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Now that we know the end of TMI, what's in store for MI6 (your ideas)

posted by DeLuca on - last edited - Viewed by 488 users

Okay, the assumptions (I know there are no facts to back this up) of this thread is that TTG will make another MI that takes place after TMI, and that Guybrush will be our main character.

What do you think/want to happen?!

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  • Elaine doesn't mentally abuse Guybrush. Where are you getting this from? She sometimes gets impatient with him, sure, but I don't think I've come across a couple that don't do that.

    He isn't privy to her plans, sure. But that's just because he'll screw them up. It's Guybrush, y'know?

    I sometimes think you guys are just upset she isn't submissive.

  • It's in Elaine's personality to be short-tempered and sassy, it's in Guybrush's personality to accept it and apparently like it. ("Generally I appreciate the sass..." -Rise of the Pirate God) I don't really see any abuse here, abuse would be making him feel a certain negative way about himself and as far as I know Elaine has never done that. (not counting when she wasn't herself)

    I'm not really sure where people get this master-lackey relationship thing from anyway. I certainly hope it wasn't EMI that planted it.

  • @PecanBlue said: I'm not really sure where people get this master-lackey relationship thing from anyway. I certainly hope it wasn't EMI that planted it.

    I think it's mainly Escape. She basically orders him around, makes some pretty mean comments about him, and punches him several times. But if we discount Escape as the two of them having a really bad week, their relationship is usually pretty balanced.

  • Here's the thing: she's completely, unquestionably in love with him (re-watch his death scene in chapter four, but focus on her: that shocked, disbelieving shake of the head will tell you everything you need to know), and he has literally returned from the dead to be with her.

    Do this: when playing Pirate God, fail to defeat LeChuck three times as he attempts to pass the void. Watch her reaction to it. Even excluding Alexandra Boyd's fantastic performance - man, it's just Elaine's attitude towards Guybrush in general that make her so loveable. She's totally independent and would probably kick substantial amounts of ass on her own, but when you get down to it she's also a very loving, sweet woman who'd go to the ends of the earth for Guybrush.

    She's maybe a little bit more timid now, though, than she was in SMI-CMI. She needs the next game to be a little bit more about her. She does fight a large amount of pirates and all that, don't get me wrong, but she almost always does it...what's the word I'm looking for? She hasn't pulled a monkey-in-the-gown prank in a while, I mean, but instead just fires a cannon at Hardtack and Trenchfoot.

    God, she must be hard to write, if also very fun.

  • @Otis said: Tough luck for Guybrush huh? But all the things said in that post were true, right?


    Yes.

    Also, I don't really get the "completely, unquestionably in love with him" feel even from ToMI.

  • @Chyron8472 said: Then again, previous MI games didn't spend a ton of time with her either.

    That's actually part of my point. I just focused on Tales to make it shorter

    @Chyron8472 said: Guybrush and Elaine's romance in the game doesn't have to be explicit, otherwise the tone of the game would change.

    I don't see why it has to be either "they're all over each other" or "they're rarely seen in the same room/island/plane". There are middle grounds, you know. He surely interacts with many other characters, why not his wife?

    @Chyron8472 said: Teading this it makes me feel like Guybrush is just being abused mentally by his wife.

    I've had that impression too, and I feel it's linked to the times we see them interact. I feel that if we saw them more it would give them more opportunity to be normal, and we'd see that Elaine doesn't just order him around thinking he's her man-thing. Because I'm sure she doesn't always do that. Only pretty much every time we see her.

    @Chyron8472 said: I'm not really sure where people get this master-lackey relationship thing from anyway. I certainly hope it wasn't EMI that planted it.

    Nah, Guybrush has always been more submissive and Elaine more dominant. But it's a tricky balance. Elaine can be pretty bad, in Curse she punches Guybrush in the face, I know she's pissed considering the situation, but it wouldn't be considered a valid excuse for a man punching a woman, so there is no reason it should when it's the other way around.

    @Chyron8472 said: Also, I don't really get the "completely, unquestionably in love with him" feel even from ToMI.

    Neither did I. The death scene made me burst out laughing, not feel sad. I didn't feel it was believable at all. Especially the "kick his ass for me" "from island a to island B my love", it felt like they were both trying to repress laughter or something.

    Oh, no, she looks shock and sad that someone is killed in front of her eyes, she must be madly in love with him! Never mind that she showed as much compassion from two complete strangers having a disagreement in chapter 2.
    Plus if it was a master-servant relationship, then yeah, she would miss him much if he died. She'd lose the guy she can order around and who lets her! That's hard to replace.

    Now, I don't think they actually have that kind of relationship, or mostly I don't want to believe it. But I can't say I've seen a real reason so far. They're only seen together when there is some kind of problem, and Elaine's response to problems is letting out her anger on her husband.

    Also, people keep saying that her poxed self is completely irrelevant, but don't forget that from everything we've seen, being poxed only made anger worse when it was already there, so I think she must think everything she said to some extent, the pox only made her more pissed about it, like she was having giant PMS or something.

    But my main problem with Elaine is and always will be the end of Tales. See, when she gave GB her ring, I though "oh, it lifted a curse once, she's giving it to him for good luck". But in the end she tries to pretend she had planned everything. Which either means:

    a) she knew Guybrush would die, she knew exactly how he could become human again, the requirements, she knew he'd have to sacrifice his shred of life so she gave him her ring so he could be back after all of that.
    In which case, I feel she has a crapload of explaining to do, both about "I know you'll die and have to go through terrible stuff in the afterlife but I'll stay away from you and give you a ring so after you've suffered a lot you can be back at my side and owe everything to me" and about "Oh, yeah, I actually know secret voodoo stuff that only a handful of people are even aware of"
    To be honest, at some point in Tales I felt Elaine actually WAS the Voodoo Lady.

    b) She's lying. She actually didn't know any of that and gave her ring for good luck as I originally thought. In which case she's letting Guybrush think she knows more than she does.
    Why? Well because she wants him to look up to her. Therefore retaining the "I'm better than you" relationship. And just the fact that she's lying to him is bad too. Plus it's a very pretentious and know-it-all attitude anyways.

    Both options make her very... un-nice, let's say, the first one moreso. But more importantly, they both involve trying to manipulate Guybrush.

    I want to say "oh no, it's option 3, she's just joking and he's taking it too seriously", but... Considering all the rest, all the other times, I just can't believe that at all. She should know her husband better.

    Also, we're led to believe that she never trusted the Voodoo Lady but didn't tell Guybrush anything because he wouldn't have believed her. Which means one of two things:

    a) Guybrush wouldn't believe his wife. Trust problem.
    b) Guybrush would believe his wife but she assumes he wouldn't. Trust problem.

    Either way, at least one of them doesn't trust the other very much. I'm enclined to say it's Elaine since Guybrush has always been under Elaine's power. Also, she doesn't trust him about Morgan, either.
    But truth be told, he does lie to her about Morgan being female. Once again, either he knows she wouldn't trust him or he does trust her to trust him. So trust issues.

    I think they have communication and trust issues, and I'd like to see a game where they spend more time together and rely on each other more.

  • @avistew said: Elaine can be pretty bad, in Curse she punches Guybrush in the face, I know she's pissed considering the situation, but it wouldn't be considered a valid excuse for a man punching a woman, so there is no reason it should when it's the other way around.

    In fiction, mostly comedy, it is just simply more acceptable to have physical abuse toward a male character from a female character (especially if said male character is a doofus) than the other way around. It wouldn't be very funny in real life, sure, but it's funny here, because it's a cartoon-like slapstick comedy videogame. This is probably because of the dominant numbers over men of the abuse of women in society throughout the years, so it would be considered more taboo for it to be the other way around. It's just the way it is. Though I'd like to think society is slowly edging more toward "physical assault is equally bad on both sexes" these days, so that say, less people find it acceptable for women to slap men, even if they did something wrong. Slowly, but I've seen it progress.

    Anyway, I think you pretty much explained your own statement. She punched him because of the situation. It's **COMEDIC TIMING**, I don't really think it reflects on their entire relationship, it was just there for a laugh. It's a little related to the Baldrick trope.

    Oh, no, she looks shock and sad that someone is killed in front of her eyes, she must be madly in love with him! Never mind that she showed as much compassion from two complete strangers having a disagreement in chapter 2.

    This comparison is too much of a stretch, she was emotional at the end of chapter 4, while in chapter 2 her attitude toward everything was a composed "we gotta fix dis crap."

    They're only seen together when there is some kind of problem, and Elaine's response to problems is letting out her anger on her husband.

    She's also let out anger on various other people, mostly LeChuck. She is just a short-tempered person, it is part of her personality.

    Also, people keep saying that her poxed self is completely irrelevant, but don't forget that from everything we've seen, being poxed only made anger worse when it was already there, so I think she must think everything she said to some extent, the pox only made her more pissed about it, like she was having giant PMS or something.

    Everyone has small things about their partner that bothers them, it is completely natural. It is part of a union to accept them and not want to change the person. Of course she'd exaggerate her annoyances while in that state, I mean it's the pox. Elaine was also in very close proximity when the pox was released, so it would make sense she's more berserk than everyone else.

    But my main problem with Elaine is and always will be the end of Tales. See, when she gave GB her ring, I though "oh, it lifted a curse once, she's giving it to him for good luck". But in the end she tries to pretend she had planned everything. Which either means: [etc. etc.]

    There was another thread where there was a whole discussion on this, and a writer came in and said the ring was complete faith. There was no planning with the ring and she absolutely did not plan for him to die. It creates a weird inconsistency at the end sure, but it doesn't make her seem like an evil, manipulating jerk.

    Either way, at least one of them doesn't trust the other very much. I'm enclined to say it's Elaine since Guybrush has always been under Elaine's power.

    And yet he didn't trust Elaine when she gave herself in to LeChuck as part of a ruse. Somehow he doesn't recognize when his own wife is acting. It doesn't matter much anyway, the whole trust thing was part of their conflict in Tales, I reckon it was solved by the end.

    Also, she doesn't trust him about Morgan, either.

    Say what?

  • @PecanBlue said: Anyway, I think you pretty much explained your own statement. She punched him because of the situation. It's **COMEDIC TIMING**, I don't really think it reflects on their entire relationship, it was just there for a laugh.

    I know. And in Curse, it didn't shock me that much. You see plenty of violence in Monkey Island anyways.
    But when every time they meet something like that happens due to the situation, it just gives a wrong idea. That's why I'm saying, I don't think it's representative of their relationship, but we get to see mostly things like that, and that annoys me.

    @PecanBlue said: This comparison is too much of a stretch, she was emotional at the end of chapter 4, while in chapter 2 her attitude toward everything was a composed "we gotta fix dis crap."

    Yeah. I guess I just didn't like the death scene. It seemed to me like it was trying to be overly dramatic and failed big time. I feel Elaine yelling "Guybrush" over and over had much less of an impact than if she had said something like "No, no, no" while holding her head in her hands or something. I mostly didn't like the way she was saying it. It's really the only scene I didn't like the voice acting for (Except for LeChuck, both human and not, who is just perfect).

    @PecanBlue said: She's also let out anger on various other people, mostly LeChuck. She is just a short-tempered person, it is part of her personality.

    Yes, I didn't mean that as "she mean to Guybrush only". Him being her husband, it would make sense that she would be herself more with him than other people, and that does involve snapping and things like that. But as I said earlier, my point is that I wish we didn't get to see them act like that mostly in such situations.

    @PecanBlue said: Everyone has small things about their partner that bothers them, it is completely natural.

    Once again, yes it's normal, but we get a high ratio of that when it's really a minimal part of a healthy relationship, and I'm sure of their relationship, too.

    @PecanBlue said: There was another thread where there was a whole discussion on this, and a writer came in and said the ring was complete faith. There was no planning with the ring and she absolutely did not plan for him to die. It creates a weird inconsistency at the end sure, but it doesn't make her seem like an evil, manipulating jerk.

    Which is good. I guess they added that in the end as a "Guybrush sees too much in it and Elaine lets him". Which still makes her sound like a "know-it-all" ("You should know I always have a plan") but at least that's not as bad. Still, I preferred when she sounded like a know-it-all by correcting "esponja" at the end, that was much funnier.

    @PecanBlue said: It doesn't matter much anyway, the whole trust thing was part of their conflict in Tales, I reckon it was solved by the end.

    I hope so. I really dislike the sitcom-like thing about misunderstandings that only happen because both parts of the couple lie to each other, thinking if they tell the truth it will lead to an argument. Which they both did to some extent (GB about Morgan, Elaine about the Voodoo Lady).
    I'm always thinking "that's not like real relationships work. You talk things through. You communicate. If you tell you spouse you happened to be standing next to someone of your spouse's gender, you know they won't assume you had sex with them, so you don't hide it".
    I can't imagine ever telling my husband "I'm going to go see a movie with a fiend and then grab some food" and consciously hide the fact that the friend is male, for instance.
    Actually, I can't imagine telling him that without naming the person, and either have him know exactly who I'm talking about, or explain it there and then "it's a friend from work" or "it's a friend I met online" or whatever.

    And if for some reason he thought it was a female even though I never hid the fact it was a male, and he realised later it was a male (which would happen when I told him about our day out, I mean I can't imagine never using the word "he"), I don't see anything further than "oh, I thought it was a female" from him.

    And it just beats me why anyone would would be hiding things like that would stay with a person they feel the need to hide stuff from.

    @PecanBlue said: Say what?

    I mean the "you smell like a female! I'm going to kill her!"
    She immediately assumes the worst. It's not like there haven't been other females before. Carla, Kate... Elaine doesn't strike me as an extremely jealous "no-woman-is-allowed-near-my-husband" type of person. And although it's true Morgan has a crush on him, she has no way of knowing that.
    I'll give you that Guybrush has been acting suspiciously, which bring me back to what I said above.

    Seriously, if my husband told me there was a woman who was in love with him, I'd only be sad that she's having a one-way love because I've been there before. There is no way I could be upset with her, especially considering her obviously good taste in men.

    I can see the "Guybrush is so completely oblivious that Elaine feels the need to defend him from her claws" but still, feeling the need to defend someone does still mean you don't trust them to defend themselves.

  • About the Morgan thing: she was completely poxed out when that happened. The pox would be an illness that transfers LeChuck's mannerisms on to other people, so it's mostly LeChuck showing through her murderous jealousy. I don't really think she's the jealous type normally. (and I hope they don't make her that way later!!!) LeChuck brings up Morgan and claims Guybrush had an affair of sorts to Elaine near the end and she's all "huh?" but doesn't even bring it up later.

  • @PecanBlue said: LeChuck brings up Morgan and claims Guybrush had an affair of sorts to Elaine near the end and she's all "huh?" but doesn't even bring it up later.

    I definitely hope she's not going to be all jealous and stuff. It certainly wouldn't have fitted at all if she hadn't been poxed, I don't think. Plus that would mean doing the same thing all over again.

    I think the "huh?" has more to do with the fact that she seems to have forgotten everything that happened while she was poxed. I don't see how they could have included her asking about that later in the game, to be honest. Which I'm glad they didn't, it would have seemed out of place. We can assume Guybrush mentioned Morgan, what happened, how she died, and everything off camera. We don't have to see Guybrush explain things that we already know happened.

    Anyway, my point is, the way she's been shown, I dislike Elaine. But it is normal to dislike some aspects of someone, and I can see there is more to her, and I want to see that side of her. I understand there is more potential for both story and humour when things go wrong but they can go wrong in ways that don't involve relationship problems.
    I was mostly indifferent to Elaine in the first two games. She was an independent, strong woman and that's always nice, but I felt we didn't see enough about her for me to really "know" her. She really felt like "the perfect woman who is head over heels for the hero for no reason we can see".
    Later, when we got to see more of her, it was always in situations when we didn't get to see her good side much. And often we didn't get to see her period.

    I can dismiss what I dislike about Elaine as being her bad side but I'm sick of seeing pretty much that side only. I wish we could see her interact with Guybrush more, see how they work together towards a goal and so on.

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