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An Indiana Jones game based on the two attempted sequels for atlantis.

posted by Leplaya on - last edited - Viewed by 667 users

I was reading about Indiana Jones when I came across information on two attempted sequels for Fate of Atlantis. Which had both were cancelled. As far as what I am reading is correct, the second attempt was canned due to the development problems. While the first attempt had some marketing problem(Due to it being based on Hitler being recreated).

Now as far as gamers go, I still run into people who are into seeing these two proposed concepts come alive as a video game. But what if there was something like these two concepts? Something that is similar but not too similar to the concepts that were attempted. Would you buy it?

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  • If it were Indiana Jones, I'd definitely be interested.

  • @Leplaya said: ... the first attempt had some marketing problem(Due to it being based on Hitler being recreated).

    You're partially correct but to be more precise, it was canned because they wouldn't be able to sell it in Capital of Censorship; Germany (due to the game's heavy use of Nazi's and Hitler). The problem being that Germany was (and still is) the biggest market for adventure games.

    I like Germany and I've liked every German I've ever met (in fact, I've more than liked some - I once had a wonderful cheeky snog with a rather lovely German lass in Ibiza) but due to it being their fault that we lost out on a FoA sequel, on this occasion I'm gonna have to say... screw you Germany! :p

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    Vainamoinen Moderator

    @Davies said: Capital of Censorship; Germany

    Well, you might want to speak to Jon NA about the "Capital of Censorship"... because I'm rather certain I don't live in it.

    A story about a resurrected Hitler wouldn't be censored in Germany. We've got lots of spoofs as well as serious and thoughtful movies about the time, no problem there and no censorship involved. All the swastikas will have to be mirrored, though, that is off-limits. :D The main problem would be that this plain old "Hitler resurrected" story would be so plain bad that no one would buy the game anyway, so maybe that was an actual reason for the cancellation.

    I'm also pretty sure LucasArts would never base a development decision on the German market back then. I think it was only in recent years that we've become that important a market for the classic adventure game that some European developers desperately count on us buying adventures like madmen. So while the statement "Germany's censorship laws have prevented FoA2" is definitely false, the statement "Germany's adventure fans have made the development of lots of adventures possible" might have a shred of truth.

  • @Vainamoinen said: Well, you might want to speak to Jon NA about the "Capital of Censorship"... because I'm rather certain I don't live in it.

    A story about a resurrected Hitler wouldn't be censored in Germany. We've got lots of spoofs as well as serious and thoughtful movies about the time, no problem there and no censorship involved. All the swastikas will have to be mirrored, though, that is off-limits. :D The main problem would be that this plain old "Hitler resurrected" story would be so plain bad that no one would buy the game anyway, so maybe that was an actual reason for the cancellation.

    I'm also pretty sure LucasArts would never base a development decision on the German market back then. I think it was only in recent years that we've become that important a market for the classic adventure game that some European developers desperately count on us buying adventures like madmen. So while the statement "Germany's censorship laws have prevented FoA2" is definitely false, the statement "Germany's adventure fans have made the development of lots of adventures possible" might have a shred of truth.

    I apologise, I meant no offense. I'd always read this as being the reason for the cancellation (be it on the Internet or via more reputable publications).

    For the reference of others: German Law.

    Although, I do stand by saying that Germany is a lot stricter on censorship than the UK or certainly America.

    Here's some games that have been banned in Germany (at least to my understanding)...

    Gears of War
    Manhunt 1 & 2
    Soldier of Fortune: Payback
    Mortyr
    Condemned 1 & 2
    Dead Rising

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    Vainamoinen Moderator

    Definitely no offense taken! :)

    I did not check for each game on your list, but I suppose you are correct to assume that these games can not be promoted or sold by German retailers (they can be imported rather easily though ;) ).

    Still, the index of these games is a very different thing than what would have happened to another LucasArts Indy game. Those games you mention were taken off the market because of excessive graphic violence, and most likely, because “their sole purpose is to kill human beings”, a phrase used rather often in the language of the BpjM. This authority, as I understand it, is there to protect our youth, but may not even act until another independent organization concerned with the youth has formally requested that the BpjM investigate a certain game/movie. I definitly don’t like the way it is done, and we’re in a constant battle of the political parties to re-investigate these laws for better or worse, but the "capital of censorship" is elsewhere nonetheless. If I recall correctly, it was only weeks ago that you’ve written a harsh letter of complaint to your own authorities about the censorship of a certain violent movie. Same thing here.

    Fate of Atlantis 2 would have been treated completely different. Seriously, adventure games don’t get censored in Germany!! However, it is very true that some symbols would be off-limits, precisely those you have linked to. In the past, that has only meant that these symbols had to be removed/replaced for the German edition, and the game could be sold in Germany without problems. It's the public display of these symbols that is the key issue, which is expressly forbidden in Germany for good reason. I don't particularly understand the spirit of these laws when it comes to fictional content where National Socialism and its symbols are unmistakably placed in a negative context, but there are worse issues to worry about.

    To put the whole thing in a nutshell: If I wanted to make a game in Germany, I would not feel my personal storytelling to be restricted in any way, especially when the topic/setting is National Socialism. I would not include that excessive violence, though.

    I’m rambling, but I can’t help it. :D

    On a general censorship note – sorry, but "Capital of Censorship" sounds very general to me – the post-WW2 laws in Germany have taken great pains to ensure a seriously light level of censorship, as compared to so many other countries. These walls are crumbling, no doubt, but they do so in every country with a certain terrorist threat or incidental killing sprees.

    The freedom of the press is very intact, though, and seems to slightly exceed the freedom in the US or UK (according to these ratings). In fact, the authorities are mortally afraid to censor the press in any way so tabloids like the "Bild" have no problems to continually and very willfully transgress the press codex. There is a pseudo-authority called the "Presserat" (press council) which does nothing but raise its index finger once in a while with no judicial power at all. I’m not sure wether I should deplore this. After all, the "Bild" loves to ruin lives, incite people, blackmail celebrities and politicians into cooperation and just plain exercise power, and there’s not much in German law that could stop these guys. So much for censorship.

  • @Vainamoinen said: If I recall correctly, it was only weeks ago that you’ve written a harsh letter of complaint to your own authorities about the censorship of a certain violent movie.

    Harsh; yes. Fair; absolutely.

    It's worth pointing out that it's very unusual for the BBFC to ban a film or game. The last time I recall that occurring was with Manhunt 2 and even then the ban was swiftly lifted almost as soon as it was enforced.

    A bit of research reveals that in the last 20 years, only three films have been banned in the UK and they are...

    * Mikey
    * Grotesque
    * The Human Centipede 2 (which is the film I wrote to the BBFC about)

    As for games, it appears that only three games have ever been banned / censored in the UK...

    * Carmageddon - which was initially released with zombies replacing the human pedestrians but was released uncut not long after.
    * The aforementioned Manhunt 2 - which as I previously stated was released uncut within weeks of being banned.
    * The Punisher - was never actually banned but was released in a censored state, as it remains to this day.

    However, I do wish to make it clear that I'm in no way blowing the trumpet for the UK. I hate my country and its Government. There are only two things I admire about the UK and that's...

    1/ The UK sense of humour and the resulting comedy shows which we've produced as a result. Quite frankly, nobody does comedy as consistently brilliantly as we do.

    2/ Our National Health Service, which is there for everybody; no matter how poor.

    However, our "wonderful" Government is now trying to take the NHS down the same route as America. So, that would leave me with precisely one thing that I like about my Country.

    I'm certainly no flag waving freak; screw the UK.

    I'd probably be much happier living in Germany.

    @Vainamoinen said: On a general censorship note – sorry, but "Capital of Censorship" sounds very general to me.

    When I made that "Capital of Censorship" comment, it was made very much with my toungue placed firmly against my cheek. I'm very aware that Germany is a relatively liberal Country. I guess the comment was a failure of that unique UK humour on my part (hey, I never said that all of us were funny). ;)

  • Erm...putting this back on track a little...

    I could easily do the music on this one. I love indy's theme :D

  • A bit more info about the cancelled games in question.

    Also sort-of on topic is the fan-games. There's a good few in development, none of which I can be bothered to link to. Or can I?

    EDIT: Yes I can, since I found a great big list of them all. Here it is.

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    Vainamoinen Moderator

    Thanks for the link, but:

    But the death-knell for Iron Phoenix came after European trade show ECTS, where LucasArts showed the game and learned that Germany (the biggest market for adventure games) would never allow a game that explicitly showed Nazis. Other Indy games got away with this by covering up the references, but Nazis and Hitler were a main part of Iron Phoenix's plot.

    Sorry, IndyJones.net, you have no idea what you are talking about. No game that "explicitly showed Nazis" in Germany? What about Fate of Atlantis itself, Mr. Doofus IndyJones.net writer? I have a German version of that game with Dr. Hans Uberman quite intact, thank you. What about our very own adventure game "Lost Horizon" (from 2010), that was filled to the brim with Nazis?

    lost-horizon-screenshot-4-614x250.jpg

    ...yes, that is as far as you go with those symbols in Germany. Also, the game sucked, but that's not the point.:D

    Also, the marketing and developing people at LucasArts "learned" of this on ETCS? If anything was in their way, wouldn't they know about this decisively earlier, maybe during the release of Indy 3 or FoA?? That text is a joke. Now I'm offended. :)

  • This whole discussion is silly -- no other country can even come close to Australia as the Capital of Censorship.

    To answer the question of the original post, I think a new Indy game could potentially be either great, or a huge disappointment, without too much ground in between. It depends a lot upon who Lucasarts would get to make the game -- if they did what is suggested here and made a de-facto sequel to FoA, then I think it would be lots of fun. If they went the far more likely route of making a generic action game, then it would probably be terrible.

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