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LeChuck's Ship Scene - "Unbalanced Drama"?

posted by Mermaid on - last edited - Viewed by 584 users

Okay, since I saw that concept art of LeChuck's ship I couldn't wait to get to that part of the game and was AMAZED when I saw how great it turned out - the colors, the lighting - awesome. It set up an atmosphere that I last saw in LeChuck's Revenge, fearsome, powerful, dramatic.

So I was all in the mood and expecting some dark, dramatic evil scene there which actually did follow, but one thing I really found irritating was the dialogue between Guybrush, LeChuck and Elaine which, in my opinion, just didn't fit in there at many moments.

That whole Elaine turning into a demon scene is a shocker, even more so when she grabs that root beer bottle and sprays it at Guybrush (Dominic, again, doing a great job voice acting all that emotion into him).
So up to this point, there's nothing really to complain about, except maybe that I still found Earl's voice to be missing that punch he used to have for LeChuck's voice (different subject).

The scene in which Guybrush reappears as a Zombie though is where acting / dialogue get "unbalanced" concerning the drama of the moment:

LeChuck starts acting extremely cruel, weakening Guybrush with every punch, leaving him hardly enough strength to keep himself on his feet, let alone walk. While I kinda liked the brave comebacks Guybrush has at LeChuck, after a while I found them, say, unrealistic. We've never seen Guybrush in such a fragile, pitiful and suffering state, it just didn't match with his responses to LeChuck.

The bigger problem I had was the acting / dialogue between LeChuck and Elaine, though. To start off with, it seems that by now, LeChuck's lost all of his certain "evil, but yet gentleman" qualities. Which is: he's come down to hitting and killing women.

After Elaine leaves her demonic state and comes back to normal, she's literally battered to the ground by LeChuck (okay: after she's tried to kill him, but still). That doesn't quite go along with his deep love for her that drove him to win her heart in all those years, does it? Worse: some seconds later, he tells Guybrush that "Elaine's to be mine...to do the sewing and keep the house clean in case we have guests." Uh...no. Totally unfitting here.

Also the "Plunderbunny" / "Honey Pumpkin" dialogue between Guybrush and Elaine, which I actually find amusing most of the time, didn't really work here I think. There were a couple of more examples which I don't remember right now, though.

Don't get me wrong: There's a reason Monkey Island has been done and kept in a cartoonish style and the last thing I'd want to miss about this series is the humour that prevents the story from becoming all TOO dark. (Even I missed Murray in the finale!) But I kinda didn't like the combination of both, humour and evil, in that finale scene.
After all, there was no humour in Morgan's death scene, for instance, either, which is actually why it was appreciated so much.

Anyone feeling similar about this?

45 Comments - Linear Discussion: Classic Style
  • @pluizig said: That's been bugging me, too. If she knew about the ring as the solution to their final problem, she also knew Guybrush had to die (but her final scene in ep4 and her first in ep5 contradict this), AND know the exact workings of the super-secret afterlife-defying voodoo spell (extremely unlikely).

    Hm...well, it was LeChuck's spell, and LeChuck has been known to gloat every so often, so it's not too much of a stretch to imagine that she had gotten the information directly from him during one of her many captures.

    Perhaps she didn't tell him because she simply didn't want to scare him with the whole "oh, I think you might die, but do as I say anyway" plan.

  • I think people are misunderstanding what Elaine meant by her master plan. I don't think she was refering to the whole series, just from the point when she realised she needed to get her hands on the cutlass. Her 'master plan' was to get her hands on the cutlass by appearing to change sides, and pretty much that, what a lady can't exaggerate her role?

    Plus, how do we know Elaine isn't really an incredibly evil mastermind whose managed to elude suspicion all this time, just like the Voodoo Lady had been up until recently??? Dum dum DUM!

  • @Jazzy said: I think people are misunderstanding what Elaine meant by her master plan. I don't think she was refering to the whole series, just from the point when she realised she needed to get her hands on the cutlass. Her 'master plan' was to get her hands on the cutlass by appearing to change sides, and pretty much that, what a lady can't exaggerate her role?

    Plus, how do we know Elaine isn't really an incredibly evil mastermind whose managed to elude suspicion all this time, just like the Voodoo Lady had been up until recently??? Dum dum DUM!

    Well, ELaine does mention she just played along this LeChuch good guy ruse all the time. And one of the options after getting back from the Crossroads is to ask her if this was her master plan. She does as much as to affirm this. In my understanding, we're meant to think that she planned that all. Especially if we consider her giving Guybrush the ring back at Spinner Cay was so long ago... The explanation we've got is improbable, but the alternative is that she was putting her trust in dumb luck. And Guybrush's love, which could've (if not for Morgan's reassurance) been not enough.

  • In other words, like Guybrush, she didn't know what the hell she was doing, and just played along, expecting everything to come into place.

  • @GaryCXJk said: In other words, like Guybrush, she didn't know what the hell she was doing, and just played along, expecting everything to come into place.

    Do weirdass things without any calculation whatsoever, so everything will be just fine!

    I actually kinda liked the ending now. Good thing to know that Elaine shares the same philosophical view with Sam and Max.

  • Well, this is the Monkey Island universe after all.

  • Lord I loved the pirate ship. And crazy demon Elaine. The only thing that might have made the ship scene have a little better dramatic weight would have been some kind of musical change whenever LeChuck came around to punch you. Something with a faster tempo, or more ominous chords, to give more sense of immediacy to the situation. Instead the music just continued as normal, as far as I could tell. I'm convinced that the music was a big part of what made MI2's ending so scary--it changes from just vaguely ominous to completely intense and distressed-sounding as soon as LeChuck enters the scene. If there was something like this while on LeChuck's ship, I think the situation would seem much more scary. The fault certainly doesn't lie with the dialogue writers!

  • @Mermaid said:

    So I was all in the mood and expecting some dark, dramatic evil scene there which actually did follow, but one thing I really found irritating was the dialogue between Guybrush, LeChuck and Elaine which, in my opinion, just didn't fit in there at many moments.

    I agree that the particular dialog chosen didn't exactly strengthen the scene. When LeChuck tries mentioning Morgan to Elaine I couldn't help but be bothered by the lack of reaction from Elaine, or the fact LeChuck didn't even try to elaborate on the situation to break the couple apart.

    However IMO Elaine's dialog was the weakest. And the voice acting I found especially irritating, if not jarring, since it didn't matter if cannons were firing, if there was hell on earth, or if she was in a tropical paradise drinking lemonade, she always had a similar awkwardly content tone in her voice. Even when she was supposed to sound scared or worried for Guybrush in this last episode, I found the acting far less than believable. Especially in such direct comparison to Armato.

    @Mermaid said:
    I still found Earl's voice to be missing that punch he used to have for LeChuck's voice (different subject).

    I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one that thought this. That missing punch use to give LeChuck his character, I still don't understand what happened to it.

    @Mermaid said: LeChuck starts acting extremely cruel, weakening Guybrush with every punch, leaving him hardly enough strength to keep himself on his feet, let alone walk. While I kinda liked the brave comebacks Guybrush has at LeChuck, after a while I found them, say, unrealistic. We've never seen Guybrush in such a fragile, pitiful and suffering state, it just didn't match with his responses to LeChuck.

    Something I always liked about the original games (1-3, I ignore 4) was that no matter how bad a situation was in the game, you could still laugh in the game cause the humor had concise in timing and was witty enough to bring light to the situation. Here, I found that the comebacks had no meaning because the scene left me so distraught that my childhood hero was being tortured I couldn't find it funny. Especially since the fumbling controls made this part take 10 times longer to finish than it should have been.

    @Mermaid said:
    The bigger problem I had was the acting / dialogue between LeChuck and Elaine, though. To start off with, it seems that by now, LeChuck's lost all of his certain "evil, but yet gentleman" qualities. Which is: he's come down to hitting and killing women.

    I couldn't help but notice Rather_Dashings response to this, and it made me realize just how divided fans are between Monkey Island 2 and Curse of Monkey Island. I myself feel CMI was the peak of the franchise, and feel the evil but gentleman quality was much more interesting and fresh than the typical thick skulled brute portrayed in every other series you can name. I was thrown off when LeChuck hit Elaine. While yes he was being stabbed, I would have thought he would have tossed her once and have her tied up. He did it easy enough it seems in the first episode, but I guess her looking like the statue of liberty made her too much to handle in the neutralizing department.

    @Mermaid said:
    Don't get me wrong: There's a reason Monkey Island has been done and kept in a cartoonish style and the last thing I'd want to miss about this series is the humour that prevents the story from becoming all TOO dark. (Even I missed Murray in the finale!) But I kinda didn't like the combination of both, humour and evil, in that finale scene.
    After all, there was no humour in Morgan's death scene, for instance, either, which is actually why it was appreciated so much.

    This is where I disagree completely. This is my personal preference, but to me Monkey Island has NEVER been a game series about drama, and from the end of episode 4 onward I felt like the series was derailed into a realm that MI shouldn't be taken. Don't get me wrong, I could accept if MI had sad points and tension, but humor has always primarily defined the franchise from other games. There are few games out there that will make me literally laugh out loud anymore, and I appreciated games like Monkey Island for that. If Tell Tales wanted a game to go down this type of road "Full Throttle" would have been absolutely FANTASTIC for it. Where as MI should always be fun and entertaining, before it becomes a soap opera or and action thriller movie.

  • @Secret Fawful said: Well make no mistake. This is way darker and more sinister than LeChuck's Revenge ever was.


    This chapter surpassed Curse and Escape in that respect, but Revenge? Come on, nothing in here comes close to the "screaming chair".

    @Secret Fawful said: ...to me Monkey Island has NEVER been a game series about mellow drama...


    Grammer nitpick: the word is "melodrama", and "melo" refers to music, not mellowness.

  • @Fronzel said: This chapter surpassed Curse and Escape in that respect, but Revenge? Come on, nothing in here comes close to the "screaming chair".


    Grammer nitpick: the word is "melodrama", and "melo" refers to music, not mellowness.

    Fixed it, Sorry for that, I had never heard it used in its proper context it would seem.

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