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Traditional animation vs. 3D animation...

posted by Leplaya on - last edited - Viewed by 2.8K users

I am not that big of King's quest, but I have seen bits of pieces of the games. The only game of King's quest that I remember playing was the 7th one, and that one was the Princeless Bride. I'm not that big into the animation of that one(Since I dislike it when people mimic the Disney style) but my sister likes it and it reminds her of Don Bluth's style. I know the game is likely to be done in 3D but will there be certain parts of the game that will use 2D? Or even better, used for the cutscenes of the game? It would be sweet if that would happen.

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  • @joek86 said: Do you need more examples?

    no. You clearly proofed that 2D is better.

  • @Radogol said: To be fair, Icedan mentions wanting to have parser in his original post ;)

    Fair enough. :P My point is, the KQ series has NEVER been about nostalgia; it has always been about pushing forward with art and technology. If anything, Telltale's game will be a break from tradition by not being cutting-edge ENOUGH, what with Telltale's limited budget and all.

  • It's a badly thought out title - it's more of a shout to TTG to stop with the 3D all the time.

    The point about consoles is a good one, I am not aware if TTG make for consoles or not, if TTG do make for consoles then there is little choice but 3D and for me, and I think many others - an unfortunate one. I know I would never get the adventure/exploration feel out of it as I have with so many famous 2D adventure games.

    Anakin's screenshots point out that when an artist creates 2D backgrounds they pay special attention to just about every pixel that goes into it, even the most detailed 3D scene can not practically achieve that - or rather, no sane artist would attempt to do that, and because of this the scenes become less mysterious and less interesting, which can often lead to less challenging as well.

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    Majus Telltale Staff

    3D is not supposed to be as detailed as a handdrawn background of course, it serves other purposes. The best thing is that its a virtual movie-studio, you can move in three dimensions, you are a lot more flexible, and you can work with the tricks that are used in the film-industry. You can create a whole palette moments that are a lot more difficult to do in 2D.
    So, 3D is best when its in motion, so its a bit unfair proving a point with static screenshots.

    I am not saying that 2D cant trigger the same emotions that 3D can do. Of course you can create space with multiple 2D-layers, and there are dozent of tricks to that. But that takes a lot more work to do, since you are busy with faking a third dimension, while you only have two.
    Same thing that its a huge amount of work trying to create a beautiful handdrawn-background in 3D. Its not the same, and 2D would be the easier way indeed.

    3D has a different approach than 2D, they both have pros and cons. I am not saying that one is better or worse than the other.

    Everyone has a different opinion on that, but still its only fair to respect someones choice, since this is no right/wrong-argument.

  • I'd like to see those KQ5 backgrounds professsionally rendered in real-time 3D with all the glorious Myst-like details that the 2D artwork attempted to garner with incredible dynamic lighting and real time shadows. No way that wouldn't look far greater than the original artwork. And I love KQ5's artwork.

    3D can look far better than 2D ever can if people have the right hardware and the designers go all out. Skyrim looks absolutely phenomenal. Even Oblivion and Fallout 3 are fantastic. Better than anything 2D could ever throw at you because there are incredible fine details in the art AND in the animation. There's subtle movements and nuances to the gaming world in 3D that are just unmatched and unavailable in 2D. And then there's the fixed static camera angles in 2D. 3D blows this out of the water by being able to look at and examine everything in a gaming world from every angle. There's movement, animation, detail. A 3D gaming world is alive! 2D backgrounds, no matter how pretty they are, are static motionless, restricting, and boring.

    I will agree that many 2D games look better than a lot of 3D games, but that was something that was true a few years ago. Not so much anymore. Oblivion is a 2004 game and it looks glorious! You can't tell me games like Portal 2, Half-Life 2 Episode 2, Left 4 Dead 2, Skyrim, and a lot of newer games don't look as good or don't have a better atmosphere than any 2D game. But no adventure game has done this properly yet because there aren't really that many triple-AAA adventure game studios (actually, there are none). And the ones that do exist do everything in a cartoony detail-less way. Jurassic Park looks fantastic, however, so hopefully Telltale will put the extra effort into detail for King's Quest as well. Not to the point of realism, however, so much as that incredible fantasy story-book artwork style. But not a straight disproportionate cartoon either.

    @Majus said: 3D is not supposed to be as detailed as a handdrawn background of course, it serves other purposes.

    Wow. I don't agree with that at all.

    @Majus said: Lol...yeah, no platforming definitely. :)

    I haven't played Simon 3D, so that's why I didn't think of it. I'd love to see an adventure game with current graphical technology that takes the free roam approach though. It could be amazing.

    Anyone remember that SQ1 remake that one guy was making with the Doom 3 engine? I abandoned it for other projects, but it look fantastic. First person, but still. It was to have all the elements of adventure gaming; inventory, puzzles, etc. It would have been great.

    @Majus said: Fair enough. :P My point is, the KQ series has NEVER been about nostalgia; it has always been about pushing forward with art and technology. If anything, Telltale's game will be a break from tradition by not being cutting-edge ENOUGH, what with Telltale's limited budget and all.

    THIS. King's Quest was always about innovating new technology and, failing that, pushing the boundaries of technologies that already existed.

  • Dead Cyborg is an interesting example of a fully 3D adventure game.

  • I just love the idea behind a KQ5 art direction going into 1080p 2-dimensional animated backgrounds. Like the Monkey Island Special Editions but with the beauty of the KQ5-style artwork. Why can't Telltale make THAT game??!

  • @MusicallyInspired said: I'd like to see those KQ5 backgrounds professsionally rendered in real-time 3D with all the glorious Myst-like details that the 2D artwork attempted to garner with incredible dynamic lighting and real time shadows. No way that wouldn't look far greater than the original artwork. And I love KQ5's artwork.

    3D can look far better than 2D ever can if people have the right hardware and the designers go all out. Skyrim looks absolutely phenomenal. Even Oblivion and Fallout 3 are fantastic. Better than anything 2D could ever throw at you because there are incredible fine details in the art AND in the animation. There's subtle movements and nuances to the gaming world in 3D that are just unmatched and unavailable in 2D. And then there's the fixed static camera angles in 2D. 3D blows this out of the water by being able to look at and examine everything in a gaming world from every angle. There's movement, animation, detail. A 3D gaming world is alive! 2D backgrounds, no matter how pretty they are, are static motionless, restricting, and boring.

    I will agree that many 2D games look better than a lot of 3D games, but that was something that was true a few years ago. Not so much anymore. Oblivion is a 2004 game and it looks glorious! You can't tell me games like Portal 2, Half-Life 2 Episode 2, Left 4 Dead 2, Skyrim, and a lot of newer games don't look as good or don't have a better atmosphere than any 2D game. But no adventure game has done this properly yet because there aren't really that many triple-AAA adventure game studios (actually, there are none). And the ones that do exist do everything in a cartoony detail-less way. Jurassic Park looks fantastic, however, so hopefully Telltale will put the extra effort into detail for King's Quest as well. Not to the point of realism, however, so much as that incredible fantasy story-book artwork style. But not a straight disproportionate cartoon either.

    [QUOTE=doggans;467920]The KQ series has NEVER been about nostalgia; it has always been about pushing forward with art and technology. If anything, Telltale's game will be a break from tradition by not being cutting-edge ENOUGH, what with Telltale's limited budget and all.

    THIS. King's Quest was always about innovating new technology and, failing that, pushing the boundaries of technologies that already existed.[/QUOTE]

    I agree with all of this. And you know, I hadn't thought of the fact that King's Quest was well known for pushing the boundaries of current technology in video games. With that in mind, I have to concede that 3D should work for KQ, so long as it's done well.


    ...and I can't believe people are using Escape from Monkey Island as an example of why 3D video games are crap.

    EMI is eleven years old; it was created when 3D adventure games were only in their infancy; it used pre-rendered backgrounds whose camera angles did not dynamically change as the character moved; and the control scheme for the game was developed specifically (and however poorly) so that it would easily port to consoles of the time (ie. PS1), meaning that everything ingame- even navigating the Menu- required the use of WASD. Zero mouse control in EMI. At all.

    Why would you use EMI as an example of 3D not working? That game is terrible, yes, but it's terrible for many more reasons than just having 3D sprites.

  • I like both.... There are some real advantages from either...

    also this thread is really suffering from the "My opinion is fact" epidemic...

  • @Lambonius said:
    Telltale's engine sucks balls when it comes to controlling the character. Seriously, it's just about the worst thing ever designed. The click-drag-move control scheme is absolutely broken any way you look at it. An abomination of video gaming control schemes.

    I agree, which is why I play with WASD keys one hand on the keyboard, the other on the mouse.

    I think the art style with the lavish paintings is cool and all and I agree a bit about the 3D thing in this case at least. Monkey Island I think can get away with it a bit more just because it was cartoony.

    I don't think 3D can't ever be done, but rather I think Telltale should update the bejeesus out of their engine to pull it off as well. I think it should look a bit like Oblivion but slightly more whimsical/fantasy. I doubt that Telltale is gonna get all the people to make the graphics on par with Skyrim or anything, but I'm just saying I think it would look better like this of course. :) It shouldn't look as cartoony as Sam n Max or Monkey Island ideally...

    But heck, who am I kidding, we have come a long way since -

    kq2-small.png

    I still think Telltale will probably do a better job than Sierra did as far as the actual game experience, but that's just my opinion and feel free to call me a worthless sack for having it if you like. :)

    And how can we ever forget the classic:

    180px-KingsQuestXXXXVIII.png

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