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Gamepad controls are BAD!

posted by Hitman on - last edited - Viewed by 327 users

Many of you have expressed their feelings about the lack of a true point and click interface for the movement, but I have nothing against it. In fact, I like it better to control the character directly and only use the mouse for objects. It worked excellent in Wallace and Gromit. As the producers pointed out in another topic, it's nearly impossible to make the character move "off screen" with a point and click interface. Plus, the games look much more cinematic this way, a thing that I greatly enjoy.

My complain is that the CONTROLLERS are just messed up. Why on earth make the game playable with a controller, if you still need the mouse to use objects? It just defies my comprehension. I wanted to use the XBOX 360 controller for ToMI, playing it away from the PC, but it seems that this will not be possible (I don't have the full game yet, I'm waiting for the DVD to come out). Wallace and Gromit had full support for the controller (probably because it came out on the 360 also). Now it just annoys me that I will not be able to play it properly with a controller. Who ever heard of a mouse and controller combination? "WHAT WERE THEY THINKING?"

Is there any chance for this abominable control scheme to change for the next episodes and have full controller support? The game would be just perfect if proper control for gamepads would be implemented. By proper control I mean the hotspot cycling system, just like in Wallace and Gromit! No mouse pointer whatsoever!

31 Comments - Linear Discussion: Classic Style
  • @[TTG said: Yare;168311']There was no time to address gamepad support for ToMI on the PC. The controller half-works because our engine automatically treats the buttons like some keyboard keys, and the analog stick is routed to the same event handlers as the click+drag.

    I'm not sure if you'll see hotspot cycling in ToMI since that tech hasn't been ported from W&G, but I'll probably make the right-stick move the cursor.

    In the mean time, you can find programs like PadMappper to map the right stick to mouse movement, and play the game with just a controller.

    Could you make sure that the gamepad isn't useable as well so that tools like Xpadder will still work with the game and not trying to execute two commands then (xpadder and ttg definition for instance)?

  • @Hitman said: You can't make point and click with a controller.

    Not true. SMI:SE handles great on the 360 and Sam & Max season 1 is good on the console as well.

  • What we need is someone (Logitech?) to make a mouse with a thumbstick on the side :)

  • @[TTG said: Yare;168683']Same engine, but development of both titles was simultaneous by different teams in the studio so the scripts wound up forking. Can't really keep everything perfectly synchronized since there are different needs on each project, different deadlines, and so on.


    Fair enough :)

    I just hope that future titles will use a hot spot cycling system (when played with the controller, otherwise the WASD + mouse is perfect). You could also try making the character move at different speeds depending on how much the user tilts the left stick, like in regular action titles. Say for example that a puzzle needs you to sneak past a certain character or room, you would only press slightly on the stick to move.

  • @Hitman said: Fair enough :)

    I just hope that future titles will use a hot spot cycling system (when played with the controller, otherwise the WASD + mouse is perfect).

    Andrew and I are working on grabbing tech from our different projects and rolling them into a new system that all projects can use and extend in the future. This includes some form of hotspot cycling. You should see a lot more consistency between Telltale products in the future. I hope!

    @Hitman said: You could also try making the character move at different speeds depending on how much the user tilts the left stick, like in regular action titles. Say for example that a puzzle needs you to sneak past a certain character or room, you would only press slightly on the stick to move.

    This is one of those interesting programming tasks because it has to be done in lockstep with art. Guybrush's 180 degree turns were similar. Dave Bogan (important art guy) and I had to make sure that the 180 turn was fast enough that the player didn't notice control was being taken away from them, that the animation still looked good, and it blended into the walk reasonably when complete. Analog movement speed is similar. We'd need to have several run/job/walk animations, make sure they were all synchronized, blend between them, and so on. It's a big deal, and it takes a few people to get something like this to not be terrible.

    It makes sense to do something like this now that we're moving around using direct control, but I don't know if there's a push for it. While joysticks and drag-to-move supports analog movement, the keyboard does not.

    Would be fun to work on, though.

  • @[TTG said: Yare;168899']Andrew and I are working on grabbing tech from our different projects and rolling them into a new system that all projects can use and extend in the future. This includes some form of hotspot cycling. You should see a lot more consistency between Telltale products in the future. I hope!

    Would it be possible to modify the W&G stuff slightly so that the stick+mouse control that works so well in TMI doesn't fall back to how it was in W&G?

    Firstly, have the cursor appear on any mouse input and disappear on any controller input other than the left stick.

    Secondly, have the game start with auto-hotspot selection turned on (By auto-hotspot selection, I mean how a hotspot is highlighted automatically when you approach it). Any mouse input turns it off, and any controller input other than the left stick turns it back on.

    It would be awesome if you could implement this because it would solve the two main problems I have with playing W&G with stick+mouse.

  • @Shmeh said: Firstly, have the cursor appear on any mouse input and disappear on any controller input other than the left stick.

    Any mouse input turns it off, and any controller input other than the left stick turns it back on.


    Why not give an option in the menu to use the right stick as
    a) a mouse pointer, or
    b) a hot spot cycling system?

    That would be perfect and we would both be happy. I don't want the right stick to be automatically treated as a mouse! I want it to behave like the hot spot cycling system, just like in W&G. Or have the left and right bumper buttons act as cycling through the hotspots back and forth.

  • @Hitman said: Why not give an option in the menu to use the right stick as
    a) a mouse pointer, or
    b) a hot spot cycling system?

    That would be perfect and we would both be happy. I don't want the right stick to be automatically treated as a mouse! I want it to behave like the hot spot cycling system, just like in W&G. Or have the left and right bumper buttons act as cycling through the hotspots back and forth.

    I'm not sure why you quoted my post when making your comment. I don't particularly care what the right stick does. I just want to use the left stick with the mouse. Just to make my point clearer for those who missed the link I posted up thread, I'll quote the post I made about the control method I'm talking about. This quote expresses the problems that my last post is suggesting fixes for:

    @Hitman said: On my first play through I played the game with just the mouse. Other than the bit in the lab that forced you to use the keyboard, I was happy with the control. I've more recently tried playing with 360 controller and mouse. What I mean by this is, use the left analog stick instead of WADS and use the mouse for everything else. This gives you the awesomeness of point and click without being restricted to an eight point movement system.

    I had tried this with W&G and didn't really like it. This was due to the optimisations made for controller only support. Firstly, the game would try to hide the cursor with controller inputs because it is unnecessary and confusing when using the controller, and it would get the cursor to reappear with mouse inputs. This leads to a flashing cursor. Secondly and more importantly, the controller inputs caused the cursor to lock onto any hotspot you would walk near. This is quite convenient when playing with the controller only, but when playing with the mouse as well, the cursor would jump to another hotspot before you could click on it. This meant that you would have to stop walking before clicking on a hotspot, which is what put me off the control method.

    Back to TMI, these optimisations have not been included. This makes this method of control feel quite natural, and if the controls for future episodes are set up the same way, I think I'll play all the other episodes like this.

    In summary, the lack of 360 controller support has ironically made the controller the best input device for the game (when used in conjunction with the mouse).

    I don't mean to disregard your suggestion in any way, Hitman. It's a good suggestion. It's just your post made me fell like I had not expressed my own point clearly.

  • @smashing said: Wiimote removes the stigma of the hardcore gamers, typically perceived as a guy with reflective spectacles, eating the pretzels, scratching his backside and focusing on nothing in the world, but the screen and firmly gripping on his gamepad in one hand.

    Aside from eating pretzels (seriously, guys, real gamers only eat M&Ms) that basically describes me.

  • @Shmeh said: I just want to use the left stick with the mouse.


    So you preffer having 2 input methods instead of just a controller?

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