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People finally starting to wake up and accept that working on 4 games at once is hurting TWDSeason2?

posted by Clem_is_awesome on - last edited - Viewed by 17K users
"Third time's a charm" -- What i said a couple of days after beating episode 2. I was so happy knowing that we'll go to a camp, the PERFECT place to have tons of hubs and people to talk to. What made me even more hyped about going to the god damned camp? the fact that all the playable 400 days characters were confirmed in the game files. What did i get instead? Probably the most rushed episode in the history of TWD.

Now i'm seeing a lot of threads popping up with a good amount of thumbs up where people are actually agreeing that the episode felt super rushed and had very poor writing for what we expected.

Now let's talk about the biggest problems with this episode.

My biggest issue with this episode is Carver. From episode 1 we're being hyped about this super bad dude "Carver" going around killing LOTS of people we already know from the past(Roman and the scavengers at the river). Episode 2 trailer comes out and there we have Telltale hyping up this character again, played by Michael Madsen and also putting "Who is Carver?" in their Playing Dead vids and all. They even got Anadel to compose an insanely amazing track just named "Carver". On episode 2 we're told in some parts that Carver is a very intelligent man. We get descriptions like "Clementine and her group learn what it’s like to live under the heel of a leader whose intelligence is rivaled only by his propensity for brutal violence." and that leads us to believe that this guy is some genius mastermind with a really dark agenda that we'll get to see in episode 3. The episode comes out and it turns out he really isn't that smart and that the camp really isn't that safe. Then Carver dies and that's it. He had no character development in the episode. Even Bonnie and Troy had more lines and screen time than him. Super disappointed.

Second issue. 400 days characters. We play the 400 days DLC and we end up loving most of the characters. By the end of it we're left with this cliffhanger that we're going to some community. Tons of speculation and hype start building up as we find out Tavia's community might be Carver's community. SO MANY QUESTIONS START COMING UP. "How are we going to interact with the 400 days characters?" , "Was Tavia's community good from the start? did Carver eventually take over after some time?" ,"Becca will be older, how is she going to interact with Clem? "I can't wait to interact with all my favorite characters from 400 days!". All this twitter hype about "YOU NEED TO PLAY 400 DAYS" then the episode comes out and every single 400 days character has either 1 or 2 lines and they're all assholes now. It's very very unlikely that we'll see them again and i don't even wanna see them again to be honest.

Third problem. Some of the writing. There are tons of stuff left unexplained after Carver's death and it's stuff that will probably never be explained. We didn't know what happened to the people who got shot at the river and the ties they had with Carver. We never got to know who was George and why Alvin killed him. Rebecca's complete change of personality. We're being led to believe that the Cabin Group can't really be trusted and that they're hiding something. It turned out the Cabin Group didn't really have any skeletons in the closet and there really is no reason to believe there will be any more trust issues in episode 4 or 5 since most of the cabin group is dead now. Telltale made a big emphasis on this Luke vs Kenny thing that started in episode 2 but as of now there really is no way that anyone will pick Luke over Kenny after how bad Luke screwed up in episode 3. It's all a mess.

It's clear how this huge workload of working on 4 games at once and the constant switch of writers, directors and designers between all games is hurting season 2's quality. The 90 minute per episode formula just doesn't work for this game.

Don't get me wrong, episode 3 was great by itself but i don't like settling down for something like this knowing that Telltale can do better and has done better in the past with season 1. All i can hope now is that Telltale gets a reality check some day and they go back to working only on Season 3.
362 Comments
    • HOW IN THE FUCK! Did you get twenty three upvotes for this?!
    • I upvote him. i could not resist, my finger just clicked the like button..
    • The main problem is that it's extremely obvious that Telltale is understaffed and that's probably an understatement. You would think that with the massive success of season 1 that they would some extra funds to hire some more staff dedicated exclusively to TWD. Seriously, how many people, relative to TWD players, actually play Telltale's other games? I would wager a very small percentage. Personally, I have no interest in playing any of their other games and I'd bet most other TWD players feel the same way. TWD is their cash cow. The second major problem is that they aren't forthright about release dates. I would prefer to wait a few extra weeks to play a better game, but I'd also like some honesty about the release dates for a product I've already paid for in advance. I'd also appreciate if they came out and said something like, "look we were wrong. These game will take more like 2-3 months instead of the 4-6 weeks we promised." I think the writing is still pretty good, because I'm still experiencing the strong emotional responses I experience through almost every other episode. The OP is right though, the idea behind 400 days seems to have gotten scrapped because they just don't have the resources to pull off these episodes in a timely manner. 400 Days was actually a cool concept, but it didn't have the follow-through most people were expecting.
  • I agree, The Episode was great imo but the use of the 400 Days characters pissed me off, If they were gonna make the whole 400 Days cast do jackshit(Apart from Bonnie), Really they should have just made Bonnie the lead of the DLC if she was the only one who was gonna play a big role.
  • why do you keep assumeing they are working on 4 games, 2 mabey but not 4. game of thrones is not even being worked on and borderlands is most likely in preproduction.

    the carver thing: disk one final boss. i called this before the episode even came out. for those that don't know what this term means it is a villain set up to be the main villain but dies half way through the story.
    • Even 2 games is too much.
      • I'm not sure who the dude downvoting you is. That person clearly has no idea how bad of an impact Telltale taking on 4 franchises is.
        I worry that if it gets too much, Telltale will drop a series, or the quality will severely lack.
        • It's just a troll, Ignore him.

          Me too, I'm just worried they might try to work on 8 games at once...
          • Game developer studio doesn't consist of programmers and artists only. You have bunch of other people that are needed in other parts of the project and can't start/finish their job if something before isn't done properly or at all. Something like the car factory.

            I wouldn't expect half of their guys to sit and twiddle their thumbs just because they're concept artist or something and are no longer needed in particular stage. They can work on other projects like the Borderlands series in this case.
            It's not like one person sits with 4 monitors all displaying stuff related to the other games at once because, you know, people need to focus...

            In my humble opinion of course...
    • Borderlands IS IN PRODUCTION. Shit, they're close on releasing it, stop lying to your god damn self.
    • The final final boss is Kenny methinks.
    • What are you talking about? How DO YOU know they aren't working on 4 games?

      Clearly they're working on four games. TWD and TWAU are the first two to appear. How did you know they're not working on Game of Thrones? Actually Dave Fenoy said they're working on it on one of the playing dead episodes. And what about the pictures that were released about TFTBL? Considering they're already working on GoT, then theyre SURELY as well working on Tales from...

      Hell, I DO REALIZE the hard work, but REALLY? Do they have to work on four games when it's hard to even release an episode? THEY ALWAYS ARE LATE. They always piss us off with their "soon" and stupid "just around the corner". Oh not to mention "played it today at the office and it was BlOoDy GoOd"


      I completely agree with everything the OP said. Their games are awesome but somewhat disappointing from another side. Their stories aren't entirely keeping up because they're working on multiple games in the same time, causing less appropriate time for them. Let's not forget TWAU episode 2 was also more of a rush.

      They either unfreeze their brains or keep disappointing until they demolish themselves.

      Facts are facts.
  • If the rest of the 400 Days cast don't do anything else by the next episode...or at least the 5th episode, then I feel like I wasted $5 for nothing, tbh.
    • Same, but I feel Telltale will try to justify it by saying it was just "Tie Over" Content to keep us busy instead. I mean... 400 days wasn't really that big anyways. I completed it in an hour. I personally feel the only reason it existed was for Bonnie.
    • I already feel like I wasted 5 bones on 400 days. When the tweet came out that "if you havent yet you might want to play 400 days, it plays a big role in the story, etc". I already was done with the first episode of season 2 when that tweet was posted which made me want to get 400 days for the choices. and woopty-doo none of the choices I made in 400 days transferred over... So rather than just bonnie being at Carver's everyone in 400 days was at Carvers except Russel and for all I know because of the random generation Russel could of went with Nate... DAMN YOU TTG!
  • looking at this again this seems more like a walking dead issue then anything. with the exception of episode 2 wolf among has had at lest some type of hub and had more branching then season 1 and 2 combined.
  • Agree with (most of) this. I really need to quote The Angry Video Game Nerd in saying; "What were they thinking?" This much work? This many projects? They're a small team as it is and now they diminish the quality of their games thanks to doing too many projects at once? I really, really hope they'll pay attention to us. As much as I enjoyed Episode 3, it was the first episode of the series I felt like I more watched than I played. The lack of hubs and even dialogue choices now has made me worry about the future of this series.

    In regards to Luke screwing up... I don't blame him. The guy looked a wreck. He was hungry and tired, don't blame him for messing up but it was still a stupid thing to do. And they really, really messed up the 400 Days character portion. Such a terrible, terrible waste. Especially when these guys are renowned for adventure games you'd think it natural to have a part where you walk around and talk to people. Having determinant characters like the 400 Days characters having conversations like that would've been really, really nice. I played 400 Days prior to this episode and now even after playing this I felt like 400 Days was actually completely pointless. And one thing I was really looking forward to was being sassy Clem to Becca. Even one dialogue tree would've been nice towards them but nope, nothing. Just one or two lines and that's it.

    And I really hope we do learn more about the group. But now something tells me it's just wishful thinking. Only Luke, Rebecca and Nick remain (if you saved him that is). Honestly, the main thing I've loved about Season Two the most is Clementine's character development and how it's going to go from here, and it still is the main thing I'm looking forward to. But no doubt about it, Telltale need to get back to the drawing board on Episode 4 or at least spend more time on the writing and voice acting. I found Reggie's voice acting rather poor. Everyone else was good, especially Gavin Hammon. He was fantastic in this episode.
    • Indeed. It's way less of an impact of us to see Carlos die for example, even in front of Sarah, because we barely know either character.

      Compare that to Walter: 20 minute Cameo: instant fan hit. Dies in the same episode. We get to know Walter so much in that episode, hence why we like him, and we were sad and angry to see him die. We have yet to have that opportunity with many dead group members now, Alvin, Carlos, Potentially Nick, but yet now we will never.

      I don't know why, but Telltale got me way more attached to the season one characters somehow, I felt like I knew all of them, even the ones I didn't get along with (for me it was Lilly and Larry, I really liked Kenny simply because our goals aligned from the start: Protect the children). As a result I was much sadder to see them go, even Ben, and especially Chuck and Kenny and his family.

      I'm pretty sure it was the hub areas though, where we got to talk to each character individually and see how they were doing, which allowed us to monitor the development of every character as the narrative progressed, and maybe help them with a personal problem or have them unexpectedly help us with one of our dilemmas. Basically allowed us to get to know the characters at our own pace, and only if we chose, since we could just ignore and stay away from Larry for example if we wanted to.

      Anyway that's my 5 cents. Some big caps lock stuff for people in a hurry/wanting a summary:

      TL:DR:ANY/MORE HUB AREAS=BETTER CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT.

      CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT IN A CHARACTER BASED DRAMA =PRETTY DAMN VITAL AND BECOMES MORE GLARING AS THE SERIES PROGRESSES.
      • Yes! I was trying to pin down what I thought was missing from this episode, you worded it perfectly. There needs to be more hub worlds to talk with the characters and see how they're feeling. A hub with the 400 Days characters would've worked perfectly, I don't know why they didn't do that instead of just cameos.

        I also felt there was too much focus on the story this episode. I know TWD games are all about story, but previous episodes and especially all of season 1 had a great balance of adventure gameplay and little puzzle solving to go along with the narrative. This episode, there seemed to be little to none of that.
  • No, first episode of Tales from the Borderlands will come out at this summer. So yes, they are developing at least 3 games at the same time, which must have impact on developing of The Walking Dead, and it does judging from lentgth of the episodes and that overall "rush" feeling.
  • Much agreed here. Telltale has handled TWD with great charm in "All That Remains," but it's all just going downhill since they began juggling their projects. They don't need to crank out a game every month, we can wait great lengths for something as long as it's good. After an uneventful Ep2 and a grizzly unplayable Ep3, I fear for what the next chapter will (not) give us.
    • I thought episode 2 was fantastic. Most people hated All That Remains. Which I never got since I thought it served as an excellent reintroduction to Clementine.
      • Until now, Ep2 was considered underwhelming due to how "to-the-point" it made the story, but it also had tension with the introduction of Carver, some tragedy with Nick's confession with killing his mother, but most of all, a chance to get relaxed in the lodge. The return of Kenny and the infamous "which seat should I take" moment remains some of the highlighting moments in the entire series.

        Ep3 had very little up until the final 5 minutes, which is agonizing when remembering how much care TTG put into the other scenes in the previous episodes. I'm going to call it here, "In Harm's Way" is going to be the "Around Every Corner" of Season 2. They put too much focus on a locale instead of the characters, Crawford in S1E4, and once again with Howe's Hardwares in S2E3.
        • They need to switch the writers and crew back to the previous. The new ones are horrible.
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            OzzyUK Moderator
            The main writers from the previous game left to make their own company so they won't be coming back :(
            • They're called Telltale. I can assure you, that Telltale consist primarily of good writers. Having been a loyal fan of their games prior to them making mainstream success. It's the reason they're called Telltale. They write stories primarily. The real problem is they're working quite the deadlines and doing too many projects at the one time this time around. Season Two is expected to be complete in the Summer according to Steam.
          • The new writers are fine, the problem really is they're not taking their time with this. People in the forum are impatient, and they decided it would be a great idea to do two projects at once while trying to keep both entries out in a steady pacing. And since they're working on two at once they're always shifting between projects and losing their focus.

            And now Borderlands and Game of Thrones are toppling them of too. Two projects was bad enough but four? Jesus are you fucking kidding me...
            • Exactly. Telltale is just stupid to be taking on two new projects. They already have issues keeping up with releasing episodes. This is a disaster. I smell a company collapse coming in the next 5 years if they continue this horrible business practice.
    • If I may ask, what platform did you play on? I played Episode 3 on the PS3 with no issue that could make it "Unplayable".
      • I played it on PS3 as well. When I mean "Unplayable," I didn't mean by design. I mean that there wasn't really any button prompts in Ep3 compared to the others. No tools to pick up and use. No hidden items to find for later use in another episode. We get to see Clem snip branches off the plant, but we can't do it ourselves? We see Clem walking towards the expansion with the bucket of nails, but we couldn't walk for her, and get a button prompt to examine Reggie's corpse manually? We don't get to search through Carver's office or examine/take an apple from the desk? This is what I mean when I say "Unplayable."
    • I don't know what you guys have been playing but I've been loving the new games. The Wolf Among Us and The Walking Dead are both great, I don't know what you guys are talking about. I reckon if they weren't juggling as many projects and they just released this people wouldn't give it as much shit as they do right now.
  • "YOU NEED TO PLAY 400 DAYS" completely agree about this. What should I play 400 days again for? To find out who Bonnie and Tavia are? Oh, great. Other characters from 400 days just put in ep.3 like "Here! That's them. Remember 400 days? The connection between S1 and S2. We only have 90 minutes, so that's it, quickly run over there!".
  • I wish Season One writers were here. Especially Sean Vanaman and Gary Whitta. This Season feels...rushed. They had all great characters from Season One we already attached to them emotionally. Including 400 Days characters. (Only Vince I liked.) And Season 2 characters like Pete. But no. They wasted all in the first minutes of the beginning. They're not some EA, Rockstar Games or Activision. They're small game company. The Walking Dead, The Fables, Borderlands, Game Of Thrones...these are no jokes. These franchises are really wants serious business. Telltale can do that. BUT NOT WORKING ALL 4 GAMES AT ONCE! Personally I didn't enjoy Season 2. It is dissapointing. They have to get their Ben together ASAP! If they don't, well...they'll lose so many fans trust. Well said @Clem_is_awesome ;)
    • Working on four games at once will be their downfall. First off, Borderlands WILL fail. What core borderlands fan will play it? Its a completely different genre and story. Second, they already have trouble releasing 2 series on time. But 4? My god are you joking?
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