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Are you kidding me with these graphics?

posted by caeska on - last edited - Viewed by 5.3K users

Because this is absolutely ridicilous.
When is TTG going to learn and actually implement some proper graphics and animations into their games?
While this style of graphics is too cartoony and doesn't fit the L&O genre at all but I wouldn't mind that so much if Telltale would just take the graphics aspect somewhat seriously.

Look at Jurassic Park: Good characters, good story. But the graphics look like they were, and they probably were, done by amateurs who never attended a graphic design class in their lives.
My 5-year old niece could have done a better job in that department. The character animations as a whole, body language, movement, lip synch and
facial expressions of emotions is completely unrealistic and it is actually done so poorly that it makes it impossible to get immersed into the game world. BTTF was the same, no effort whatsoever put into animations and thus, no entertainment value.

And so far L&O seems poised to do exactly the same mistakes that BTTF and JP did because there is no indication that L&O will be any better. It's too rough around the edges and with the graphics style they've chosen to use they've effectively destroyed the game before it's even released. I'm still hoping to be proven wrong, but somehow I have my doubts.

If they are not going to bother to work with the graphics and animations, then I'm not going to bother with paying money for the game. It really is that simple. The graphics aspect is so important in a computer game that in many cases, it determines whether it becomes a success
or failure. And it is one of the most contributing factors to replay value and how drawn you as a player get into the game.

175 Comments - Linear Discussion: Classic Style
  • @yoman45135 said: I hope your joking it is fine when they are not based on anything and they make animated things but if they animated a serious deppressing film like the Untouchables I have no doubt they would get bad marks just for the cartoony art style

    I'm sure it would get bad marks from you but thankfully you are not the only opinion that matters. Here is a link to Roger Ebert's review of Grave of the Fireflies. Please read it, it's not terribly long. Though if you can't be bothered then at least read this quote (it is really worth reading the whole thing, though):

    @yoman45135 said: The book is well-known in Japan, and might easily have inspired a live-action film. It isn't the typical material of animation. But for "Grave of the Fireflies," I think animation was the right choice. Live action would have been burdened by the weight of special effects, violence and action. Animation allows [the directer] to concentrate on the essence of the story, and the lack of visual realism in his animated characters allows our imagination more play; freed from the literal fact of real actors, we can more easily merge the characters with our own associations.

    Grave of the Fireflies is a more serious and depressing film than The Untouchables and it's completely animated. You may not believe it's possible but that's because, as I keep saying, you are completely closed minded on what animation is capable of.

    @yoman45135 said: Also quote somebody who said they liked the art style for back to the future and not one of the telltale fans who just make a second account and only ever post one comment and the comment is like this: ''The game was the greatest thing ever it looked exactly like the films and even though you made a few mistakes the game is great and has no problems''

    And no im not making that up I have seen many people do that and you can tell they are telltale fans, yes there are people who liked the game, I liked the story but the graphics were a problem back to the future is real life action and the game should be close.

    Here is a poll where people are outright asked if they think the game should be realistic or cartoony and the majority of people said they prefer it to be cartoony. I'm not sure what further proof you need to be convinced that of all the things that was wrong with BttF: TG the graphics isn't widely considered to be one of them.

    I also found this little gem. The OP says that he thinks that BttF would work perfectly as an animated film and nobody else in the thread say it wouldn't work stylisticly.

    And finally, here's another poll a fan started saying that they should make the game into a CGI film, to which the majority votes yes.

    @yoman45135 said: Lets try the other way what is your favourite animated thing ever which you never stop talking about and you have posters of, imagine if someone made a game or film of it with real life action but it didnt look right because it didnt work in real life action as it does in animation, thats how many people felt about the bttf game and I hope telltale learn to add some better graphics for the second season of the bttf game because you get more benefits from good graphics than bad graphics.

    I have to point you back to the above graphs. The many people you speak of that feel that BttF: TG had the wrong art style are the minority. There aren't even any art style bashing threads like this one over at the BttF forums. I really don't think that there are as many people supporting you on this as you seem to think there are. At best it's a vocal minority.

  • @Woodsyblue said:

    Here is a poll where people are outright asked if they think the game should be realistic or cartoony and the majority of people said they prefer it to be cartoony. I'm not sure what further proof you need to be convinced that of all the things that was wrong with BttF: TG the graphics isn't widely considered to be one of them.

    I also found this little gem. The OP says that he thinks that BttF would work perfectly as an animated film and nobody else in the thread say it wouldn't work stylisticly.


    The first thing you said I notice most of the people who voted cartoony said they wanted it inbetween which I dont have anything against and the other people were telltale fans who are of course going to support cartoony graphics

    Also the thing about a animated film the OP said he watched tintin and thinks it would work well for back to the future, tintin is a realistic cartoon but telltales art style is incredibly unrealistic.

    I have said many times before in other thread's I dont want uncharted or la noire graphics, just something which looks right and I can tell you that the art style for bttf the game does not suit it at all

    You have not made a refrence to back to the future so im not sure if you have seen back to the future films but go and watch them, they are a very good set of films and if you took the jokes and the odd silly scene's out I would say it is a very serious film and the fans on bttf.com have said they want a more realistic art style.

    (Also this is becoming more about Back to the future and not so much about Law & Order)

  • User Avatar Image
    Jennifer Moderator

    Animated films can definitely handle very serious material if done well. Check out this animated adaptation The Tell-Tale Heart. It is the most faithful adaptation of an Edgar Allen Poe poem that I have ever seen, animated or live-action.

  • @Jennifer said: Animated films can definitely handle very serious material if done well. Check out this animated adaptation The Tell-Tale Heart. It is the most faithful adaptation of an Edgar Allen Poe poem that I have ever seen, animated or live-action.

    Yes if it is done well but thats rare and telltale well they always add jokes to there games combine crappy graphics and jokes and it straight away looks like they are making fun.

  • @yoman45135 said: The first thing you said I notice most of the people who voted cartoony said they wanted it inbetween which I dont have anything against and the other people were telltale fans who are of course going to support cartoony graphics

    A lot of people on the first couple of pages wrote that they'd like to see something in-between but the point is that when asked flat out, black and white, one way or the other would people prefer the game to be realistic or cartoony the majority of people said cartoony. If people were as disgusted as the art style as you say they are this wouldn't be the case, it would be the other way around.

    You are completely discounting the opinions of people who are fans of Telltale but I could just as easily say we should discount the opinions of people like you because you are clearly prejudiced against cartoon styles despite being ignorant of the history of animation and what can be achieved though the medium. Not to mention we could do the same with all the graphics whores who aren't happy with any game not running on the latest Unreal Engine. With any debate there will always be people deeply prejudiced one way or the other and unable to see reason, but the usually cancel each other out (and make life miserable for the rest of us.)

    @yoman45135 said: Also the thing about a animated film the OP said he watched tintin and thinks it would work well for back to the future, tintin is a realistic cartoon but telltales art style is incredibly unrealistic.

    The idea of a realistic cartoon seems to go against everything you've said in your past posts. So you admit that cartoons can be realistic?

    @yoman45135 said: You have not made a refrence to back to the future so im not sure if you have seen back to the future films but go and watch them, they are a very good set of films and if you took the jokes and the odd silly scene's out I would say it is a very serious film and the fans on bttf.com have said they want a more realistic art style.

    I have seen the bttf films many times, I even own them all on DVD and Blu-ray. And I'm sorry but your definition of serious here is very skewed. BttF does not take itself seriously at all, and that's a huge part of what makes them good. I'm not saying serious = bad because there are many excellent serious films out there but bttf is very clearly not one of them.

    Marty jamming Johnny B Goode in front of a crowd of 1950's teenagers is not serious, Marty going back to the American wild west in a pink cowboy outfit is not serious, Michael J. Fox playing his own daughter is not serious, the Flux Capacitor is not serious, Doc's crazy inventions are not serious, the delorien time travel machine in not serious. These are all jokes and are all ones off the top of my head.

    If you take out all the silly scenes you really aren't left with much of anything. BttF does not attempt to be realistic, not even a little. It's a comedy and its subject for parody is different eras in time. It's light-hearted silly fun. Even the very concept of the whole film series, travelling through time in a delorian, is a joke. If you think the BttF films are serious then you are deluded. Deeply, deeply deluded.

    @yoman45135 said: the fans on bttf.com have said they want a more realistic art style.

    I took a loot at the bttf.com forums and saw a lot of what I see here: differing opinions. Some were vocally against the art style and some said it suited. I don't think you can say with any authority how the people at bttf.com feel one way or another about the topic. However, in your world where everyone who is against the graphics is right and everyone who is for it is a fanboy and their opinion is discounted I can see why you would think that everyone over there is on your side.

  • @Woodsyblue said:

    I took a loot at the bttf.com forums and saw a lot of what I see here: differing opinions. Some were vocally against the art style and some said it suited. I don't think you can say with any authority how the people at bttf.com feel one way or another about the topic. However, in your world where everyone who is against the graphics is right and everyone who is for it is a fanboy and their opinion is discounted I can see why you would think that everyone over there is on your side.

    Im not saying that people who prefer cartoony graphics are completley wrong full stop in everything but with back to the future they are wrong, true fans take back to the future very seriously and most fans dont like the art style.

    to try and make this more about law & order read this:

    http://www.appolicious.com/games/articles/10644-law-order-legacies-is-more-like-interactive-tv-than-adventure-gaming

    The guy said he didnt like the art style, are you going to say his opinion is wrong and he is not a fan because he also thinks the art style is just wrong.

    I will admit there are some cartoony films which can be more serious than a real life film but I will not agree that a cartoony art style is the best art style for a bttf or law & order game because if you asked the true fans most of them would say they want a more realistic art style.

  • Wait... people actually give a **** about graphics!? Guess, I'm a freak. Liking all that game play, I mean, games have nothing to do with game play right? Apparently.

    Anyway, personally, I like the cell shading. I think it looks nice. I never found Law & Order to be that much of a drama anyhow. It's a good show though.

  • @yoman45135 said: Im not saying that people who prefer cartoony graphics are completley wrong full stop in everything but with back to the future they are wrong, true fans take back to the future very seriously and most fans dont like the art style.

    to try and make this more about law & order read this:

    http://www.appolicious.com/games/articles/10644-law-order-legacies-is-more-like-interactive-tv-than-adventure-gaming

    The guy said he didnt like the art style, are you going to say his opinion is wrong and he is not a fan because he also thinks the art style is just wrong.

    I will admit there are some cartoony films which can be more serious than a real life film but I will not agree that a cartoony art style is the best art style for a bttf or law & order game because if you asked the true fans most of them would say they want a more realistic art style.

    Your definition of a true fan here seems to be people who line up with your own opinion. I could just as easily say that the true BttF fans are the people who embrace cartoony graphics that are more in line with the silliness of the film series. I have no less right to label someone a true fan as you do. It's not really fair to call people on one side of the debate true fans and the other side not. It's a label people apply to delude themselves into thinking they are right and others are wrong. Saying you are a true fan doesn't make your flawed argument any stronger.

    The reviewer you posted talks about graphics but as an aside. After talking about the graphics she immediately says "The real issue is gameplay," and then goes into detail about that. She understands that the graphics are only part of it, a part that pails in comparison to aspects such as gameplay, which sound like the real problem with Law & Order (and BttF while we're at it). It sounds like she'd have said the game was bad even if it did have the right art style.

    I think it's important for you to know that art style isn't the only thing that makes a good game, it's not even the most important aspect, just one of many.

  • @Woodsyblue said: Your definition of a true fan here seems to be people who line up with your own opinion. I could just as easily say that the true BttF fans are the people who embrace cartoony graphics that are more in line with the silliness of the film series. I have no less right to label someone a true fan as you do. It's not really fair to call people on one side of the debate true fans and the other side not. It's a label people apply to delude themselves into thinking they are right and others are wrong. Saying you are a true fan doesn't make your flawed argument any stronger.

    The reviewer you posted talks about graphics but as an aside. After talking about the graphics she immediately says "The real issue is gameplay," and then goes into detail about that. She understands that the graphics are only part of it, a part that pails in comparison to aspects such as gameplay, which sound like the real problem with Law & Order (and BttF while we're at it). It sounds like she'd have said the game was bad even if it did have the right art style.

    I think it's important for you to know that art style isn't the only thing that makes a good game, it's not even the most important aspect, just one of many.

    I didnt say that fans who dont care about the cartoony graphics are wrong at all look at what I posted.

    Also the reviewer also didnt like the art style and I didnt say graphics are the most important aspect, it just needs to look nicer I think graphics just a tad better than jurrasic park are perfect for bttf or law and order for all of telltales games really.(Not sam and max or Tales of Money Island or wallace and gromit)

    Back to the future has odd silly scenes yes but overall people take it very seriously, you made it sound like a spoof the way you described it and failed to see the point of some of those scenes like the time machiene being a delorean or why he played the song Johnny B good in front of everyone,
    It fits into being a comedy not a spoof, and usually comedys dont get so many refrences like:

    > Nike Shoe's
    > Argentina shop advert
    >Tv advert
    >Many quotes in films and tv programs (I have seen about 30)
    >Huge refrence in the spike awards beginning
    >One of the scenes played at the Oscars

    And many more.

    The people have put effort into making delorean time machienes and telltale dont even put effort into graphics.

    also because you keep saying I hate cartoony graphics, Thats a lie some of my favourite games are cartoony or Zork which has no graphics at all and I enjoy that game.

    I just hate it when you take a film which is taken incredibly seriously by it's fans and give it crap graphics.

    Please open your mind and try and see like me and a lot of fans.
    I respect your opinion but I am sure I am a bigger bttf fan than you and know more about that art style fits bttf than you.

  • @yoman45135 said: I didnt say that fans who dont care about the cartoony graphics are wrong at all look at what I posted.

    Maybe you should look at what you posted, you said they were wrong about BttF. In fact your exact words were "Im not saying that people who prefer cartoony graphics are completley wrong full stop in everything but with back to the future they are wrong, true fans take back to the future very seriously and most fans dont like the art style."

    I'll also mention that you say they are wrong without saying why they are wrong. All you talk about is seriousness and who the true fans are, like you have the right to decide such things.

    @yoman45135 said: Also the reviewer also didnt like the art style and I didnt say graphics are the most important aspect, it just needs to look nicer I think graphics just a tad better than jurrasic park are perfect for bttf or law and order for all of telltales games really.(Not sam and max or Tales of Money Island or wallace and gromit)

    Jurassic Park's graphics got blasted way worse than BttF, they look nice on the surface but the people and dinosaurs have stiff, unrealistic animations. On the whole people seemed more happy with the BttF graphics than JP's so I'm not quite sure why you are clambering for "just a tad better than jurrasic park" graphics.

    @yoman45135 said: Back to the future has odd silly scenes yes but overall people take it very seriously,

    Back to the Future is all odd silly scenes. Almost every scene in the film is laden with gags and jokes. Look at the opening sequence, which sets the scene for the entire movie. You're in a house and the camera is panning past old newspaper articles, an absurd amount of clocks, and some of Doc's crazy inventions. Marty enters and flicks on a bunch of switches and turns up some dials to full one by one. He plugs his electric guitar into into a comically massive set of speakers. Then he plays a note on the guitar and the speaker explodes, the force of the explosion sends Marty flying into a La-Z-Boy on the other side of the room and a set of shelves collapses on him. He pulls himself out of the mess, unhurt and unscratched. 'Whoa, rock'n'roll,' he says. This is not something that happens in a serious film, it's more like a live action cartoon, right down to the slapstick. Less than five minutes into the film I've found an example of it not being serious. If you still don't believe me I can find a lot more. I think this live action cartoon style the film has is a big reason why a lot of people (though clearly not you) have accepted the cartoony art style of the game. The films are not totally unlike a cartoon, and thus cartoon visuals in the game are not out of place.

    @yoman45135 said: you made it sound like a spoof the way you described it and failed to see the point of some of those scenes like the time machiene being a delorean or why he played the song Johnny B good in front of everyone,

    You keep saying people take it seriously but just because you do but this doesn't mean the films take themselves seriously.

    And don't say I've missed the point of the scenes. First off it's not best to challenge my film knowledge, I'm an A+ average cinema studies student and have spent a considerable amount of time dissecting films and looking at what makes them work. Second off, you are right about one thing, it's not a spoof it's a comedy, but it still doesn't take itself seriously, few comedies do.

    You take it seriously, fine, but that doesn't mean the media associated with the franchise has to adhere to your vision of what the films are, especially when your vision is as misguided as thinking the films are serious. I think it's more important that they adhere to the spirit of the films, which is more cartoony in nature then I'm sure you're ever going to admit.

    @yoman45135 said: It fits into being a comedy not a spoof, and usually comedys dont get so many refrences like:

    > Nike Shoe's
    > Argentina shop advert
    >Tv advert
    >Many quotes in films and tv programs (I have seen about 30)
    >Huge refrence in the spike awards beginning
    >One of the scenes played at the Oscars

    And many more.

    I don't understand the point of this list. So are you saying the films are high profile? Do you think the films being high profile somehow make them more serious than other comedies? I'm a bit lost by this to be perfictly honost.

    @yoman45135 said: The people have put effort into making delorean time machienes and telltale dont even put effort into graphics.

    Why do you think cartoony graphics equate a lack of effort? And we're talking about small, downloadable games here. Telltale needs to keep the file sizes low so people with bad internet connections can still have access to their games. There was never any hope that Telltale would have AAA realistic graphics, it's more a matter of art style.

    @yoman45135 said: also because you keep saying I hate cartoony graphics, Thats a lie some of my favourite games are cartoony or Zork which has no graphics at all and I enjoy that game.

    Good to hear, I just hope you give more respect to cartoony games then you do to animated movies.

    Also, check your wording. I can't lie to you about what you like, only you can lie about what you like. I can accuse and you can admit or deny; that's about the extent of it.

    @yoman45135 said: I just hate it when you take a film which is taken incredibly seriously by it's fans and give it crap graphics.

    And I think this pet peeve of yours has blinded you to a couple of realities:

    1) The majority of people don't agree with you on the art style.
    2) The films aren't supposed to be serious, they're fun, over-the-top popcorn entertainment with some decent human drama thrown in to ground the experience.

    @yoman45135 said: Please open your mind and try and see like me and a lot of fans.
    I respect your opinion but I am sure I am a bigger bttf fan than you and know more about that art style fits bttf than you.

    I'm not the one with the closed mind here. Alas, you are still under the impression that your opinion on BttF's art style is the only one that matters. Why? Because you take it more seriously? You take Back to the Future so seriously you fail see how little it takes itself seriously. Yes, you're a fan but you don't seem to understand the subject of your fandom. Taking something seriously doesn't necessarily mean you understand it.

    You really have yet to come up with a good reason why the BttF game should have had a realistic art direction. All you do is talk about seriousness and apparent unhappy fans who don't seem to be a numerous as you think they are. You keep saying the films are serious and yet you have provided no reasons why you think they are serious.

    For both our sakes please explain, hopefully using examples, why you think BttF, which is filled with jokes and gags and unrealistic cartoony elements, is such a serious film series, because I don't understand where you are coming from with this.

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