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A Hypothetical Revenge

posted by Myusha on - Viewed by 1.5K users

Episode 3 may offer us the chance to take revenge on Carver and possibly kill him. If this is a choice between killing Carver, or letting him live (possibly with Walkers near)...

Would you have your Clementine kill Carver? Would you spare him? And if you kill Carver or spare him...did you spare the Saint Johns back in the day?

64 Comments
  • I thought this was a spambot when I was opening this. Phew.

    I would probably spare him. I killed the creepy brother with the pitchfork but Clem saw that so I left the other brother.

  • i would kill him. i would think if i let him live he would come back for revenge

    Edit: and by looking at the achievements it looks like clem might get a beating. if carver does it or one of his men, i wound have to think twice about killing him.

  • I'd kill him in cold blood, depending on what he did to hurt the group, or Clem. And yeah, I spared the brothers only because Clem was there. But now i am Clem,. So yeah..

  • I would spare his life. For me, killing just make it worse.

  • I'd spare him, especially if he was seriously wounded and/or surrounded by walkers. My Lee also spared the St. John brothers, they were gonna die anyway.

  • No, I won't which is ironic because I ALWAYS kill BOTH of St.John brothers. It made sense with Lee a convicted criminal who would've done anything to protect Clementine but it doesn't make sense as 11 year old girl. So no. But I guess Kenny will kill him.

    • So is Lee a killer who lets children see his murders if it means protecting them? Or does he want to shield them like Carlos would Sarah? Does this scare your Clementine into not wanting to see anymore people die? Or does this make Clementine think murder is okay, especially if they're 'bad guys'?

      • Well I'm extremely sorry that Clem had to see that but... Cannibalism? Even most of animals don't eat their own so that means that they're way beyond the point to be called human and these assholes made everyone else eat goddamn human flesh plus they killed Mark and are basically one of two reasons Larry is dead (2nd being Kenny). They doomed themselves when they started eating people. And yeah I'm playing Clem like: care about the people she loves, the opposite to those who hurt the people she cares about but I won't as a killer and yes I agree with Clem fearing killing people like of st.j because of bad memories about that and she's still just a kid don't forget that.

  • No, I never played Lee as a killer, and I intend to do the same with Clem. Though it was tempting to kill Danny, Clem was watching, and I figured the walkers would get to him anyways (a worse fate than simply being stabbed with a pitchfork, in my opinion) so I spared him. Unless it was a life-or-death situation, I wouldn't make the decision to kill Carver.

  • I would kill him, obviously to make sure that he doesn't hurt more people.

  • I'd kill him. Clem is older now and she knows what bad guys like this can do. She may be affected by killing him, but she knows it must be done, like her killing the stranger. The greater good is at stake. Unless he is extremely wounded he could very well stalk down the group/Clem and take his revenge, something I'm not about to let happen.

  • I am trying to protect Clem's humanity just like my Lee protected his humanity. I would save Carver if it looked like he was on the edge of death rather than taking advantage of the situation to try to kill him, because he seems to have a code of some sort at least maybe there's some reasoning left in him.

    By that I mean Carver is very eye for an eye plus your fingers, just imagine if you tried to kill him but he survived he would most defiantly come after you crazier possibly killing even more people close to you. If you spare his life in a way he owes you one.

    Also forcing a little girl to kill a crazy man seems pretty psychotic in itself and most likely if you spared him Kenny would shoot him and make sure he was dead with a saltlick since he could throw his humanity away in a blink of an eye.

    • You can't look at it as forcing her to kill him. It's her decision you're just a bystander who initiated it. Also, what if Kenny is dead? What if you're the only one there?

      • I still like to think the actions we have Clem do will have effect on her character at the end of all this especially the actions dealing with humanity like murdering someone in cold blood. But now that I think about it your right having Clem kill someone directly for everyone else probably wont have any effect on her since that was our choice. My Clem though has yet to kill a living person so it would be interesting if you have killed someone directly as Clem and have it effect her mental state good or bad. I doubt the game will ever go that deep though.

        Also there's still the chance of Carver living even if you tried to kill him. Just like in the hostage situation if you told Kenny to shoot him when he had a clear shot at Carver. What if you fail to kill Carver like then and he decides to kill who ever is around you or worse?

        I would only kill Carver in a direct situation of self-defense without consequence of me or someone else's life. Carver's eye for an eye mentality is just to dangerous there's really no win unless its 100% kill like a gun directly pressed to the head. Even at that maybe my Clem is a coward but I still don't want her to kill anyone directly. I hope TTG still gives us that choice. No matter how bad to me all life matters

        • That would definitely be cool. Didn't kill the stranger + kill Carver = she takes it really hard. Did kill the stranger + kill Carver = she takes it moderately hard. Also, I'm not saying it won't affect her at all, just that by us pushing the button it's her making the decision, we aren't forcing her to choose to kill Carver, it's just the way that clementine would view the situation. You know? It's kind of hard to explain.

          I figured the situation entailed he was defeated. Like Andy St John, and it was up to you to either end him or let him live. If the way you see the situation playing out (more like Kenny's situation) then I'd say it's dependant on the situation itself. Probability and all that.

          Well. Your last post is interesting. You wouldn't last long in an apocalypse situation :p (Neither would I, but for different reasons than cowardice(as you said Clem may be) or reverence of life). I feel Clem's life and the lives of the people she is with/cares for come before the life of a maniacal overlord. It's like how I view ruthless dictators, fuck 'em.

          • I wouldn't say I wouldn't last long in the apocalypse just because Im a coward for not wanting to kill Carver. I spared the St. John's bros as Lee but I did strangle the stranger since it was direct self-defense with no negotiation with only 1 way to save Clem.The Carver situation is very different in its self.

            Caver is pretty much eye for an eye and then some. If Kenny never shot in the hostage situation at the ski lodge no one would of died if he just gave himself up. I also dont think Carver would of broke Carlos's fingers if Carlos never spit in his face that did not give him the right to break his fingers though.

            Carver is no doubt a ruthless dictator who gets his power like most dictators from the harm he can cause to the people close to you. If this is the case if you attack and try to kill Carver or kill anyone in his circle and fail to kill him he will take out someone close to you. Basically if Carver is a dictator if you go for carver you'll risk everyone's life on your side. This could also serve as the greater wedge between Kenny (who wants to fight carver) vs. Luke (who just wants to escape from Carver.) The only other safe way to take out a dictator would be to turn all or as many of his people against him and even that is risky. You may lose all the people your trying to protect and care for.

            I doubt they would make his death scenario the same as the St john's scenario and if it is the St. John scenario again why would you kill him when you could just leave him for the walkers? It would be more interesting if they give you chances to kill him with possible repercussions to the people close to you.

            Personally I dont think one simply kills Carver. We may just be forced to work for him if we dont anyone to get hurt. How to solve the Carver situation if he is a dictator? (shrug) how do you solve the situation in North Korea?

            • I wouldn't say you wouldn't last long in the apocalypse because you don't want to kill Carver. I say that because "No matter how bad to me all life matters." The St Johns are a good example. Andy could have scrapped himself up, hunted you down, and shot you in the face. Pre-self-defense-self-defense is the hard to do but necessary actions which, by negating, would get you killed.

              Agreed.

              Agreed.

              I doubt they will make it exactly the same also, that's just the situation I thought we were going with in this hypothetical. Though leaving him for the walkers doesn't mean he would die ( just like in the St Johns scenario)

              • Agreed, Ehh ya that I was pretty risky I admit that and trying to save Larry lol.

                You do have a point stuff like that would get me or someone around me killed.

                If I did let them live and got away without consequence it would of assured to everyone: people in the the group, and the st. johns that you can still survive with your humanity. An even bigger problem that some but not all of the characters realize in the walking dead series is that hope lies in humanity. The only thing people should worry about is grouping up and fighting walkers not each other.

                • Very true. It's just hard to find the balance between pragmatism and morality that will allow survival without transforming you into a monster. It's a damn fine line. And killing Carver/the St Johns is neither here nor there when weighing survivability with morality. If they come back and kill you and everyone else who are trying to hold onto their morality then what have you accomplished? What reason was there to sustain your morals when you're dead?

                  • If they come back and kill you and everyone else who are trying to hold onto their morality then what have you accomplished? What reason was there to sustain your morals when you're dead?

                    But overall they didnt come after and kill everyone because the fact is they couldn't.

                    There's no way after the beat down the one st. John's brother received dazed and near concussion and the other brother being caught in a bear trap that the St john's would of regrouped and gathered the strength to chase after Lee and the others with walkers closing in. They were already incapacitated and set to their own fate.

                    Ill stand foot in mouth if they recovered but Im pretty sure they were screwed.

                    Why would you up and just kill the St. Johns in front of the kids and everyone when you didnt have to? He could Hardly even stand. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vwMgljcg1s

                    • Because what if he came to his senses, got a gun from the house, and followed you? After all he did know where you live. He shows up later, shoots Clem, Kenny, and Carley/Doug before you mow him down. You're left with a man who should have been dead, 2 close friends dead, and the center of your trials and tribulations dead. all because you couldn't end his life or thought he wouldn't be able to shuffle to a safe spot.

                      I don't suspect Danny would have made it, he did have a bear trap on his leg, but we've seen people recover from a lot more than a good beating, with less on the line, in a very short amount of time.

                      • I still disagree he would also have to fight off all those walkers coming in.The fact is he still doesn't chase you at all if you leave him alive. He never really had any hope to try to live. He basically begs you to kill him rather then leave him when he tells you to come back and finish it meaning he had already given up, he would not have come after you.

                        • Lee and the others walked off fairly easily from what we saw. Walking back down the trail they were calm and energized. I don't see why he couldn't arm himself and be fine. In this case chance supports my stance. What could have happened and the repercussions of it. He could have survived, he could have realized his new purpose in life was to destroy the people who destroyed his family, he could have taken vengeance and ended you and your loved ones. But in any case,I guess we'll just agree to disagree, been interesting :)

                          • Ehh well if you think a man having his arms pinned down taking a full on beating to the face that could push a him to near death who then gives up asking you to kill him can conjure up resolve in a split second to run into the house which most likely if he did try to run he would fall over or feel his brain pound with every step, if he could even get to the house and grab a gun while walkers zeroed in on the house then fight his way out saving the few rounds he had for Lee and the others which he would have to Catch up to them and have a shot greater greater than Annie Oakley to kill even one person without missing on the first shot, an Annie Oakley who just came out of a ring side fight with rocky who would possibly need someone to cut their eyes open from the huge welps starting to form on their eyes just to see what their shooting then sure you can agree to disagree but I still see the St. John's bro getting up and catching up to the group more ridiculous then this run on sentence.

                            In his condition he would not even be able to save himself.

                            • Your overly long and rambunctious example proves my point it is possible. Your example plays heavier to your side of the story, it's very bias, so I'll fix a few point you exaggerated. He pulled himself up, he still had strength. His head may hurt, I'm sure it would, but when the realization comes into mind he's about to be eaten alive he may find a bit of spring in his step. Revenge itself is a powerful motivator. There weren't all that many walkers around, avoiding the isn't that hard. As I said, Lee and the group seemingly met little resistance. Your entire Annie Oakley analogy is N/A when you take into account what I said in a previous post, he knew where you lived. It isn't about running himself ragged to catch up, it's about finding you later.

                              In his condition you don't know what he could or could not do.

                              • Bias? Whos really being biased? You pretty much lurk these forms always starting long arguments with people and never let up lol

                                I dont care who the hell you are but if someone pounds your face without you blocking your not going to have any energy left at all let alone know which end is up. You could stand like the St. John brother for a little bit but just like the St. John's brother you would just fall to your knees which he did twice and hunched over barely standing. In a real fight if someone gets to your face like that without you blocking with that many hits with out a ref standing in your dead or you would need serious treatment and help from others to recover. That's a concussion level of a beat down there's no walking that off alone even if you have anger and revenge in you heart. Trained fighters with even more adrenaline pumping that get beat on the head like that dont even move right after a fight. They always need help and support to get around for a bit.

                                The situation is even more dire with walkers closing in. Sorry for making a mockery about you opinion but i still think his survival would be limited and near impossible.

                                • You're being bias. I'm offering an objective view of the situation. Yes i often involve myself with long arguments. I love arguing, it's a great pass time. What of it?

                                  I've been in fights like this, on both sides of it. I can say from personal experience that it is very hard to remain focused and not succumb to the bodies wants of regression and self preservation through not moving, but it's most certainly possible to fight through it, especially (I can assume) when your life is literally on the line. Professional fighters don't need help much of the time, they are offered help to prevent or treat damage.

                                  You don't need to worry about making a mockery of my opinion, it stands strong. Limited and near impossible? Perhaps. But possible, therefore you have the possibility of losing loved ones to a crazed, revenge driven cannibal.

                                  • You pretty much go around doing never ending arguments. Seems like you pretty much feed off assuming your ideas are right. Sounds pretty biased. And us going back and forth calling each other biased pretty much starting to become like kids calling each other babies.

                                    It all depends on how bad you were beat down. I mean I wouldn't know what its like to be on the losing end that badly overpowered to the point where you weren't able to block letting someone get all up in your face. I dont think I could ever let that happen to me. Im too good for that. I wish someone would try to beat me down that bad. Have to stay pretty like pretty boy Floyd. :P.

                                    So I cant say I've been beaten like St. Johns brother as you have. I have seen some fights though around the block and I know enough that if you leave a vital open like your head and have someone lay as many hits as Lee did with out anyone stopping it your not going to function the same and your hardly going to be moving when those zombies come after you. I could be wrong though since as you say in your "personal experience" from getting your face pounded like the St. Johns bro you could still get up. In reality you would be the toughest human punching bag ever to even comprehend revenge after you let someone unload on your face like lee did to the st John's brother.

                                    The fact stands the St. Johns brother did nothing because he could not do anything. Im not going to argue about it anymore.

                                    • The thing about being bias is it means you are only offered one side of the story. Both sides of the story are evident from my posts. There is the hypothetical and completely possible version of what could happen and the events that actually took place. You only argue and see the latter. I feed off of food and drink. I enjoy proving myself correct, not through assumptions but through arguing, which is why we're here. So calling me out on defending my points is pretty lackluster.

                                      Hehe, well then I guess you wouldn't know would you. Also, welcome to the Internet.

                                      The fights you've seen don't entail the one on the ground is bout to be eaten alive does it? You don't live in a neighborhood with actual zombies right? It's completely realistic to think of revenge after getting your ass beat, let alone when the person who just beat your ass also killed your beloved family. It isn't about perfectly functioning, it's about functioning enough to escape.

                                      The fact stands he didn't do anything. The fact doesn't stand that he couldn't have.

    • Would he really try to kill an eleven year old?

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