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Traditional animation vs. 3D animation...

posted by Leplaya on - last edited - Viewed by 3.9K users

I am not that big of King's quest, but I have seen bits of pieces of the games. The only game of King's quest that I remember playing was the 7th one, and that one was the Princeless Bride. I'm not that big into the animation of that one(Since I dislike it when people mimic the Disney style) but my sister likes it and it reminds her of Don Bluth's style. I know the game is likely to be done in 3D but will there be certain parts of the game that will use 2D? Or even better, used for the cutscenes of the game? It would be sweet if that would happen.

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  • @icedan said: btw, 3D graphics these days are still as terrible as they have been for a long time. I have a strong feeling most graphic designers do not want to use 3D to make their games because they know it downgrades the overall quality, in other words, it has no feeling, no character, art requires finer touches than modeled shapes and rendered textures.

    Now see...I agree with you about 2D adventure game graphics having a certain unmatched charm, but this statement just reeks of baseless bias. There are some absolutely STUNNING games out there that use full 3D graphics. Red Dead Redemption, Mass Effect 2, Skyrim (can't wait for that one), etc.

    The main problem as I see it with adventure games and 3D graphics is the matter of character control.

    Telltale's engine sucks balls when it comes to controlling the character. Seriously, it's just about the worst thing ever designed. The click-drag-move control scheme is absolutely broken any way you look at it. An abomination of video gaming control schemes.

    I understand the logic behind it--that traditional point and click doesn't work well in 3D environments with cinematic camera angles like Telltale uses in most of their games, but seriously...someone needs to be slapped for coming up with this control scheme as the solution. Words can't describe how terrible it is. And believe me, I'm trying.

    The problem with the recent games is that the alternative sucks, too. The keyboard movement is also shitty--it's the same reason console companies started using analog sticks when they made the transition to 3D. It is unbearably clunky to only be able to move in four (or 8 with the num pad) directions in a full 3D environment.

    Until computers start coming standard with analog sticks attached to their mice (or something lol), 3D adventure games in the Telltale style will always be something of a chore to play. Better to wait for the console releases. ;)

    A lot of this problem with control comes from adventure games' strict adherence to fixed camera angles for each scene. Just once, I'd like to see an adventure game attempt a full-roaming 3D environment like Red Dead Redemption or something. Keep all the traditional adventure gameplay mechanics--cut to cinematic closeups for conversations a la Mass Effect, have a traditional inventory with item combining and puzzle solving. Just put it in a full-roaming 3D environment. No fixed camera. And just see how it works. I can't think of any games that have done this yet--are there any?

  • @Lambonius said: I can't think of any games that have done this yet--are there any?

    Simon 3 fits the bill, I suppose?

  • I feel sorry for you if you abandoned TMI, because you missed out on a great game. I don't think adventure games are 'meant' to be in 2D or 3D. The 3D graphics are just another evolutionary step in gaming, just like from text adventures to graphic adventures, or the arrow keys and text parser to point and click. There is nothing inherently wrong with the use of 3D itself, it's just all in the execution. Admittedly, TMI had some control issues, but other games like Sam & Max worked wonderfully. However, there are many modern 2D adventure games that are also good.

  • @Lambonius said: Telltale's engine sucks balls when it comes to controlling the character. Seriously, it's just about the worst thing ever designed. The click-drag-move control scheme is absolutely broken any way you look at it. An abomination of video gaming control schemes.

    Really? It took about 2 minutes to learn it and using it felt natural really fast. I really like the system, but this just shows that things which are easy to some are difficult to others.

    @Lambonius said: Simon 3 fits the bill, I suppose?

    Hah. Simon 3D is one of the ugliest games I have ever seen, which is pity because the puzzles and story are decent.

  • Actually, the fixed angles serve many purposes. The time constraint the TT games are made under is a major factor in most of them. If the camera angle is fix, then there's no need to render the fourth wall. Also, as they are made with PC in mind as well as consoles, a free camera would mean more controls to add as well, which would require more development time. Let's not forget that any good free camera system also requires its own A.I. to keep it from getting stuck behind walls and objects.

    As far as the control thing goes, plug in a console style controller. You'd be surprised at how much simpler this is than the click and drag (which is a style I never cared for).

    Also, to icedan, just because there's no precedent doesn't make something impossible. All the other genre that made the transition to 3d had someone just like you who at some point said that it would never work. Heck, I remember back in the N64 days when people were ranting that "Mario will never work in 3D." People even said the same thing about Fallout 3. While I agree that it would be nice to see some 2D based games, that doesn't mean that 3D has no place. Even the creator of King's Quest believed that it needed to move into 3D to remain viable.

    2D world
    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSzrAP0db34UK7PUkTOgGV

    3D world
    super-mario-galaxy-20070905112740834.jpg

    2D world
    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT5TBTnQ_7_MR1WvSF-sdB

    3D world
    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcREwpgYiL3CwTHn7naVIr2

    2D world
    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSQAb5NzU-B2j2P3wsP3KJ

    3D world
    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSCkz4JTSdrCNFZJmmCcQY

    Do you need more examples?

  • @icedan said: Kings Quest is not meant to be in 3D

    There was probably a time when people were saying "King's Quest is not meant to have voices", "King's Quest is not meant to be controlled with a mouse", "King's Quest is not meant to have graphics better than AGI", etc.

    @icedan said: Telltale's engine sucks balls when it comes to controlling the character. Seriously, it's just about the worst thing ever designed. The click-drag-move control scheme is absolutely broken any way you look at it. An abomination of video gaming control schemes.

    I wouldn't click-and-drag is THAT bad, but I do far prefer using the arrow keys in Telltale games. The arrow keys never give me any trouble.

    And no 3D game will EVER have controls nearly as frustrating as "Escape from Monkey Island", although most of that had to do with the camera placement.

  • @doggans said: There was probably a time when people were saying "King's Quest is not meant to have voices", "King's Quest is not meant to be controlled with a mouse", "King's Quest is not meant to have graphics better than AGI", etc.

    I wouldn't click-and-drag is THAT bad, but I do far prefer using the arrow keys in Telltale games. The arrow keys never give me any trouble.

    And no 3D game will EVER have controls nearly as frustrating as "Escape from Monkey Island", although most of that had to do with the camera placement.

    Lol...yeah, of course I'm exaggerating. ;)

    Actually, I find Telltale's games to be just as hard to control as Escape ever was. The fixed camera angles essentially mean that the keyboard controls work exactly the same way as in that game, but at least you can use the mouse to click on stuff, which was a mistake to take out of Escape (though it worked much better in Grim Fandango for some reason--or maybe it didn't, and I just think that because Grim was such a better game in every other way.) ;)

  • @doggans said: There was probably a time when people were saying "King's Quest is not meant to have voices", "King's Quest is not meant to be controlled with a mouse", "King's Quest is not meant to have graphics better than AGI", etc.

    To be fair, Icedan mentions wanting to have parser in his original post ;)

    @doggans said: Really? It took about 2 minutes to learn it and using it felt natural really fast. I really like the system, but this just shows that things which are easy to some are difficult to others.

    I also like click and drag, plus there's always WSAD. Neither solution can touch the elegance of the mouse, but they work all right.

    @doggans said: Hah. Simon 3D is one of the ugliest games I have ever seen, which is pity because the puzzles and story are decent.

    No doubt it's ugly, but it also seems to be exactly what Lambonius was interested to see - adventure game mechanics grafted onto a skeleton of 3d platformer. Except without all the platforming ;)

  • @Radogol said: No doubt it's ugly, but it also seems to be exactly what Lambonius was interested to see - adventure game mechanics grafted onto a skeleton of 3d platformer. Except without all the platforming ;)

    Lol...yeah, no platforming definitely. :)

    I haven't played Simon 3D, so that's why I didn't think of it. I'd love to see an adventure game with current graphical technology that takes the free roam approach though. It could be amazing.

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