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The Next Chapter of TMI???

posted by Mardagan on - last edited - Viewed by 594 users

Can we get any hints about the possible goings on for the next installment of TMI???

The Rise of the Pirate God couldn't have been the end all say all.

Mardagan

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  • @Bagge said: Ok


    Off the top of my head, in addition to the obvious Walt (Disney) the dog reference:
    [LIST]
    [*]T-shirt as a prize for finding the treasure
    [*]T-shirt as a prize for defeating the sword master
    [*]There is a vending machine at Stan's place
    [*]"Staff Only"-door on Melee
    [*]Wiener hut on Scabb Island
    [*]The treehouses on Booty Island are nearly identical to the Swiss Family Treehouse in Disneyland
    [*]Big Whoop turns out to be an E-ticket, a ticket that gives entrance to theme parks after hours
    [*]Dinky Island = Disneyland
    [*]Everything that happens after you meet LeChuck at the end of MI2 takes place in theme park maintainance tunnels
    [/LIST]

    Here you go.

    Ok, I've got some more info about the ending to MI2 from andygeers' video 'The OTHER Secret of Monkey Island' which gives interesting info about what Guybrush's past could be.


    :The feather pen you can buy in the shop on booty island when looked at Guybrush says 'That looks just like the one from my parents wedding!' suggests that Guybrush's parents were married after he was born.

    :The skeletons of Guybrush's 'parents' may not be Guybrush's blood relation at all. It just prooves that 'Dad' is Lechuck's father, otherwise Largo could be Guybrush's brother, too.

    :In the torture chamber, you can ask Lechuck 'where do babies come from' and he will reply 'In your case, the orphanage.' This suggests that maybe Guybrush is an orphan.

    : Now, the last idea is that everyone in the monkey island universe is trying to help Guybrush unlock the big secret that his parents were murdered, and that the Vooodoo Lady is like a sort of psyciatrist.

  • @Bagge said: WTF is a pretty common exclamation when you are surprised by something.


    Usually in the negative sense. You don't say "What the f***, that's such an awesome surprse" (well, most don't).
    Here you go.
    Yeah, that's what I said before, you only got 2 theories posted, and one is CMI's. You mentioned many other theories. Just 1 is pretty poor.

    Also @ OzzieMonkey: So, you're saying the entire story of MI is made up by a lunatic in a madhouse?
    I certainly hope not, that sounds pretty stupid. Maybe you guys would think that an epic ending, but I would pretty much think if the story of MI would be ruined like that.
    "Oh, everything you did. Didn't made a darn difference. It was all a story in someone's head. Forget epicness! Who cares about that now, right?"

  • @Hassat Hunter said:
    Yeah, that's what I said before, you only got 2 theories posted, and one is CMI's. You mentioned many other theories. Just 1 is pretty poor.

    There's three of them, just count them. Do a quick search on Google or on these forums to find dozens more.

  • @Hassat Hunter said: Lemme see.
    "I Stab You - Oh, hey you are human now", "UNHOLY THIS - I am undead now", "I plunge a sponge in a rift - I am a demon now!" is an extremely good explenation, unlike "I have been blown up by a cannonball made of pure voodoo, reincarnating as some evil demon being"?
    I ain't quite seeing it.


    Someone was apparently sleepwalking through the entire thing. LeChuck turned human due to an improvised Voodoo spell. It was intended to kill or vanquish LeChuck, so the spell was already intended to do SOMETHING. But one or a few of Guybrush's improv ingredients didn't work quite as well as the real thing, and we went from killing LeChuck to making him mortal. Certainly a step back, but hardly inexplicable, especially considering Guybrush's history with improvised voodoo ingredients(the Largo doll, for instance, only working at a distance).

    I'm not even sure how I'm supposed to argue the assertion that BEING MURDERED makes you DIE. It's sort of self-evident. When you are killed, you die. In a world filled with ghosts, you become a ghost when you die. Hell, Curse had LeChuck building a ghost army by killing people, so even if you dismiss the plots of every other game in the series(as you seem to), and thus consider Curse to be the only valid and intelligent entry in the series history, then Curse does explain that you DIE when you are KILLED, and when you die in the Monkey Island universe you become a ghost. That I had to type this makes my head hurt.

    The sponge is a Voodoo Sponge. It absorbs Voodoo. It was placed at the nexus of all Voodoo. Absorbing lots of Voodoo makes you powerful. The magic was passive, just sitting there, waiting to be taken in the purest possible form.

    On the other hand, being blown up by a voodoo-powered weapon that is intended to kill and destroy, rather than act as either passive storage or an active aid, it just seems silly. It wasn't planned, LeChuck came back because he bungled into it, like some incompetent moron stumbling toward success.

    I suppose he hasn't learned, because in ToMI he stills goes forward with plan A (Voodoo Bomb, Monkeys) instead of taking care of Guybrush.
    Once again I ask, why is ToMI allowed, and CMI crucified for this?


    Certainly, subterfuge and evil plots are a good deal different than "throw him in a box downstairs". And when he DOES reveal himself, and he's now the active and known antagonist, he's smashing Guybrush around the ship, just like the classic confrontations of the first two games.

    So, Curse is crucified for that because they're completely different situations.

    I am pretty sure before that there's an "Incoming.... aaaargh" and everyone flees while LeChuck blows up a cannon preceeding that.


    Right. No real damage done, and LeChuck continues sobbing and being, in general, harmless. I suppose you could consider "he broke my cannon" to being equivalent to real damage and loss of human life, but I just don't see the equity.

    And LCR apparently, so much you don't even mention them. There is a laundry pirate after all, and a spitting contest and who knows what else I cannot remember just now.


    Wait, so spitting contests is a civilian profession now? Do pirates not spit? I'm sorry, I don't see this thing as something that doesn't fit.

    Mad Marty is somewhat similar, I suppose. But I can probably forgive the guy, considering his huge eyeglasses and inability to hear. I'm also pretty sure he's not actually a pirate, considering he doesn't accept bribes. It's kind of like accusing Stan of being a pirate due to the hat. They're just themed shopkeeps, probably dealing with mostly pirate clients.

    You said it yourself. It took a turn for the horribly absurd. Personally, I can't see that myself in CMI. The barbers for example still act deadly serious, even if that can bring a smile to the gamers face by their singing, Guybrush comments etc.


    A freaking theatre troupe. Banjo-dueling. The other two barbers are mostly fine, except they're barbers. And they sing. Possibly the Cabana Boy, though as an employee of the resort he's probably not actually a retired pirate. The owner of a chicken restaurant. The island has a freaking kid selling lemonade on it.

    Or a souvenir shop, a big party, a woodcutter's worship, a library...


    Okay, I can see you thinking that Mad Marty is meant to be a pirate, but the LIBRARY LADY?

    I'm pretty sure that the rest of them are just those things, not "pirates that do those things and have those act as their overriding defining character trait".

    Actually, I would totally not mind if I hated the ending of the previous book (and hate is no understatement for the ending of LCR). Rather have it somewhat ignore it that actually continuing on to it, ruining the entire series, don't you think. That's probably why ToMI didn't continue EMI's story but started fresh.
    Also, I once again wonder why, here too, ToMI gets no flak for what you think are horrible, horrible flaws in CMI.


    The problem with Escape's ending was that it ACTUALLY didn't make sense. Not your version of nonsensical, but the real definition of the word. In which an ending doesn't make sense because it goes back and contradicts established series facts. LeChuck's Revenge didn't do that. For example, the Marley Revelation would have worked...if the plot of the games hadn't shown that this was actually impossible. That's why that aspect so disliked. Also, Tales takes place a good number of years after Escape, rather than right afterwards. You can assume that the problems "fixed themselves" in the interim. Not so with Curse, and you really couldn't "just do that" with Curse because it had a BIG REVELATION at the end that REQUIRED further exposition, where Escape cleaned up nicely at the end(and so it's acceptable to move on from it).

    Hmmm... are you sure you're not confusing "storytelling" and "drawing style". Just because it's drawn the way it is doesn't automatically make the characters act as cartoons with a similar style.


    While the art style is indeed a problem, no that is not what I was talking about in the slightest. I could forgive the art if it wasn't for the change in the way the story was told. LeChuck was a bungling villain, rather than actually scary. Guybrush changed in a more subtle(and fairly forgivable) way. The world itself became "goofier". The first two games were often funny and even bizarre, but the overall strokes of the story was "serious", if a bit simple for the most part. LeChuck was evil, and willing to do terrible things, and rarely felt like a stupid villain(there is the odd exception, like the wedgie joke which I'm not particular fond of in LCR).

    And LCR's aren't? The cook, stan, wally, largo, the woodcutter, elaine, the cook of the mansion, I could probably go on. The fact a large portion of actors in CMI come from LCR and/or SMI should already tell much.


    You mean the way many characters from the Prequel Trilogy are taken from the Original Trilogy? We have Obi-Wan, Yoda, Darth Vader, the Emperor. Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts N' Bolts is pretty widely disliked. Why? Obviously there is no difference, because a good deal of the original cast is back around again. The new Matrix films. Batman and Robin.

    Cast says squat, especially when the cast drastically change appearance, are given voices for the first time, and their mannerisms are altered beyond recognition by a new script.

    More than that, none of them were goofy as a rule. The thing that puts Largo on the list, for example, was a gag, and one that only worked because he otherwise is so threatening and tough. He did not go "WELL I AM GOING TO STOP YOU NO--DARNIT MISSED WELL I GUESS I'LL LEAVE NOW." You had to actively repel him with wits. He was a threat, and that was shown in the game mechanics(by needing to stop him through a three-stage puzzle) and the story(by having him beat up Guybrush at the start, for one).
    Bright colorscemes and are completely unrelated to lack of drama. Think LOST for example, set on a tropical island for crying out loud.
    I once again, like a broken record, ask why ToMI is forgiven for this, yet CMI crucified. ToMI isn't dark at all. Yet it contrains drama and a sense of realism. Oh, just like CMI. Even if it's all showered in a comedy sauce.
    Or did you hate ToMI after all...?
    You can't tell a serious story in Bikini Bottom, nor in the vistas of a Dinsey toon where the scenery itself dances and smiles at the viewer. Let's look at the closing scenes of Secret, Lechuck's Revenge, Curse, and Tales.

    Secret of Monkey Island's ending takes place back at Melee, at night. You've just crawled out of Hell and now you're going back to the start of the story to finish the job. Note that Secret has a lot of brighter and goofier scenes, but when it comes time to get dramatic, the color palette changes.

    LeChuck's Revenge has an ending that occurs within dark maintenance tunnels. We have skeletons, and a zombie chasing after us, trying to kill the hero with voodoo. Note that LeChuck's Revenge has brighter scenes, but when it's time to get serious, the color palette and scenery change.

    Tales takes place on LeChuck's ship, with a giant stone tower rising from the deck. The scene is dark. LeChuck's attacks are downright brutal, sending Guybrush flying. He's TOYING with you, savoring every hit. You know he can kill Guybrush at any moment. He's scary and intimidating for the first time since LeChuck's Revenge, and I really enjoy it.

    Curse's ending..takes place in a theme park. With Guybrush as a kid. "BUT IT'S OKAY IN LECHUCK'S REVENGE, HYPOCRITE" is the obvious response, so I have to clarify that yes, there is a rather large difference between them. On one hand, the theme park after LeChuck's Revenge is AFTER the dramatic scene. It wasn't an ending, but the climax, which requires vastly different storytelling. Rather than a surprise and a mystery, it was one of your final puzzles. And rather than being something original, it was something ripped out of the ending to MI2 to try and tangentially link it to one of the first two games, like tossing the exact same swordfighting puzzle into it. So basically, it was bright, it was not tense, it it was not a mystery, and did not work as a climax.

    You cannot possibly tell me that setting and lighting have absolutely no affect on the ability to pull off a dramatic story.

    Oh, nevermind. It looks like you already answered my question and dislike ToMI too. Sucks to be you, since it looks unlikely the next MI won't be season 2 and pretty much like ToMI as a result...


    Ah, crap. That was actually me putting Tales instead of Curse. My error. I'm actually pretty cool with Tales, on the whole. Good stuff. Needs better puzzles(something Curse actually did fairly well), but the story and voice acting work really well and the cinematography/setting design all works really well. Basically, a good step up from Curse and Escape.

    @Hassat Hunter said: Why do people say that LCR was better cuz it was darker? I don't get that.


    The same reason Citizen Kane is on the top of the American Film Institute list, along with The Godfather, and Casablanca...while The Graduate, Forrest Gump, and City Lights are lower. It is the dramatic story that involves you, it is the dark story that makes you think. Now, I would never call LeChuck's Revenge "dark", but it is relative to "Gumdrops and Rainbow Land" Curse. And it has a twist at the end that presents a mystery. "What was that?" is the first response, and in trying to figure it out, you think about the two games more intently. You get more out of it. Okay, the "you" is misplaced here, but I hope you understand the "you" to be a general more general "people" label.

    ...why is it that the posts on this thread are getting looooonger and loooonger and....

    It's like I'm reading an online news article.


    I know, isn't it awesome?

    @Hassat Hunter said:
    At least it works better than "oh, I had Ozzie kill off Marley, so now I owe him one."


    Haha, I suppose so. Granted.

    Well, you can blame Gary Coleman for the voice. And I think the reason that people accept the pirates in Curse but not in Escape is that even if they're more domesticated, they're still more authentic than most of what you see in Escape. Maybe some of it is the art style, but a lot of it is that everything in Escape has a more commercial feel to it. Particularly the law offices, the bank, and the three establishments on Jambalaya Island. Lawyers, banks, franchise coffee shops, theme restaurants, and micro groggeries not only fail to capture any sort of piratey feel whatsoever, they feel out of place in the games' time period, not to mention Stan trying to sell freaking timeshares. This is a series known for silly anachronisms in unexpected places, but those locations are so prominent and so out of place that the suspension of disbelief totally disintegrates. Maybe the inhabitants of Plunder don't really act very piratey, but at least you get the feeling that most of them have either been or tried to be pirates in the past, and none of them are very good at their other endeavors. And none of them are running a damn perfume stall.


    I suppose I can see that. I disagree, certainly, but it's understandable. I mean, the(admittedly agreed-upon) theatre troupe, a kid selling lemonade, a resort complete with annoying Cabana Boy, and a chicken restaurant. Seems to me the seeds of overindulgence in the anachronisms thing were pretty solidly planted in Curse, and Escape is maybe a couple steps further along.

    @Hassat Hunter said: LCR, KOTOR2 and Fahrenheit are liked DESPITE their endings, not due to their WTF endings.

    I've lost track how many times I played KOTOR2 cause it's a good game. I hate the anticlimactic ending and start to lose interest when I get to the last planet though.


    KOTOR II is a really poor example. They had development pulled out from under them. They PLANNED another ending(a really cool, dark, epically depressing ending), and it was taken from them when LucasArts decided they needed SOMETHING out for Christmas. Also, Fahrenheit had really wacked-up storytelling throughout. While out there, I don't see much wrong with

    @Hassat Hunter said: "Oh, everything you did. Didn't made a darn difference. It was all a story in someone's head. Forget epicness! Who cares about that now, right?"


    "Everything you did?" That's ridiculous.

    Here, since the value of your "work" means so much for you, I'm going to crush your heart:

    You sat on your ass for however long it took to complete a video game. Nothing you "did" mattered to anyone real. You were occupying yourself with mass-produced entertainment. Your reward for solving a puzzle was the advancing of another part of the story, and moving on to the next puzzle. You don't make any difference to the disk, to the world. Everything waits on the disk, the advancement of time and changes in the world are only thanks to a save file on your computer and a series of programming checks. "Did he do X? Then do Y". And so on, through a series of similar things. But I assure you, the world exists in all forms on the disk. Puzzles complete, puzzles incomplete. It just chooses what one to show you based on progression.

    Guess what?

    You are playing through a story in someone's head. Well, multiple people, who then put the story into code on commission. Sorry you can't get what you want. I suggest you learn the difference between fiction and reality quickly, because the distinction is going to be invaluable in the future.

    The way I see it, unlocking a surprising ending at the end of a game is a far greater reward than being given the same god-damn feel-good ending that Hollywood has been spoon-feeding a mass market that can't handle more than focus-group approved, generic slop.

  • You know, there's a couple things bugging me about LeChuck in Tales after reading these arguments. If Guybrush turned LeChuck human by stabbing him, why wasn't LeChuck dead from being human and having a sword stuck in him? And if the sponge is a powerful voodoo object that sucks the voodoo out of anything it comes into contact with, how did LeChuck absorb the voodoo without it being pulled back out of him?

  • @GuruGuru214 said: You know, there's a couple things bugging me about LeChuck in Tales after reading these arguments. If Guybrush turned LeChuck human by stabbing him, why wasn't LeChuck dead from being human and having a sword stuck in him? And if the sponge is a powerful voodoo object that sucks the voodoo out of anything it comes into contact with, how did LeChuck absorb the voodoo without it being pulled back out of him?


    Monkey Island Voodoo has never been particularly well-explained. The first one is a bit harder to explain, other than "He was still changing form when the sword was pulled out" or some cop-out answer like that.

    But the sponge seems a bit easier. For one thing, the sponge was pretty much filled to the brim. It didn't continue to grow, filling the entirety of the crossroads. It had a limit, and it hit that. When you squeeze one end of the sponge and take out a little pressure, it's going to equalize from the side that's constantly pumping out voodoo power rather than the side that just had some pulled out. Also, LeChuck's been planning this particular instance for awhile, and he apparently has been hoarding Voodoo magic for ages. He probably knows a thing or to about obtaining and retaining Voodoo.

  • I'm still seeing a few holes in that explanation. First, the physical size of the sponge isn't related to the amount of voodoo it's holding. It didn't grow when it absorbed Guybrush's pox, and it grew before absorbing the rest of the pox, not the other way around. Certain voodoo spells affect both its physical size and voodoo capacity, but other than that, the sponge's size is fixed. And second, isn't it mentioned more than once that the mature sponge has an "infinite capacity" for voodoo? You could argue that they don't know for certain that it has no limit, as nobody expected it to be exposed to a voodoo source as large as the Crossroads, but now we're just speculating.

  • @GuruGuru214 said: I'm still seeing a few holes in that explanation. First, the physical size of the sponge isn't related to the amount of voodoo it's holding. It didn't grow when it absorbed Guybrush's pox, and it grew before absorbing the rest of the pox, not the other way around. Certain voodoo spells affect both its physical size and voodoo capacity, but other than that, the sponge's size is fixed. And second, isn't it mentioned more than once that the sponge has an "infinite capacity" for voodoo? You could argue that they don't know for certain that it has no limit, as nobody expected it to be exposed to a voodoo source as large as the Crossroads, but now we're just speculating.


    Ah, dammit. I suppose your thinking at what is 2 in the morning for me is a good deal better than mine is. But you're right, on all counts. The size relates more to the "Capacity" than anything.

    Still, it obviously stops sucking up voodoo at some point. After all, all the Voodoo of the Crossroads isn't constantly flowing out while the sponge is in the rift. Why?

    I think the most easiest explanation is that the sponge IN THEORY can soak up infinite voodoo, but its size correlates to its "appetite", and it can only "eat" so much at once/at a certain size.

    Of course, we're all kind of pulling at strings to try and figure out something that may not have been adequately explained or thought out.

  • Eh, it's midnight here and I barely got any sleep last night, so my brain's pretty sluggish right now too. Add to that the fact that since yesterday, I've been constantly thinking about different designs to build a marshmallow gun out of PVC for a competition, and it's a wonder that I can discuss Monkey Island coherently right now.

    @Rather Dashing said: Of course, we're all kind of pulling at strings to try and figure out something that may not have been adequately explained or thought out.

    You're right, but at the same time, I feel like that statement can be applied to a large portion of the things we talk about on here. Besides, I'm no stranger to pulling at strings.

  • @GuruGuru214 said: Eh, it's midnight here and I barely got any sleep last night, so my brain's pretty sluggish right now too. Add to that the fact that since yesterday, I've been constantly thinking about different designs to build a marshmallow gun out of PVC for a competition, and it's a wonder that I can discuss Monkey Island coherently right now.


    A worthwhile endeavor if I've ever heard one.

    You're right, but at the same time, I feel like that statement can be applied to a large portion of the things we talk about on here. Besides, I'm no stranger to pulling at strings.


    Oh sure, I could compare myself to you in this regard. But I'd rather not be pulling at strings so fervently and intently that I commonly get confused for a puppeteer.

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