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People finally starting to wake up and accept that working on 4 games at once is hurting TWDSeason2?

posted by Clem_is_awesome on - last edited - Viewed by 17.1K users
"Third time's a charm" -- What i said a couple of days after beating episode 2. I was so happy knowing that we'll go to a camp, the PERFECT place to have tons of hubs and people to talk to. What made me even more hyped about going to the god damned camp? the fact that all the playable 400 days characters were confirmed in the game files. What did i get instead? Probably the most rushed episode in the history of TWD.

Now i'm seeing a lot of threads popping up with a good amount of thumbs up where people are actually agreeing that the episode felt super rushed and had very poor writing for what we expected.

Now let's talk about the biggest problems with this episode.

My biggest issue with this episode is Carver. From episode 1 we're being hyped about this super bad dude "Carver" going around killing LOTS of people we already know from the past(Roman and the scavengers at the river). Episode 2 trailer comes out and there we have Telltale hyping up this character again, played by Michael Madsen and also putting "Who is Carver?" in their Playing Dead vids and all. They even got Anadel to compose an insanely amazing track just named "Carver". On episode 2 we're told in some parts that Carver is a very intelligent man. We get descriptions like "Clementine and her group learn what it’s like to live under the heel of a leader whose intelligence is rivaled only by his propensity for brutal violence." and that leads us to believe that this guy is some genius mastermind with a really dark agenda that we'll get to see in episode 3. The episode comes out and it turns out he really isn't that smart and that the camp really isn't that safe. Then Carver dies and that's it. He had no character development in the episode. Even Bonnie and Troy had more lines and screen time than him. Super disappointed.

Second issue. 400 days characters. We play the 400 days DLC and we end up loving most of the characters. By the end of it we're left with this cliffhanger that we're going to some community. Tons of speculation and hype start building up as we find out Tavia's community might be Carver's community. SO MANY QUESTIONS START COMING UP. "How are we going to interact with the 400 days characters?" , "Was Tavia's community good from the start? did Carver eventually take over after some time?" ,"Becca will be older, how is she going to interact with Clem? "I can't wait to interact with all my favorite characters from 400 days!". All this twitter hype about "YOU NEED TO PLAY 400 DAYS" then the episode comes out and every single 400 days character has either 1 or 2 lines and they're all assholes now. It's very very unlikely that we'll see them again and i don't even wanna see them again to be honest.

Third problem. Some of the writing. There are tons of stuff left unexplained after Carver's death and it's stuff that will probably never be explained. We didn't know what happened to the people who got shot at the river and the ties they had with Carver. We never got to know who was George and why Alvin killed him. Rebecca's complete change of personality. We're being led to believe that the Cabin Group can't really be trusted and that they're hiding something. It turned out the Cabin Group didn't really have any skeletons in the closet and there really is no reason to believe there will be any more trust issues in episode 4 or 5 since most of the cabin group is dead now. Telltale made a big emphasis on this Luke vs Kenny thing that started in episode 2 but as of now there really is no way that anyone will pick Luke over Kenny after how bad Luke screwed up in episode 3. It's all a mess.

It's clear how this huge workload of working on 4 games at once and the constant switch of writers, directors and designers between all games is hurting season 2's quality. The 90 minute per episode formula just doesn't work for this game.

Don't get me wrong, episode 3 was great by itself but i don't like settling down for something like this knowing that Telltale can do better and has done better in the past with season 1. All i can hope now is that Telltale gets a reality check some day and they go back to working only on Season 3.
362 Comments
  • I have nothing to add to the excellent posts above me, so I'm here only to say that I agree. I have talked about some of this things in my time, and I would like to add more to this discussion, but yesterday left me... drained.
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    goodcop2 BANNED
    bump ttg writer staff needs to see this.
  • I don't agree at all. I think it was the best episode to date together with the season 1 finale.

    Who cares about hubs when the story is this good? I wouldn't mind a few more hubs, but tbh it's no deal breaker at all for me.
    I'm glad they didn't drag the Carver thing out too long, I'm glad they gave us the closure and that we're moving on. I think they did a fantastic job in making him a great, scary villain.

    I don't care too much about 400 days tbh, the story didn't even get close to being as good as s1 or s2, and I do believe we might see the other characters that didn't go with Tavia in future episodes and possibly even interact with them.

    The little details not being explained is a good thing imo, would break immersion and not make sense. "Oh hey guys we just got taken to prison, put to work, got the shit beaten out of all of us, but let's take a moment to talk about the whole Alvin-George situation instead of trying to save our asses"...
    Also if I'm not mistaken the whole don't trust the cabin group idea was implanted by Carver...
    We also have two whole episodes to explore the whole Kenny vs Luke thing.
    • > Who cares about hubs when the story is this good?

      Many people, apparently. *Sigh* Here I go... For starters, it offers some open gameplay, much needed character interaction/ some development for them, lets you slow down a little, yadda, yadda. I'm done explaining this shit; I did for the last two months and I'm tired by now. Besides, there is an important answer to your question. "Who cares about hubs?" The key answer that renders all of this moot is: "Not Telltale".

      "The story is this good" Nah, Carver and his camp were underused as hell. Plus, the characters have started to die like flies and I still find it hard to care. I do not know these people.

      >I'm glad they didn't drag the Carver thing out too long,

      Yeah, me too, because he was a poor villain in the long run. "A one-dimensional psycho who gets to thwart the group at each turn, making your choices here bloody worthless." He was there for that and for players to achieve catharsis/ develop Clem and Kenny to a certain degree.

      > The little details not being explained is a good thing imo, would break immersion and not make sense. "Oh hey guys we just got taken to prison, put to work, got the shit beaten out of all of us, but let's take a moment to talk about the whole Alvin-George situation instead of trying to save our asses"...

      The little details made last season. How is revealing apparently major background information relevant to the plot be immersion breaking? Besides, I would like to simply *talk* to someone at this point, prisoners or not.

      > We also have two whole episodes to explore the whole Kenny vs Luke thing.

      How exciting. It's Lilly come again as a nicer man. And Kenny... Kenny never changes. (Fallout reference, BTW)
    • Baloe sorry but you sound like a blind fanboy. There were serious problems with ep3 & this season as a whole, which is very disappointing because of how good the 1st one was
      • I am a fanboy, I'm honestly disappointed this game doesn't have more of em, it's the greatest game series ever made (if you care about story that is)

        Edit: It's still my opinion and if TT did something I would not find up to snuff I would say so, don't get me wrong. I just don't criticize for the sake of criticizing :P
        Also: while I might be a fanboy, I see a lot of haters too, who I hope are just sore over the wait/in the feels rollercoaster :P
      • Might I also ask what these grand problems are? And what made s1 so much better?
        • Lol don't get me wrong you could consider me a fanboy too I love TTG, every time I see there's a new ep I have a nerdgasm but I can't deny the quality isn't as high as it should be. Not to say it isnt good, I still enjoyed it but everything seems so... Rushed. The decision to kill off Carver after he's only been in 2 eps is very bizarre after all the fuss about him, he could have been such an epic villain but when he died I honestly didn't care I was just glad I wouldn't have to put up with him killing all my friends for no damn reason (honestly he's meant to be intelligent he must know he's losing manpower for his base by killing everyone). Also the voice acting by Reggie was piss poor I felt like someone in an XBL party was talking to me not a real person as the illusion should be. Another thing that's bothering me is the sudden personality change from Rebecca. When I first arrived at the camp she seemed to hate me & so I was rude back to her but now most of the dialogue options lead to us becoming best buds. I could go on but I don't wana sound like I'm bitching and whining because I am enjoying the game, it's just that season 1 had none of these problems in my opinion everything felt so natural & it was one of the best gaming experiences of my life, a following season should take the same template & improve on it.
  • Not to be rude or discredit anyone's opinion, but it seems the primary criticism I've seen isn't involving writing, rushing, or plot, but pure bitching about the 400 Days DLC characters. People are angry they didn't play a bigger role. Yeah, it's valid criticism, but when you claim the entire game is made horrendously awful and order Telltale to cancel other projects -solely- because of the 400 Days character issue, then it's nothing more than whining and complaining. Many people believed this episode to be absolutely fantastic, myself included, and while I strongly agreed with you, OP, back when TWAU Episode 2 came out, I've since believed Telltale may very well be able to handle al the games. I still think taking it slower would be good, but I don't think TWDS2 is failing because of it, and the absence of major roles for the 400 Days characters does not at all, in any shape, way, form, or fashion, prove the episode was terrible or of low-quality. I felt the pace was good, and though some things were a little odd (how said 400 Days chars only had 1-2 lines each, how everyone kept expecting Clementine to do the dangerous work, etc.), I really did love the episode, and I'm pretty sure it's going to get better in Episode 4. Telltale knows what they're doing. They have the episodes planned out. They've had this season planned out for almost two years now. Have a little more faith, and don't be condemning of it because DLC characters weren't the main focus of the game.
  • Totally agree. TWD S1 still remains to be the best of telltale. TWAU ep1 was promising, but the later episodes followed the same route of rushed and no exploration, QTE heavy gameplay.
  • yeah telltale quit the other series and concéntrate in the walking dead season 2 the more important.
    • I feel Telltale should drop a least ONE series. Once they get their results after both Borderlands and Game of thrones releases, and after TWAU and TWD S2 are completed, they should ditch an underperfoming series. (It won't be TWD, its too popular). I feel it will end up being borderlands. Why? Core borderlands players could care less about this game. Its a completely different genre.
      • I think they should just drop GoT. that series is very overrated as it is. borderlands looks like it can be fun, and wolf amongs us never played it, so I it be easy for me to say fuck all those others series, but they have a fan base. ( not the border lands of the GOT cuz they havent been released) and I didn't know they didn't have all the original writers of season one. I think this season has been awesome, but not there with season one cuz I don't think they'll ever beat season one. yes they should've, no this should've been probsbly the longest episode of the season, and develop character and hub they need to do that
  • The way I see it is that each individual episode of season 2 has been great, I have no complaints, but the season itself so far as a whole is not so great, I don't feel like we're getting an idea of where the story is going and I don't know it just doesn't feel anywhere near as good as Season 1 but come to think of it, it was the last 2 episodes of season 1 that really made it great imo, so there's still time for it all to come together and make sense.
  • @puzzlebox I hope you take notice of this and forward it to the developers.

    This is clearly a problem.
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    Vainamoinen Moderator
    I can relate to a lot of the narrative-argumentative stuff in the original post, but the blame shifting parts really don't hit their mark.

    First, the thread title. Telltale is not "working on four games at once". Depending on your definition of "to work on" in this context, Telltale presently either works at just two titles or, wait for it, SEVERAL DOZEN. Right now, Tales of the Borderlands and Game of Thrones are just about in the same state as The Wolf among Us was during the run of The Walking Dead Season 1. And although there were a lot of complaints back then, the writing was mostly thought of as superb. The level of influence the vast and mostly classified franchise pipeline has over the two presently running Seasons is the very same it was years and years ago. I won't say that influence is nonexistent, but I will say that nothing has changed in the way Telltale works here. The comparison to Season 1 fails to be relevant, in my opinion.

    Second, our beloved Telltale deserters have nothing to do with it. Losing Jake and Sean was absolutely sad for Telltale, but it could not have been any other way. As they have repeatedly stated, they HAVE worked on Season 2 before they left, so their shaping hands should still be visible. The central thing to grasp here, however, is that their influence on Season 1 was not just story related, but very very much game mechanic related. These mechanics have shaped a new kind of Telltale game - the one Kevin has named the "episodic story game", so Jake and Sean's legacy isn't just alive here, their brain child is very actively spawning new games, all of them with their fingerprints on them. I can't speak for their motivations, but judging from the game they're presently making, they would really like to make their own story based franchise instead of lending one from elsewhere. With that ambition, it might have been a grave mistake to stay with Telltale.

    Third, "the constant switch of writers, directors and designers" was always Telltale's way of doing things. Relying on different creatives with the same function isn't exactly a Telltale exclusive thing; TV series have done the very same thing for decades (with mixed results, some of them fantastic).

    Fourth, releasing game series concurrently was always Telltale's goal right from the start. They tried that with TWDs2 and TWaU, and we can all agree that the attempt did in fact fail. I do hope they won't attempt the very same thing right again with TftB and GoT, because I think they're just_not_ready_yet. But when there actually is a Season 3, in 2016 or beyond, who knows? (Yes, I know 2016 freaks you guys out as a vague projection for Season 3, but do the episode math). They might just be ready then.
    • Well since you are a moderator, care to explain why Telltale lied and said we would only have a 4-6 week wait period between episodes?
      I sincerely hope you don't plan to keep making us wait 3 months between episodes. First of all, that causes us to forget many things from episodes, and also makes YOU lose customers when they forget about your game.
      • Here, from his bio:

        > Moderators on the Telltale forum are all volunteers from the community and still belong to the community. They are not employees of the company. Their posts express their personal opinion and must never be mistaken for official company statements. The moderators do not possess any relevant behind the scenes knowledge. They can make a guess based on experience and knowledge of Telltale's past if you have a question. They can't really do more than that.
        • Ah, well darn. I wonder if TTG actually reads these forums?
          Because there is just so much valid points on this thread that they MUST read.
          • They do read.
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            Vainamoinen Moderator
            > cameroncr95 wrote: Ah, well darn.

            My constant 2nd person plural reference to Telltale might have been a very good indicator about my status as well. ;)

            The question "why [did] Telltale lie and said we would only have a 4-6 week wait period between episodes?" is of course unanswerable because of its insulting presupposition alone. Had TTG known that they couldn't do concurrent releases within an acceptable time frame, they wouldn't have attempted it, I strongly believe that. A conscious lie was never spoken. There is just one video game company in the world I'd accuse of outright lying to their customers, and it certainly isn't Telltale.

            Also, should a fruitful dialog between Telltale and their fans ever occur, it will certainly only ever be after some fans drop their "insult to improve" attitude.

            We need bare facts on the desk before us, not insults, exaggerations and conspiracy theories.
  • My major problem is the brevity of the episodes. I haven't minded the writing like others seem to, but it feels undermined by how quick each episode is now. In season one, each episode felt like a great, self-contained story. Its shortest, Episode 5, at least had a great story-based reason for it. This year, between The Wolf Among Us and Season 2, I have been increasingly disappointed by the length of each episode and the effect on its content. They are all as long as that shortest episode from TWD Season One, and when they end, my first thought is "Already?!?" instead of "Can't wait for the next entry!"

    I've enjoyed, in general terms, what they're doing with Season 2's story. However, the thinness of each episode is really, really detracting from the experience. The same goes for The Wolf Among Us, as well. My worry is that this length has become some kind of new benchmark, which will be tremendously disappointing, especially once the Game of Thrones game rolls around.
    • I'm more or less convinced that holes in the writing, length and the enjoyment of the overall experience are connected. People tend to see the one that bothers them the most, but many perceived issues seem connected to me.
    • It sucks that we wait 3 months for a 2 hour episode. Its unacceptable and bad fan fare. they also don't listen to fans. If they continue, they could very well be "Forgotten" and become the trash they once were when they developed Jurrassic Park and CSI.
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