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Control Scheme?

posted by RMJ1984 on - last edited - Viewed by 3.1K users

Yeah the news is outta this world, but before i can preorder, i gotta know, is this bad Wallace & Gromit controls?

Or Good Sam & Max control scheme?

Thanks.

537 Comments - Linear Discussion: Classic Style
  • It would be great for people unable to use the keyboard, though.

  • [quote] Originally Posted by Chuck View Post
    As far as I'm concerned, after 8 episodes of Sam & Max (I started halfway through season 1), 5 episodes of Strong Bad, and Monkey 3, seeing something as simple as the hallway in Wallace & Gromit's house is a god-send. You don't have to look at the world from the side anymore, as if everything's on a stage. We can have rooms with 4 real walls. We can make more use of vertical space, and circular space, and let you go anywhere we want.[/quote]

    Talk about a COP OUT answer.

    First thing is first W&G, like mentioned earlier only ever had 3 walls.

    Secondly, You can make a fully 3D game WITH 4 walls.... something Telltale hasn't done yet, that is 100% Point and click navigational. It's been done before in the past, and has worked just fine nearly every time. Ever play City of Heroes? Yeah after issue 3 they added in Point and Click. You simply click when you wanna go, and can rotate the camera with right click.

    As for saying, Oh we make control schemes usable on multiple platforms. *Sigh* I guess tell tale is full of bad designers then. The answer to your dilemma is to apply a new control scheme ONLY to the platforms that need one. We all know the Tell Tale engine fully supports PNC since it's been used in SnM. I know the code isn't gone, if it is gone... than you have som severely amateur programmers. So now you created new code for analog input. So the PC version should contain BOTH SETS of code... with out an option... they should work all the time together. I.E. Games For Windows games that allow you to just pick up your 360 gamepad without enabling it in the options menu such as GTA 4. The second an input is detected on the controller the controller is enabled. The same goes for KB&Mouse. The second an input on the mouse or keyboard is detected it switches over to that control scheme automatically on the fly.

    All your answers are TERRIBLE excuses, since you think your trying to be innovative not realizing what your trying to do has been done before.... and done better I might add. So in other words..... your taking a step backwards just like everyone else suggests.

    Oh and while we are on the topic of Controls and Tell Tale games.... wasn't the reason Tell Tale became a development studio because they wanted to bring back the old POINT AND CLICK ADVENTURES?

    Oh yeah... I'm sorry, Case and Point.

    Your getting the backlash because your being ignorant and claiming you are doing something original, when your simply not. This is the reason for all the semantics. You said that we aren't getting the answers we WANT. Well that is true.... but you also said the answers your giving were because of completely fallacious excuses. We might ACCEPT your answers if they made sense... but they don't... nor are they natural. Oh and by the way, I've known a few people with only one usable hand.... for some mystical reason Adventure games were their favorite... why is that? Maybe because you only need one hand to play them and you can still enjoy them like everybody else. So go ahead, take that away from some one with a disability because your seeking advancements that move you forward.....

    ::Rolls Eyes::

    Oh and BTW, I never had a problem with the control scheme.... I have a problem with the lack of a choice.

    Sit on that for a minute.

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    NickTTG Telltale Staff

    @Laokin said: Talk about a COP OUT answer.

    First thing is first W&G, like mentioned earlier only ever had 3 walls.

    I stopped reading after this. We've already addressed how wrong that statement is.


    P.S. I love everyone.

  • I have to say, though... I've never felt any need to have more walls.. it never even occured to me.
    In fact I actually rather like the way adventure games have traditionally been presented.

  • @Armakuni said: It would be great for people unable to use the keyboard, though.

    Uhhhh....

  • @Chuck said: It's not a huge stretch: that was one of the ideas behind using the dioramas. It's a gag about how all the environments are like stage sets without 4th walls. (Maybe not a particularly funny gag, but that was the idea, anyway).

    Cool. And yeah, it's not exactly laugh-out-loud funny, though I still find little "winks" at the player like this pretty amusing in their own way. :)

    On-topic: ... Er, I'm afraid this will look a bit out of place with the current direction of the discussion, but I just wanted to say that I'd love to see the "press Tab to reveal hotspots" feature show up in Tales, since that's one of the best new things to come out of W&G.

    Otherwise, I've pretty much said my piece about the controls in previous posts, at least for now.

  • @Pantagruel's Friend said: Come on, this is just getting silly. What kind of hell would break lose? More ranting users on the bulletin boards (80 instead of 40)? And absolutely no response from the site staff? Some hell, that would be.

    Also, accusing Telltale of going after only the money stands no ground whatsoever. It was said earlier in this thread that adventure games are anything but a goldmine (and I can believe that, since Telltale is producing like 60% of this genre's output), and also, being familiar with the prices in the Telltale Store, they're quite reasonable and don't compare to the prices of those companies who ask 1.5 times the price of a Telltale season for a game that lasts twice as long as one single episode (and I'm even being optimistic here).

    I won't even comment on the remarks about the W&G gfx...


    Slow money is better than fast money. Video games are WAY to high priced right now, if they were lower priced say like $19.99 sure if the game sold a million they would make less money than if the game sold a million at $60. The problem with that argument though is, if there is a million people willing to purchase a game for $60, there is easily 6 million people willing to buy it for $19.99. Especially if it's actually a quality game unlike the games currently priced at $20.... Horrible games.... essentially almost always a total waste of that $20. If you had a marketing campaign as big as say gears of war for a $20 game of the same quality... you would make more revenue in the long run. No question.

    There is only 2 notable problems with tell tale stopping them from being the best dev team to ever exist IMO.

    1.) Episodes. I don't want episodic games..... The counter argument is well, you end up with a game that is longer than a normal game.... Well this is simply untrue. Episodes force you to replay certain environments WAY too much. Lets look at Sam n Max. Compare it to the original where the office was the beginning of the game and once you really got on the road you never went home till the adventure was finished. Sam n Max episodes almost always focused on the office. Totally ruined what made Sam n Max special.

    Episodes also don't connect to well. Every new episode feels like a totally new game, the events in the previous episode were pretty much all tied up. The end of each episode gave you a clue about what the next episode would be about... it didn't feel like a grand story arc like they advertised.

    If you want to see a game based on episodes that works.... check out Alone in the Dark (2008.) Although they didn't actually release them as episodes in the long run.... they had the system perfected.

    So what I mean by perfected is, if I have Every Episode of Sam n Max season 1 installed... it should play from episode 1 to 2 to 3 to 4 seamlessly. Instead you have to watch the credits which interrupts the flow of the game... plus you have to actually quit and start a new executable... (Also adding to that feeling that you are not in fact playing the next episode of ONE GAME.... but you are in fact playing yet another small tiny game.)

    SnM felt like 6 games that were all sequels to each other in stead of 1 ONE GAME broken down into seasons. Also, the previously on Sam n Max and the Next time on Sam n Max were totally missing.... They designed the episodic model to mimic television.... yet they fall flat on their face. Another thing Alone in the Dark (2008) did. When you beat an episode if you chose to quit it would give you a trailer of the next episode like a TV commercial. When you loaded a game it gave you the previously on and gave you a clipmix like lost (with a bit more detail since they aren't confined to a time slot) so you could get refreshed on the happenings of the story. If you were at the end of the game it would brief you in about 2 minutes everything that happened since the beginning all the way up to the current episode you were on. Something tell tale seemed to miss entirely.

    The point is Alone in the Dark felt like one complete game, played like one complete game... but also captured the feel of episodic television perfectly. Sam n Max felt like numerous entirely too short and simplified games that were all sequels to each other... combined with the fact that you couldn't play through the final game seamlessly just breaks the flow and feel that it's supposed to be one game when it's all said and done.

    Every Tell Tale game I've played thus far has missed the boat in this regard.

    2.) They are designing their games wrong. They are designing a game for all platforms instead of making subtle changes to make the game best suit the platform it's being played upon. Also, a big mistake. Especially from a company that has it's roots founded in PC gaming. It's like a MONDO slap in the face to all original adventure gaming fans.

    Provided those two gripes were fixed with future releases.... their games would be MUCH more enjoyable and as a result reward them with more monetary gain.

    Simple really. Oh and before and chief Tell Tale guy comes in here to tell me jibberish PR spin that there engine doesn't support that.... then you built your engine wrong... as your engine doesn't exactly support the episodic model you chose. With that said... it's time to apply the breaks... beef up the engine so it can do the kind of things you would expect from an episodic game and then continue production on future titles.

    Also, don't update an engine mid game... ( and not supporting widescreen in 2006 was a monumental error in game design... as well the low standard for audio that you guys demonstrated with the first season of Sam n Max. Totally amateur and unacceptable considering FREE MODS had better graphics and sound than your RETAIL product.)

    Other than that, I have to say I'm quite thrilled with Tell Tale games. At least they are proficient at making the Adventure Gameplay we all know and love. Although they did stupify it with Sam n Max.... combining items MADE that game. Sam n Max every single episode was always the same, find a few items use them find a way to score some money so you can buy the final item from Boscoe and conclude the episode. The pattern is so monotonous it's impossible to believe it's even a game... every episode boiled down to the exact same thing as the very first episode... from a puzzle point of view.

    Adventure games aren't supposed to reuse puzzles.... let alone develop a pattern in the puzzles. Every puzzle is supposed to be new and original. This also snubbed the feeling of it being big game broken down into episodes.


    Anyway, my Tell Tale rant is concluded. Feel free to flame all you want... as I don't care... my opinion is the only one right. (to me.)

  • @NickTTG said: I stopped reading after this. We've already addressed how wrong that statement is.

    P.S. I love everyone.

    If you read the rest of the article you would quickly realize what you've addressed previously is simply wrong. The article was about how BOTH parties are wrong.... but most importantly Tell Tale. The article is written with game design experience, not as an avid fan boy just ranting to rant. So I highly suggest you go back and read and quit acting like your the god of gods who has the all mighty one and only correct answer. Because that is just conceited and selfish.

    P.S. You don't.... love everyone. You don't even know hardly anyone here as an actual person. Furthermore... you don't care, if you don't care... you can't love. If you did care, you would of read my post even thinking it was wrong..... but you simply opted from 1 sentence that my opinion wasn't worth your time.

    Words don't mean anything when referring to emotions. Actions do, and your actions show you don't even care about anybody who disagrees with you. If this is the case, your lying. I know you didn't literally mean you love everyone.... but I took that as a way to say you respect your consumers..

    In actually you chose to voice your disrespect for me.... your consumer and then lie about it by saying you care about your consumers. I.E. PR Spin, it only works on people not intelligent enough to understand what you did there.

  • I think you're being overly negative in tone and attitude (which is probably why people would flame you or aren't listening to you), but I actually agree with you. It's a bit sad that you can't use either/or control scheme depending on the platform you're using. That would be perfect. Why does it have to change completely for all system ports? Why does the P&C control scheme even have to "evolve?" The simplest approach I would think would be to add an alternate control scheme to make things easier for people who prefer using arrow keys and whatnot.

    I also agree about episodes not flowing together. But it's not a huge issue for me. Taking the time to properly program the engine to support such features as you mentioned would have been excellent. It does seem like Tell Tale kind of rushes their games out the door. But I suppose you'd have to to keep to the month-to-month deadline. And it was a risk in itself to start making P&C adventures again with S&M Season One, so I can forgive that. Nothing is stopping TTG from putting more thought into things now and raising the bar, though.

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