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Boycot the Hints

posted by Shish keJoe on - last edited - Viewed by 441 users

The game is out for like what..? 4 hours... put a little effort in finishing it yourself..!

I call for an official 48h boycott on giving information on this game!

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  • This reminds me of the old Sierra adventures. When people had way too much time, games were released seldom and far between and an adventure game greatest achievement was to occupy you the longest time possible.

    Even if it meant making you replay the whole game again and again each time getting a little further as you figure out the things you have to do in the first 2 minutes of the game that'll allow you to continue 10 hours in.

    WITH unskippable dialog all the way! Yay! Fun!

    I only searched for hints once. Because I was stuck with the turtle in the chest. I **SPOILERS** tried to speak with LeChuck and ask him to pry it off but Guybrush seemed pretty mad with the possibility so I dismissed it as something that our lovely protagonist wouldn't do for the sake of being insecure. Then I fumbled around the islands for hours trying to find what that crowbar should pry off, or what should be used with the crowbar to multiply the strength and pry the turtle off the chest, tried to fish in the fishing well for several minutes (still not sure why you can do it, other than an "I need better bait" dialog), and so on, admittedly with a form of rationalizing too tarnished with the absurd adventurers of old to try and do the most obvious in a different way.

    Then I come to the hints forum to find out that LeChuck will only pry it off for you (and that Guybrush will only accept LeChuck's help) if you offer the crowbar to him yourself, instead of just asking. Since up to that point I already played the game trying to get every quote possible and every conversation path, I hardly got anything more from the experience of being needlessly stuck because I didn't think of approaching a problem by doing exactly what the programers wanted me to (a simple nudge towards LeChuck at that point would be everything I needed, but the interaction with him suggested the exact opposite...).

    *** SPOILERS END HERE ***

    So what if I took 2 hours instead of 5 minutes before looking for the hints? That makes me any more of an adventure gamer than the other who'd do otherwise? It just proves I'm more obstinate than him and that he lost 115 minutes less with the same dilemma. I wouldn't say it was time wasted, but I sure could have spent it with something better than just hearing the soundtrack and appreciating the art style (they're good, but not 2 hours worthy good). SO WHAT if I only looked it up one time instead of 10. I sure as hell could have saved even more time at other points of the game as well. They were just smarter than me.

    I say this because I remember that when I tried to play these adventurers as a kid I never got much far. At the time I would get think I was stupid for that. I didn't realize that the adult man who got past where I was just had ludicrous amounts of patience and spent days with the problem I was faced instead of giving up in an hour (tops). Then after I was older, I tried these adventurer again and, guess what, they're still unmercifully hard. When comparing today these adventurers, the ones from Sierra just amounts to an exercise of frustration while the ones from Lucas Arts at least are still enjoyable even when they stop you on your tracks.

    Not too long ago I played the Discworld adventurer. I went from start to finish. It was a blast. I also solved about 70% of the puzzles with the help of an walkthrough. It didn't diminish the experience. Actually, it only enhanced. Because I wasn't so frustrated once I got a puzzle out of the way I could actually enjoy the cutscenes and jokes instead of just gazing in disbelief at the fact that I finally got past it and figured the twisted ideas of the programmer.

    So, basically, thank the Internet Gods for walkthrough and hints. Without them excellent games would just amount to unending frustration to most, and then tragically they would have that many people less enjoying them.

  • Reading the comments posted after my reply has made me change my mind about the boycott.

    TTG play testers cannot track all possible issues in the episodes, so players can get stuck on lots of different things. However, there's a big difference between hint and solution, which is not taken into account for in this forum.

    The main problem is that people ask for hints but are given the solution instead. Already, users have posted walkthroughs, even video ones.

    About Discworld:

    That game is nearly impossible to complete without any help because of the obscure lateral thinking. (ex. hat on fork to make a rope of several cloths , butterfly-effect on the lamp) The lack of dialogue with the annoying phrase "That doesn't work" for everything you did wrong, even if you were close to the solution. :mad: Hopefully adventure game creators have learned a lot from the flaws in that game

  • This post might have had a point, though I would still disagree, if Tales of Monkey Island (and adventure games in general) always had a clear, logical progression in their puzzles. The fact is that they don't. There are situations that are completely illogical and might only yield a solution after exhausting every interaction allowed by the game. This is not fun or rewarding and if people don't want to put themselves through the ringer because of bad design decisions they have every right to ask for or offer hints.

    The only thing that is 'pathetic' is the OP's attitude. People are entitled to enjoy the game however they see fit. If they need a helping hand to progress a little further so what? It doesn't affect anybody elses experience in the slightest.

  • Men (ie. Mankind in general) is a lazy breed.
    There are the bottom ringers; the laborers and the people who wanna work to achieve a goal.
    On the upper echelons; there are the leaders who just sit on there lazy ass and just leech of what the workers have accomplished.
    And on the word Leech you can quote me, please do!

    I take the harder paths to explore my endurance and pit my skill and intellect against what others made for me to beat. Thats how i define myself. I don't want easy roads, cheat codes, walkthrough or hints.

    I'll find my own way in games as I find my own way in life. But most of the people are so eager to play through a game or finish stuff that they forsake the hardship for the easy win. If you would think about life as you did about games, go kill yourself now death is inevitable.

    And if you just wanna follow the story and plot lines, Buy a Book!

    For me this topic is done as there is no reasoning with most of you.
    I'll just go and request a lock on this topic in the hopes that other whiners and flamers don't go about kicking this topic back up. (Just let it slip into the forum graveyard) For the people who wanna use hints and in my eyes ruin the game go for it download a walkthrough and follow it word for word; for thoose who like a challenge and played though it on there own: "I salute you with the highest regards"

  • the analogy to facing challenges in life is amusing :D
    you must physically be living in a "Second Life" world if you can compare your life difficulties to mouse clicks.

  • @jurg82 said: Reading the comments posted after my reply has made me change my mind about the boycott.

    TTG play testers cannot track all possible issues in the episodes, so players can get stuck on lots of different things. However, there's a big difference between hint and solution, which is not taken into account for in this forum.

    The main problem is that people ask for hints but are given the solution instead. Already, users have posted walkthroughs, even video ones.

    About Discworld:

    That game is nearly impossible to complete without any help because of the obscure lateral thinking. (ex. hat on fork to make a rope of several cloths , butterfly-effect on the lamp) The lack of dialogue with the annoying phrase "That doesn't work" for everything you did wrong, even if you were close to the solution. :mad: Hopefully adventure game creators have learned a lot from the flaws in that game



    Discworld 2 was a bit better, but the fact is that that game had a very interesting storytelling and was downright hilarious when you weren't stuck. However it was still made in a time where adventurers had that same goal I pointed earlier, even though it wasn't all that desired anymore.

    Still way better than the Sierra games. What can you say about a game where at some point you must figure out a completely RANDOM combination, random in the sense of it change every time you get to it, without any hint as to what the current combination is in the entire game?

    Still, I can't believe the OP is still clinging to his now demolished point. Well, good for you that you're such an obstinate person. You know what obstinate people get in real life? Lost friends, lost loved ones and lost jobs. They cling so long about something that isn't an issue anymore that everybody simply walks away. It is not an aspiration to better yourself, it's an obsession with being better than others. Parallels can be made in politics, but I'll not walk that road.

    post might have had a point, though I would still disagree, if Tales of Monkey Island (and adventure games in general) always had a clear, logical progression in their puzzles. The fact is that they don't. There are situations that are completely illogical and might only yield a solution after exhausting every interaction allowed by the game. This is not fun or rewarding and if people don't want to put themselves through the ringer because of bad design decisions they have every right to ask for or offer hints.

    Hmm... I might partially disagree here. Even though the game have quite a few instances of lateral thinking, there's usually enough hints and nudges in-game that it shouldn't be a problem making the connection. Still, it's not always (like the part I talked about) and not everyone can end up doing the same connection even with the right nudges. But overall, the game was fairly competent in trying to avoid getting the player too frustrated, and that's my point here.

  • @Shish keJoe said: Men (ie. Mankind in general) is a lazy breed.
    There are the bottom ringers; the laborers and the people who wanna work to achieve a goal.
    On the upper echelons; there are the leaders who just sit on there lazy ass and just leech of what the workers have accomplished.
    And on the word Leech you can quote me, please do!

    I take the harder paths to explore my endurance and pit my skill and intellect against what others made for me to beat. Thats how i define myself. I don't want easy roads, cheat codes, walkthrough or hints.

    I'll find my own way in games as I find my own way in life. But most of the people are so eager to play through a game or finish stuff that they forsake the hardship for the easy win. If you would think about life as you did about games, go kill yourself now death is inevitable.

    And if you just wanna follow the story and plot lines, Buy a Book!



    LOL, seriously? Do you even notice what you are typing right now?

    Not using a walkthrough doesn't make you a better person. It doesn't make you ~*edgy*~ or ~*speshul*~. It isn't a defining point of your character. (And if it is, God help you. How boring must that be? "Hi, I'm Rob. I'm thirty-two, have a pet dog named Fluffy and I DON'T USE WALKTHROUGHS LIKE THOSE LOSER CHEATERS.")

    You're playing a game. We're all playing a damn game. Let me repeat that: we're all playing a damn game.

    Just because someone needs hints means one thing, and I'll spell it out for you: they needed a hint. They aren't intellectually inferior. They're not losers in life. They don't shy away from challenges. They aren't pathetic. They aren't the people coasting through life. They aren't the people leeching off others.

    I would challenge you to come do one day of my classes. You would end up in tears. Or, for that matter, my sister's classes. How's your knowledge of human genetics or real estate law? Just because we both needed hints does not mean we are the idiots you would like us to be: IT MEANS WE NEEDED A DAMN HINT, usually because we were expecting the puzzles to be MORE complicated than they actually were.

    I know you're desperately looking for some fault in these people, because that's how you "define yourself" - you're looking for some way to put people down so you can feel better. So before you start calling us trolls and bullies, look to yourself, will you? You're so desperate to feel better that you're picking on people who play the same damn game as you, because that's how you "define yourself", by belittling others!

    If that's really how you see yourself, for God's sake, get off the computer and step away from the forum. Go to a charity event, go do some gardening, whatever, I don't care, but it's pretty clear that if that's what makes your world view, you need to expand your world.

  • I heard that Shish keJoe killed himself a bear when he was only Three years old.

  • @Shish keJoe said: Men (ie. Mankind in general) is a lazy breed.
    There are the bottom ringers; the laborers and the people who wanna work to achieve a goal.
    On the upper echelons; there are the leaders who just sit on there lazy ass and just leech of what the workers have accomplished.
    And on the word Leech you can quote me, please do!

    I take the harder paths to explore my endurance and pit my skill and intellect against what others made for me to beat. Thats how i define myself. I don't want easy roads, cheat codes, walkthrough or hints.

    I'll find my own way in games as I find my own way in life. But most of the people are so eager to play through a game or finish stuff that they forsake the hardship for the easy win. If you would think about life as you did about games, go kill yourself now death is inevitable.

    And if you just wanna follow the story and plot lines, Buy a Book!



    ...

    Did I just walk into "The Office"? I could swear I was reading a post by Dwight Schrute.

    You can't compare life to gaming, no matter how much you try to sound like a philosopher.

    If you would think about life as you did about games, go kill yourself now death is inevitable.

    Where do I even begin with this one? First, let's say, just for a moment, that games and life *could* be paralleled. Nobody makes it through life without help. To believe otherwise is incredibly foolish and naive.

    Second, "go kill yourself now death is inevitable."? Death is inevitable no matter how many hints you use in a game. In fact, death is more likely for those who shun support throughout their lives.

    Third, don't even fuck around with telling somebody to kill themselves, even if you don't mean it literally. Seriously, telling people to end their lives if they don't share your ridiculous ideals? You aren't that goddamn special. Get over yourself and learn some basic human decency. That statement isn't "edgy" or "cool", it's pathetic and beyond ignorant. You have no idea what kind of shit you could be dragging up when you nonchalantly toss around that sort of thing.

    (Note to the others: I apologize for my language. There are few things that truly piss me off, but our friend here has discovered one of them.)

  • I think this thread has more than run it's course, folks!

    If anyone wants to take whatever healthy discussion came out of this and start a new sub-thread about it, that's fine, but this conversation heavily devolved and nobody is benefiting from it. Thanks!

This discussion has been closed.