. It seems to me like you did a play through where you made kenny a dick. you realise YOU can do it? but you wouldnt do that would you...Heartless bastard

          6. So do you

          7.I dissagreed with kenny. he came with me and again you did a play through where you where a dick to kenny. he wont be your best freind after you bashed him and wanted to throw his son out with the walkers!

          1. Can i alter your sentence he was beaten by 4 (i think) people with guns

          2. We cant please everyone

          10 So do you

          so you think that its a good idea to insult the whole community of kenny lovers on there thread?

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        • If your ever in a similar situation where your wife and kid die infront of your eyes, you grin at it and not cry a tear.

    • Saying that Kenny is the sole reason that the group fell apart seems a bit much. It was a failure of everyone in the group, to some extent, that led to everything going up in smoke, with the vast majority of the blame falling upon the shoulders of Larry, Kenny, Ben, and, yes, Lilly. Before you judge Kenny so harshly, you should remember that there might not have even been a group if it weren't for him stepping up in Episode 1. HE took charge and saved them there. You should also remember that he will ALWAYS save Lee at the end of episode 1, no matter what, and that he will ALWAYS save Christa/try to save Ben in Episode 5. It's just the middle 3 Episodes where all of his negative traits come into the open, and they ARE pretty serious.

      • Saying that Kenny is the sole reason that the group fell apart seems a bit much.

        He's not the sole reason it fell apart but he is the MAIN reason. Kenny kills Larry in front of his daughter >> Lilly goes crazy >> Lilly shoots Carley in the head because she's mentally unstable after what Pussy did to her father.

        • True, but how much of the blame actually falls on the person who ends up going crazy because of trauma? I'd say most of it.

          I mean, say what you want about Kenny, but when he loses his wife and son he doesn't go crazy and start flinging accusations or waving a gun around. He's depressed, yeah, but he remains focused on a goal for the good of the group.

          You could actually say that he proves to be stronger than Lilly when dealing with really intense emotional turmoil. After his initial depression period he manages to keep his head and cooperate, and that's the most you can ask of someone in their position.

          Kenny is a "pussy" in some ways, yes, as is Lilly. But who wouldn't be occasionally in a zombie apocalypse? That's what makes their characters interesting. If Kenny were some invincible Rambo who wasn't bothered by anything, I wouldn't like his character anywhere near as much.

          • He's depressed, yeah, but he remains focused on a goal for the good of the group.

            Please, he only cares about himself. Clem is the one who finds the boat, yet Pussy thinks it's up to him to decide who's coming because there's not enough room for everyone.

        • Or, you could look at it like this: Lilly snapped and killed Carley and then tried to justify it, and told everyone about Lee's past to divert attention, and if you didn't leave her, she steals the RV. Meanwhile, Kenny probably saved them in the meat locker. The only weapon was the salt lick, which really would have only worked when Larry was down. Larry wasn't breathing and even if they revived him, he was having a heart attack, he'd still die within seconds or minutes.

      • In addition, his negative traits come out in the episode where he's under the most stress/grief/out-right trauma.

        So, he may have a bit of an excuse there.

        • There's not much justification for him leaving Lee under the door simply because he disagreed about the Larry situation. Or, for that matter, not going after Clem because he has a problem with Lee. That's his lowest point right there. I think that Kenny was a good man, but only after he comes to his senses in Episode 5, when Ben blows up on him/he sees the suicide couple. And in Episode 1, of course. Bit I think that his negatives are what make him a great character, and are why he's one of my favorites. He's got plenty of flaws, which makes him human.

    • And that, ladies and gentlemen, is Shaundi.

      Don't get too close to the cage, it bites.

    • Seriously Shaundi when are you gonna get banned you litreally bring nothing positive to the forums like at all.... Calling a man who lost his son and seen his wife blow her brains out in front of him a pussy for crying is vile and disgusting and also offensive to people who have lost people to suicide. You need to leave these forums..... DO NOT MAKE ME HAVE TO GO ALL TYRION ON YOUR ASS!

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