User Avatar Image

Movie plotholes/ The only thing that doesn't add up

posted by Dangeresque on - last edited - Viewed by 5.7K users

This is the greatest trilogy ever made (i dont consider the godfather a trilogy cause 3 sucked). everything in this movie was well thought out, all the events and the going back and forth were perfect (especially if you watch them around 15 times each and pick up all the small details :p )

the only thing that think didnt add up in this movie was the fact that Marty's parents doent remember him. i mean sure its 30 years later (speaking of the 1st movie) but even if for only a week he was still a huge influence in both their lives right? when he started getting older wouldnt they start saying, hey wait a minute, this guy looks really familiar.

Worse yet wouldn't george suspect loraine of cheating on her with marty? i mean calvin marty in the late 60s?

just a stupid point. it might make no sence but its something that popped to my head and figure i'd share it. of course dont mean no offence to the trilogy

364 Comments - Linear Discussion: Classic Style
  • User Avatar Image
    Sinaz20 Telltale Staff

    @Dangeresque said:
    the only thing that think didnt add up in this movie was the fact that Marty's parents doent remember him. i mean sure its 30 years later (speaking of the 1st movie) but even if for only a week he was still a huge influence in both their lives right? when he started getting older wouldnt they start saying, hey wait a minute, this guy looks really familiar.

    Worse yet wouldn't george suspect loraine of cheating on her with marty? i mean calvin marty in the late 60s?

    just a stupid point. it might make no sence but its something that popped to my head and figure i'd share it. of course dont mean no offence to the trilogy


    Who's to say they don't know?

    Maybe George and Lorraine wisened up sometime early in Marty's childhood when he accidentally set fire to the living room. Maybe they suspected-- certainly a sci-fi author like George could imagine the possibility.

    Maybe Lorraine one night broached the subject with George-- they laughed at first, then sat in silence for half an hour processing it.

    Lorraine suggests they ask Marty about it. George, being well versed in such science fiction concepts says "No! We can't... he doesn't even know about it yet! One day, when the time is right, he'll feel the need to tell us. Until then, we can't warn Marty or acknowledge it... his very existence may depend on it!"

    dun DUN DAAAAAAA DA-DA-DA-DAAAA-DA-DAAAAAaaaaaaaaa

    ...

    I'm not sayin'-- I'm just sayin' :cool:

  • User Avatar Image
    ttg_Stemmle Telltale Staff

    @Sinaz20 said: Who's to say they don't know?

    In my heart of hearts, I always believed that the penny eventually dropped for George and Lorraine. Considering how much they'd built up their "kiss of destiny" BEFORE Marty altered the timeline, it would be weird if they completely forgot about "Calvin Klein" in the new timeline.

    I figure the "WTF" moment would occur either sometime in 1977, when they go see Star Wars, or in early 1985, when Lorraine is out buying new underwear for Marty...

    And yes, they WOULD keep it a secret.

    Mike "'Cause the Dinner Conversations Would Be AWK-ward" Stemmle

  • @ttg_Stemmle said: I figure the "WTF" moment would occur either sometime in 1977, when they go see Star Wars...

    Maybe George McFly meet George Lucas somewhere and told him the story of the "real" Darth Vader, and then Back to the Future is actually the source of Star Wars, in one of these funny filmic time paradox (the soldier of the future being John Connors' father, Captain Kirk pawning in Star Trek IV the glasses that Dr. McCoy give him in Star Trek II, etc...)

  • User Avatar Image
    Sinaz20 Telltale Staff

    @Javi-Wan Kenobi said: Maybe George McFly meet George Lucas somewhere and told him the story of the "real" Darth Vader, and then Back to the Future is actually the source of Star Wars, in one of these funny filmic time paradox (the soldier of the future being John Connors' father, Captain Kirk pawning in Star Trek IV the glasses that Dr. McCoy give him in Star Trek II, etc...)

    I actually imagine that the Star Wars films were very traumatic for George. Like his friends are all, "oh man, Star Wars is such an amazing epic movie!" And George is like, "I don't like horror movies." And his friends just stare at him.

    Similar... I imagine George watching Star Trek and, with wide eyes, mouthing "Planet Vulcan???"

    I'm sure Marty's stunt turned out to be totally therapy worthy.

  • @Sinaz20 said: I actually imagine that the Star Wars films were very traumatic for George. Like his friends are all, "oh man, Star Wars is such an amazing epic movie!" And George is like, "I don't like horror movies." And his friends just stare at him.

    Similar... I imagine George watching Star Trek and, with wide eyes, mouthing "Planet Vulcan???"

    I'm sure Marty's stunt turned out to be totally therapy worthy.

    Yeah I was always wondering about that...
    On the other hand, I wonder if he remembered the names right while writing, considering his book getting released in 1985 (quite some time after the initial appearence of marty).
    The Calvin Klein thing, I imagine, would turn out to be a nice anecdote "Maybe he was that guy from back then".

  • What I found strange though was how Marty was the only one who didn't change at all, while his parents and siblings did. Surely growing up with a completely different family would make you different person. But that's where Lorraine and George might come into play... knowing that Marty HAS to meet up with Doc at that night in 1985 (maybe Doc even told them before Marty was born) to even exist, they might have steered his life towards that moment.

  • User Avatar Image
    Sinaz20 Telltale Staff

    @Laserschwert said: What I found strange though was how Marty was the only one who didn't change at all, while his parents and siblings did. Surely growing up with a completely different family would make you different person. But that's where Lorraine and George might come into play... knowing that Marty HAS to meet up with Doc at that night in 1985 (maybe Doc even told them before Marty was born) to even exist, they might have steered his life towards that moment.

    That's because the Marty we follow into the new 1985 never lived that life. The Marty that experienced the new and improved life jumped back to 1955 the night before, just before Doc revealed the taped up letter to our Marty.

    We've discovered that the Back to the Future time travelling relies less on sciency accuracy and more on dramatic presentation.

    The whole one timeline vs. multiple timelines is a particle/wave sort of theory in the movies. Sometimes you fade in and out as though you are effecting your own timeline, and sometimes you are trapped in another timeline even though the general circumstances are the same.

    Consider that when Marty first goes back to 1955, he is worrying about his own future and fading in and out, suggesting that he is effecting the timeline he came from and not the new one he created.

    However in BttF2, when they go back to 1985B, they some how go back to Biff's altered timeline rather than their own... then Doc goes ahead and explains a time travel theory that seems to contradict their current predicament-- they should have initially traveled back to their non-rich-Biff past rather than into 1985B, 1985B should have been a timeline inaccessible to them... in Biff's new timeline, time-travelling Marty and Doc should have been a non-issue.

    ...but, dramatic effect dictates otherwise.

    Particle/wave.

    This is something we are constantly reminding ourselves in story meetings-- It's ok that so-and-so doesn't quite gel with timelines because the dramatic payoff outweighs the tiny plot discrepancy.

  • @Sinaz20 said: That's because the Marty we follow into the new 1985 never lived that life. The Marty that experienced the new and improved life jumped back to 1955 the night before, just before Doc revealed the taped up letter to our Marty.

    We've discovered that the Back to the Future time travelling relies less on sciency accuracy and more on dramatic presentation.

    The whole one timeline vs. multiple timelines is a particle/wave sort of theory in the movies. Sometimes you fade in and out as though you are effecting your own timeline, and sometimes you are trapped in another timeline even though the general circumstances are the same.

    Consider that when Marty first goes back to 1955, he is worrying about his own future and fading in and out, suggesting that he is effecting the timeline he came from and not the new one he created.

    However in BttF2, when they go back to 1985B, they some how go back to Biff's altered timeline rather than their own... then Doc goes ahead and explains a time travel theory that seems to contradict their current predicament-- they should have initially traveled back to their non-rich-Biff past rather than into 1985B, 1985B should have been a timeline inaccessible to them... in Biff's new timeline, time-travelling Marty and Doc should have been a non-issue.

    ...but, dramatic effect dictates otherwise.

    Particle/wave.

    This is something we are constantly reminding ourselves in story meetings-- It's ok that so-and-so doesn't quite gel with timelines because the dramatic payoff outweighs the tiny plot discrepancy.

    Now I'm worried! ;) The guy designing the game doesn't seem to have a solid grasp of the "Time Ripple Effect" by which the newly created timeline gradually replaced the old timeline, expanding slowly "outward" from the point of divergence, and generally reaching the time travelers themselves last. It doesn't make real-world sense, but it makes Back to the Future sense.

    And the Time Ripple Effect did eventually catch up with Marty. In his confused argument with Old Biff in the Cafe 80s in BTTF2, he agitatedly defends his father (not realizing that Biff was talking about Future Marty). He very specifically says "George McFly was never a loser," words chosen to suggest that by this point, our Marty remembers growing up in the new, cool-George timeline.

    Marty's fading out in BTTF1 is the result of the Time Ripple Effect as well, as the new timeline he created when he stopped his parents from meeting, the timeline in which he was never born, began to replace the timeline that he came from, erasing him from existence. Marty and Doc faced basically the same issue in 1985A: the world had already been "replaced," and if that ripple caught up to them, the time machine itself risked eventual erasure as well. I don't quite understand why you think that Marty and Doc should have landed in the timeline that they left from... although depending on the "speed" of the time ripple they could easily have landed in 1985 before it changed or while it was changing. But the speed of the time ripple does seem to vary at the movie's convenience.

    Oh God why do I even know this? Carry on

  • User Avatar Image
    Sinaz20 Telltale Staff

    @LuigiHann said: Now I'm worried! ;) The guy designing the game doesn't seem to have a solid grasp of the "Time Ripple Effect" by which the newly created timeline gradually replaced the old timeline, expanding slowly "outward" from the point of divergence, and generally reaching the time travelers themselves last. It doesn't make real-world sense, but it makes Back to the Future sense.


    Respectfully, I believe I do have a grasp... and that grasp is that the rules change based on what the story needs. There are those that argue for multiple parallel time lines, and those (like Bob Gale) who argue for just one timeline that keeps getting rewritten... even though it tends to go both ways.

    And the Time Ripple Effect did eventually catch up with Marty. In his confused argument with Old Biff in the Cafe 80s in BTTF2, he agitatedly defends his father (not realizing that Biff was talking about Future Marty). He very specifically says "George McFly was never a loser," words chosen to suggest that by this point, our Marty remembers growing up in the new, cool-George timeline.

    You should watch that scene again (btw, I have the movies instantly available to review... so I'm double checking everything ;),) because he's getting ready do defend George McFly who just yesterday he had finished helping converting from a loser to a winner. He's still quite the original Marty who is still adjusting to his new family.

    Marty's fading out in BTTF1 is the result of the Time Ripple Effect as well, as the new timeline he created when he stopped his parents from meeting, the timeline in which he was never born, began to replace the timeline that he came from, erasing him from existence. Marty and Doc faced basically the same issue in 1985A: the world had already been "replaced," and if that ripple caught up to them, the time machine itself risked eventual erasure as well.

    ...and by that logic, wouldn't Marty sort of fade to Switzerland, and Doc fade to an asylum? Are they separate from the timeline or part of it? There was no indication that Doc was worried about time ripples catching up with them. He just felt they had to go back to 1955 to remove the almanac from play.

    I know there was supposed to be a scene where Biff fades out in 2010 and Hill Valley starts to transition as Doc and Marty flee... But in 1985B, what's taking the ripples so long to take effect? (I have this interesting idea I'll explain further down.)
    I don't quite understand why you think that Marty and Doc should have landed in the timeline that they left from... although depending on the "speed" of the time ripple they could easily have landed in 1985 before it changed or while it was changing. But the speed of the time ripple does seem to vary at the movie's convenience.

    When Doc explains that they are in timeline B, he states that going forward in time would result in 2010B, and so you've got to go back to 1955 just as timeline B is beginning to diverge to remove the catalyst. So, going back from 1985B, you end up in 1955-proto-B.

    Therefore, if you went back in time from 2010A, you should just end up in 1985A, because 1985B is an entirely different timeline... If the timelines were highways, Marty and Doc are driving down I-10 west, while Biff drives back up I-10 east, then he turns around at the I-210 west junction. If you drive back to some intermediate mile marker to intercept Biff... you are still on I-10, while Biff is on I-210.

    What I was getting at is that Doc specifically describes discrete timelines and doesn't say anything about "time ripples." However, he totally ignores the idea, when he draws his timeline diagram, that they should have time jumped back to 1985A. The simple diagram totally suggests that that would happen... he draws the skew from 1955, but doesn't draw some sort of 'ripple' showing the DeLorean leaping from timeline A to B. Watch that scene again... it is a plot hole.

    4th dimensionally it makes sense to me... but then, I took a philosophy class in college devoted to the study and perception of time in media and culture... so I've been trained to overthink it. But if you have something to cite, let me know... change my mind!

    Oh God why do I even know this? Carry on

    So, that idea about ripples... I had brought up the idea that photos and stuff go fading in and out because the results of the photograph are based on decisions being made by people... if they are convicted to a destiny, then the photo is perfect. If they are convicted to something other than their destiny, then the photo is erased. If convictions are wishy-washy, then things fade in and out.

    However, if someone does something decisive, then the future just changes-- BAM. George shoves the guy at the dance and kisses Lorraine, and BAM, Marty is 100% all of a sudden. Again-- dramatic effect.

    Particle/wave.

  • I won't concede any of my arguments, but your ability to argue it on this level has given me a lot more faith in the project :D (Although your use of 2010 instead of 2015 is alternately worrying and intriguing)

    I will comment on this though:

    When Doc explains that they are in timeline B, he states that going forward in time would result in 2010B, and so you've got to go back to 1955 just as timeline B is beginning to diverge to remove the catalyst. So, going back from 1985B, you end up in 1955-proto-B.

    I understand what you were going for, now. Thing is, you can't exactly follow any one person's timestream, you can only follow the time machine. And in that case, the issue isn't that it took Marty and Doc back to 1985-A, the issue is that it took Biff forward to 2015 Prime in the first place. It should have taken him to 2015-A, by Doc's very logic, so Marty and Doc couldn't have gotten the time machine back at all if the timelines were really split like that.

    Although that does fit pretty well with the "there's only one timeline" theory, it also fits with your "when it's convenient" theory ;)

    (oh hey, that was brought up earlier in the thread. context has changed, though)

    Also pretty interesting is the fact that Doc felt comfortable enough to leave Jennifer in 1985-A, believing (apparently correctly) that the world would "change around her." It's made clear that Marty-A and Doc-A are far away and unable to interfere, but no real mention is made of Jennifer-A. Her dad's car from the first movie is at the house, suggesting that it's still her house, so how weird would that be if her alternate self or alternate dad found her out there. Strange that Doc didn't even bring that up given how worried he was about her meeting her future self, but I guess he just figured that the problem would either resolve itself when they restored the timeline, or just wouldn't matter at all if they failed :p

Add Comment