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POKER NIGHT: Poker rules issues in game

posted by poingpoing on - last edited - Viewed by 2.4K users

the blinds are being done incorrectly when it gets to heads up play.

during heads up play in texas hold'em the small blind is supposed to be the button and the big blind is the other player. the button/small blind acts first pre-flop and acts last post-flop. currently in the game, the button is big blind during heads up play, and this leads to the button having last action pre-flop AND post-flop.


I hope someone from telltale games can see this and patch the mistake.

113 Comments - Linear Discussion: Classic Style
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    divisionten Moderator

    @Bunnyman said: I got an A-10 straight while the heavy had two pair but somehow he won the pot.

    I am confused about this. Has it happened to anyone else?

    If there is more than one pot going, this is possible. They only announce the winner of the largest pot- but you still won some money.

    Next time this happens, look at your chip count. It should still increase.

  • @HoboStew said: We only announce the winner of the biggest pot. If there is a side pot with a different winner, that wont get called out, but the money should all be in the correct place. You can get into some crazy sidepot situations and we didn't want to spend 10 minutes calling out a bunch of names when the pot resolves, so we took the shortcut of just announcing the winner of the big $$$

    This actually creates some problems in some situations. Suppose the following (ignoring blinds in this example to make the math easier):

    You're almost out of chips at the beginning of the hand, and you go all in with $500. Max sees your $500 and raises $5000, and Strong Bad calls the $5500. After the flop, Max bets another $5000, and Strong Bad folds. So, Max will win the side pot (now $15000). After all the cards are dealt, though, in a rather suspenseful and dramatic-looking showdown between you and Max, it turns out you win the hand and the main pot. However, because Max won the really big side pot, it announces that he's the winner (which would normally mean that you're out, but in this case you actually tripled up).

    I'm fairly certain that 95% (or more) of the complaints you all are getting about the game picking the wrong winner of a hand is related to announcing the winners of side bets. Fix the winner announcement problem and you solve all those other problems.

    Seriously, it wouldn't be that hard to go through and announce the winner of each side pot and have them rake in some chips as it goes through. "Max wins the side pot!" or "Tycho wins the third side pot!" or whatever. Even if the same character wins more than one side pot, just announce each separately. It's also more fun, because each winner gets to give some snide remark when they grab their chips.

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    divisionten Moderator

    @serializer said: Hey all,

    I had a slight issue with a rule that doesn't seem to be covered here (although it could potentially be related to some of the unexpected wins described)

    In Hold 'em, the winner is the player who can make the best 5 card hand out of the 7 available. However on one particular hand the game awarded a winner when it should have been a split pot.

    I can't remember the exact cards but it was something like this:

    Table: 6, 6, 10, Q, K
    Me: 10, 4
    Heavy: 10, 9

    So, we both have two pair. The game awarded Heavy the win, presumably due to his 9 kicker - but the 9 and my 4 weren't in the final hands. We both had the same best 5 cards: 10, 10, 6, 6, K. If there are better cards on the table then the kickers aren't used.

    From what the moderators are saying it doesn't sound hugely likely these rules issues will get fixed but has anyone else seen this?

    Sometimes kickers are used to determine a tie when two players have the same hand. Just sayin'.

  • @divisionten said: Sometimes kickers are used to determine a tie when two players have the same hand. Just sayin'.

    Cards that don't wind up in the five-card hand assembled from your hole cards and the board are not considered kickers. In the previous poster's example, both players had the same two pair, with the same kicker being the high card from the board. (The previous poster shouldn't have described the Heavy's hole card as being his kicker, because it isn't.)

    My question would be, did it announce the Heavy as the winner, but then split the pot anyway? Or did it actually give him the whole pot?

  • I actually had a problem when I went to the menu during the card dealing. After I can back I realized I only was given one card, a queen. Mind you I never actually played the hand but it was weird that I was only being shown one card so I ended up folding. I wish I had screenshot it but I figure it was a random fluke, but i'll mention it here.

  • @divisionten said: Sometimes kickers are used to determine a tie when two players have the same hand. Just sayin'.


    Yes, but sometimes the kickers come from the board and the kicker in your hand doesn't play. In serializer's example, both serializer and the Heavy would have TT66K. Neither the Heavy's 9 nor serializer's 4 even come into play. Now, if one of them had an ace, that would play, because it beats the king on the board.

    As for whether this actually happened as described... no idea. I've seen somebody on the Steam forums complaining about the opposite "problem", where they didn't realize that their kicker doesn't play. So I would guess that it does in fact use the board cards for kickers properly.

  • @divisionten said: Sometimes kickers are used to determine a tie when two players have the same hand. Just sayin'.

    Yah, I understand the rules (as explained in my post). Read again :) You don't always take the kicker into account, for instance in the situation I outlined, where you can make a "best 5" cards without the kicker.

    To really simplify things, let me boil it down to a really obvious example;

    Cards on the table: Four aces and a King.
    Cards in your hand: a two and a three.
    Cards in opponent's hand: a four and a five.

    Who is the winner? There isn't one - it's a split pot, because you both have the "Four aces and a King" as the best five cards you can make. The cards in your own hands just aren't used.

    Edit: furrykef probably explained it more succinctly :)

  • @furrykef said: I respect your position as a moderator, but I have to say I have two issues with this.
    1) How do we know they are properly evaluating the merits and demerits of implementing the rule in a patch if we don't discuss them openly? I mean no offense to the designers' intelligence here, but that this issue occurred in the first place tells me that it should be explained.

    2) This thread is called "Poker rules issues in game" -- i.e., how PNatI fails to implement the rules of poker properly. Since we're discussing a rule that it fails to implement properly, I think this discussion is very on-topic. If we don't discuss stuff like this here, then what's this thread for? :confused:

    Fair call.

    It just looked like the 3 of you were heading off on a tangent and arguing with each other, rather than addressing the situation in the game. You really need a Telltale employee to step in and comment on the situation you're discussing, or else the 3 of you could have carried on all night.

    One of you three had conceded in the end, but carrying on wasn't going to fix the situation in the game. I've seen enough discussions of this nature take a turn for the worst, so I hoped to temper the discussion so that that sort of direction was less likely.

    It's all worked out great, you guys made a few more good points. Everyone's aware of the situation, and nothing got out of hand. There are a bunch of new posters here, and while us mods (well, it looks like I'm the only one who's been on for a while) can second guess the intentions of a lot of the people who have been around a while when a fast-posting discussion erupts, we need to have a slightly more cautious outlook when it comes to new posters. Especially during the huge spike in traffic that comes with a new release.

  • @langri said: Ok, I thought I knew poker, but this hand has me baffled.

    Strong Bad finished the hand with: 8 8 A Q 10
    The Heavy finished the hand with: 8 8 A 10 6

    The game stated that The Heavy won the hand.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't Strong Bad have won this hand with the better kickers? If so, this is a SERIOUS problem.

    Yeah, I had a similar thing happen to me, except it was with me and Max and Max "won".

  • Ok, what the hell is a side pot and what causes it to be made?

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