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  • Personally, I never (I think) got an "auto-solve" glitch, but I did once or twice accidentally solve a puzzle.

    I don't think Telltale should take the time to fix the puzzles that can be solved without realising it, but the glitched ones definitely need to be fixed at some point.


    You really took the time to write this, and get the details about everything. Well done.

  • @NeatNit said: Personally, I never (I think) got an "auto-solve" glitch, but I did once or twice accidentally solve a puzzle.

    I don't think Telltale should take the time to fix the puzzles that can be solved without realising it, but the glitched ones definitely need to be fixed at some point.


    You really took the time to write this, and get the details about everything. Well done.



    Same, I didn't get any solver bugs. I tried some of them during my second or third runs. But I would bitch about it A LOT if that happened during my first playthrough. So that's why I kinda used some sort of empathy and wanted to make a topic like this.

    Well, I still think solving a puzzle with considering every detail of it gives the most satisfaction. So if they ever want to iron out more nefarious bugs with some sort of updates, they may throw in some less important things like I listed there, to make the gaming experience better. Just saying and all~

    Well, I'm not bragging or anything, but after completing like 2/3 of the entire thing I pressed Preview button and it gave me a white screen, then when I pressed back it erased the whole thing, so I had to type it twice. I still think it worths. Well, thanks a lot!

  • @Falanca said: Well, I'm not bragging or anything, but after completing like 2/3 of the entire thing I pressed Preview button and it gave me a white screen, then when I pressed back it erased the whole thing, so I had to type it twice.

    Ah, we've all been there :(

    That's why when I write a big/important post, I always save it in a txt file before I click anything.
    But right now I have a new problem - I keep clicking one of my extra mouse buttons accidentally to do forward/back :(

  • @NeatNit said: Ah, we've all been there :(

    That's why when I write a big/important post, I always save it in a txt file before I click anything.
    But right now I have a new problem - I keep clicking one of my extra mouse buttons accidentally to do forward/back :(



    Yeah, I'm using a lot of forums for at least 7 years and still haven't got used to that Notepad thingie!

  • I would just like to put it briefly: I strongly disagree. I loathe it when you pick the right solution, but the game refuses because it's forcing you to fail first. A good example was in 301, where you have to trick the gorilla to fall down in the manhole by slipping on a banana. If you try getting the banana peel from the trash can *without* having watched it in future vision, Sam will just go "It'd be a lot easier if I knew what I was looking for" or something like that. I absolutely hated that moment, Sam was like a helpless drooling retard.

    Every Sam & Max puzzle can be solved by more or less trying random events because you can never truly fail - you simple have to try again from the beginning. A good puzzle will lead you to the most logical attempt, then give you "heh, you didn't think it'd be that easy?" moments. If you just try random things or just exhaustive option-clicking and somehow get it right, then fine. That's failing as a player, not failing as a game.

    I do agree on one point though, it should be more obvious that you can "activate" Max. Like in the last episode, I didn't understand that I should destroy the corn dog pile by "looking" at it because it'd make transformed Max tear it down.

    P.S. If you put spoilers in the subject, I think spoilers all over the text is redundant. This thread will be very annoying to read otherwise.

  • Nice write-up Falanca. I didn't really get so many of these problems in the first two episodes, but in the 3rd several of them hit me!

    Let me just add a couple of things to your list:

    Episode 2: The Tomb of Sammun-Mak

    1. Sometimes, the Can-o-Nuts would be visible on the tray during the cutscenes of Kringle poking his head out of the door, even tho Sam and Max were still stood there. This basically spoiled the solution for me because it showed me I was going to use the can there! This comes under "spoilery glitches" rather than "auto-solving".


    Episode 3: They Stole Max's Brain!

    1. Noir/interrogation. Don't get me wrong, I *loved* this sequence. But it got kind of spoilery due to used options getting grayed-out. After I'd gone through all the sequences several times and used all the options, everything was grayed out; then when I found out some new information the "You're lying!" option would suddenly be in white again, so it was obviously the new option. Working through dialog puzzles just by seeing which options have been used and haven't made me feel like I wasn't actually solving a puzzle intelligently.

    The other problem that sometimes happens (and in other dialog sequences as well, not just noir) is when I'm trying to pick the wrong answers, but accidentally I stumble on the right one! This happens sometimes when puzzles aren't totally logical, I can't think of a specific example but it did happen once or twice in noir.

    The grayed-out dialog options are generally quite useful when you're trying to get all the gags out of a normal conversation, it helps avoid repeated lines. But I think when a puzzle is centered around dialog it can help a bit too much.

    2. Museum. I tend to wander around and click on everything... so I didn't realise the significance of having to use the monster diaorama to hide it before I set up my own fake one; it was either hidden already, or a game glitch made it irrelevant.

    3. Corn dog pyramid. The only puzzle I actually got stuck on in this game was the credit card. Basically, because I'd already used the corn dog pyramid to get toasters banned, I assumed that would be the only use for it. I was trying to work out how I could get the card directly off Frankie, or somehow substitute Max for his card, or something like that. Telltale don't usually repeat puzzle solutions like that, so I really wasn't expecting it. When I read on the hint forum "you have to make credit cards illegal" I was like OH *facepalm*.

    4. Skunkape fight. I should add that I didn't even see the molemen help at the end (I was expecting them to be involved somehow and was looking for it, for whatever reason I just didn't even see it happen, again it's possible that a game glitch meant I won the fight even though the molemen had actually been zapped by Sammun-Mak). So I was left at the end feeling confused about the purpose of a whole bunch of things.

    Overall I think some of the puzzles in this episode lacked the depth we're used to in Telltale games. I think basically by taking the inventory away, it's result in lots of "click on this to get an effect" centric puzzles. Certainly an interesting change, but it means there aren't enough different combinations of things to try. Inventory items are kind of an instant multiplier of possibilities, making it much harder to complete something by accident!

    It's started feeling more like watching an entertaining cartoon, than actually having much to interact with and solve. Except I have to spend ages clicking through all the options to find the good gags, whereas on a TV show they're just served up to you. It is still highly entertaining of course! But I think with new puzzles based around dialog and superpowers, you still need some inventory in the mix to vary the options.

    P.S. If I've written a long post, I usually just press CTRL-A then CTRL-C to copy the whole thing to memory before I submit it. Then I can just CTRL-V to paste it back in if there's a problem and it gets lost! This happens all the time on all kinds of websites, so it's a good habit to get into. It's saved me from tears on more than a few occasions :)

  • I encountered some of those, too.

    [quote]-Getting rid of Skun'ka-pe's minions inside and around Momma Bosco's building.[/quote]It totally confused me at first. Of course, what you see makes sense, but it didn't feel like a puzzle was solved.

    [quote]-Final confrontation with Skun'ka-pe where he holds onto a pipe to avoid getting sucked into the Penal Zone.[/quote]Like you said.

    [quote]-In Reel 2, using one bust on two bust carvings to reveal a straight path.[/quote]Interesting. I didn't even realize that you could go through the blades door without "busting" it first.

    [quote]-Making Frankie not use his credit card AND gifting Sammun-Mak something rare.[/quote]While it didn't spoil a puzzle for me, I can see how this could easily happen. I didn't run around as something shape-shifted for no reason, since it looked really silly.
    And I agree on picking up Max could solve things. In fact, I first tried picking up the toaster and give it to Sal instead of just talking to him.

    [quote]-Fight against Skun'ka-pe.[/quote]While it certainly wasn't a hard puzzle, this one didn't feel wrong or confusing to me. I tried the available options and observed, and concluded what event would lead to what, which ultimately happened. I agree, that you could easily solve this puzzle with just random clicking, though.

  • Most of the stuff listed here are just gamebugs though, not badly designed puzzles.

    It seems TTG can't cope with the increased complexity of the TTG engine or gets pressed for QA time, releasing buggier and buggier games, which is a shame.
    Actually releasing patches could help here, no idea why they don't do that...

  • Wow. How long did that take to write down?

  • @Hassat Hunter said: Most of the stuff listed here are just gamebugs though, not badly designed puzzles.

    It seems TTG can't cope with the increased complexity of the TTG engine or gets pressed for QA time, releasing buggier and buggier games, which is a shame.
    Actually releasing patches could help here, no idea why they don't do that...



    I think it's a mixture of the two; there are certainly bugs causing problems, but then there are also puzzles that can be solved by accident thru being too easy.

    Either way, I'm sure TTG are acknowledging the various feedback surrounding this series, and will also improve the stability of the engine in the future. Obviously there has recently been a massive upgrade; increased complexity coupled with porting to Mac and PS3 platforms has perhaps stretched their QA department a little thin!

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