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posted by RAnthonyMahan on - last edited - Viewed by 310 users

As I'm sure you all know, the style of the old Sierra adventures like King's Quest is drastically different from the "Exploration shouldn't be punished" philosophy employed by LucasArts (and later Telltale). The slightest step out of line can easily kill you, or even worse, render the game unwinnable, usually with the game's narrator making snarky jokes about your suffering.

I'm not trying to be another one of those complainers going "Telltale can't make a proper King's Quest game because they've never done something like that before!" Instead my question is...how do you want the game to be done? Would you like a return to full-on Sierra sadism, or for Telltale to stick with the friendly approach they've always used so far?

I'd personally like if there can be a little bit of both. Don't get me wrong, I want this game to be frustratingly hard, but stuff like unwinnable situations are just too much. And in the era of auto-saving, I think death should be treated the same way as in The Tomb of Sammun-Mak: you're immediately taken back to where you were before.

What do you think?

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  • I think Stephen Fry would make a kickin' narrator for King's Quest if Telltale could snag him. :^)

    One of the things that defined Kings Quest for me was that it tended to give you all its puzzles at the same time. You'd wander around Daventry (Or wherever) and encounter problem after problem that needed solving, but they could be done in a number of different orders in a number of different ways. You might know what you need, but not have it, or you might not even know what you need, but see the solution while working out a different puzzle.

    Hey! How about that old point system? I'd love it if Telltale brought that back, opening up lots of ways to solve the puzzles, but giving the highest scores for the more clever solutions.

    I know it would NEVER happen, and for many good reasons, but wouldn't it be awesome if Telltale could incorporate a text parser (Maybe as an advanced option?) I wouldn't know what a Uvula is today if I hadn't had to figure out what it was I needed to tickle back in Kings Quest IV. :^)

  • They're not all brutal. They're not all that bad. Not even King's Quest 5 is that bad. For most of the puzzles people complain about it just takes some common sense to figure things out.

    Like the scene with the cat, the rat, and the boot/stick. I mean come on. You've walked past that screen hundreds of times and only ONCE you see this cat chasing a rat. You can't walk during this sequence but you can use your eye, hand, and inventory objects. Obviously that means SOMETHING. And the fact that the cat catches the rat and runs off to leave you with nothing should automatically dawn the realization that you screwed up here somehow because that obviously wasn't supposed to happen. Honestly, the way I was brought up playing adventure games that's the first thing that would hit my head. I'd immediately restore back and try to figure out a way to stop that cat. And since I can't walk I must obviously have to throw something at the cat to stop it. What's a great inventory object to throw? Hmm a stick...a boot...both of those things work! And if I don't have them yet I'm obviously not ready for that scene and so I'll search around for some other inventory object that might work before I attempt going into that screen again.

    This is what I mean about active thinking as far as adventures are concerned. Sure some things are illogical in the real world, but in an adventure game there is a whole new set of logical reasonings that you play with. Half the problems people have with Sierra-style games they have because they don't have this mindset of explore everything, save all the time, leave no stone unturned, take notice of everything. Even the game manuals say these exact words for crying out loud! It's not like they were utterly cruel about it. They presented a game they wanted players to explore and discover and figure out on their own .And that experience is far better than being handed everything.

    I realise this isn't popular nowadays because people (obviously) don't have these mindsets anymore and that's sad. But at least take a step towards that with this KQ reboot. I don't want a movie game with a Telltale King's Quest. I want an interactive story that can go in either direction, that has consequences for actions (or inactions), and with dangers around the corner that I don't know exist. That's an adventure game, or more importantly, that's a true King's Quest.

  • @Psychotron7x2 said: In the mid-nineties they started taking mercy on people and removed dead-ends and allowed you to die but gave you the option to restart at the same spot (I'm not sure about Kings Quest but it was the case with Space Quest and LSL).



    Dead ends persisted until KQ5, after which were largely phased out (thankfully). Restarting at the same spot after death was *only* present in KQ7 I believe, of the entire Sierra catalog.

  • I vote for a middle ground. Death is fine with me, I absolutely want the challenge, but dead-ends need to go die in a hole somewhere.

  • As long as a very real sense of real-world danger is present which the game does not try to protect you from I'd be happy. Dead ends, death sequences, consequences, alternate paths. Whatever. I'm happy with any or all of it. Yes I LIKE it.

  • @Psychotron7x2 said: Somewhere in between. Old school Sierra games are completely brutal and I don't think anyone wants anything that challenging again. In the mid-nineties they started taking mercy on people and removed dead-ends and allowed you to die but gave you the option to restart at the same spot (I'm not sure about Kings Quest but it was the case with Space Quest and LSL).



    I would be very happy with something like this. KQ7 is my favourite, maybe just because of this function.

  • I would love to see Sierra-style. Keep everything intact regarding deaths (maybe King's Quest 7 style would be a good middle ground) and difficulty but cut out the dead ends if you must or do it like these guys did and make them optional.

    @MusicallyInspired said: And if I don't have them yet I'm obviously not ready for that scene and so I'll search around for some other inventory object that might work before I attempt going into that screen again.

    I never got this scene unless I was abl to save the rat. I don't think it triggers unless you have the items you need to get rid of the cat.

  • @thesporkman said: I agree that a narrator is essential. The problem is figuring out how best to present narration in a more cinematic-looking game. Long passages of narration work great in non-voiced games with minimalistic graphics; you can just sit there reading a big block of text at your leisure.



    I actually take this a step further - I feel that most of the Telltale games I've played, and most adventure games in general over the last decade, have way too much spoken language of every type including dialogue. I have often thought the same thing you believe about long blocks of text in the old days possibly being okay - when you're reading, you're engaged. When you're sitting and looking at characters speak on a computer screen, you're not. You absolutely cannot have as much spoken text in a game now as there was written text in games 20 years ago.

    There's the old adage "show, don't tell", generally referring to movies. In other words, try to have things happen visually or in the natural course of the plot rather than having characters explain things. With video games, this should arguably be "play, don't show". Telltale is behind even where motion pictures are, let alone games.

  • @KuroShiro said: Dead ends persisted until KQ5, after which were largely phased out (thankfully). Restarting at the same spot after death was *only* present in KQ7 I believe, of the entire Sierra catalog.

    If I remember correctly, in GK3 you restart at the same spot after death, too.
    That said, I don't mind if this new King's Quest by Telltale has deaths. I don't even care if you don't restart at the same spot or you have to pick a previously saved game (or restart all over if you didn't saved at all). Usually, Telltale's games have several autosave points. I think a good solution would be to go back to the last autosave point if you die.

    But please, please, PLEASE: No dead ends!!!

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