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How was Marty in FCB timeline's 1931?

posted by Rogers on - last edited - Viewed by 2.6K users

This seems like a paradox to me. When Edna prevented Doc from seeing Frankenstein, it created a timeline where Doc never invents the time machine. This means that all of the time traveling adventures should have been erased, including all of Marty's interactions with 1931. But we see in Doc's office that there is a picture of old Doc and Marty in 1931 still.

How is this possible? The problem is that this whole timeline without the time machine can only exist as a result of the time machine. Technically, the universe should have imploded at this point. :confused:

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  • It's a complete plot hole in the game. I mean I do believe that even if something like this does happen then their actions still occur. Let's be honest, all this paradox stuff makes the series too god damn complicated but it's also pretty much impossible to avoid a paradox when in time travel. The problem is that Doc disappears but Marty doesn't. It makes no sense at all.

  • @Tornreaper said: It's a complete plot hole in the game. I mean I do believe that even if something like this does happen then their actions still occur. Let's be honest, all this paradox stuff makes the series too god damn complicated but it's also pretty much impossible to avoid a paradox when in time travel. The problem is that Doc disappears but Marty doesn't. It makes no sense at all.

    Actually the disappearance makes sense; Doc gets a rejuvenation in 2015 and has spent decades away from his natural timeline (at least ten years in the 1800s plus more at the start of the year). In the FCB timeline this doesnt happen so it's implied that he doesn't live that long.


    Unfortunately the rest is a plot hole; it's specifically stated that the 1885 trip does not happen in the FCB timeline and presumably the 1955 ones do not either yet clearly stated the previous 1931 travels did still happen (the picture and the fact that when they go back in episodes 4 and 5, everyone still remembers 'Carl Sagan' and Harry/Michael/Davy

  • nothing after episode 2 makes much sense really...

    -As you said, Doc shouldn't have faded out before Marty in FCB 1986

    -Even if I accept that, Doc shouldn't have met Marty in 1931 in this timeline.

    -Even if I accept THAT, Marty's fade out was ridiculously slow, lasting all the way to the end of Episode 4

    -When FCB went to 1931 to fix his timeline, he should have retained his FCB memories since he was a party to the time travel. His new 1986 should be strange and foreign to him.

    -When FCB becomes Doc again, he shouldn't have been sent to 1986. Nor should a second Delorean have existed. This is akin to Marty changing his parents at the end of the first movie. He created a new timeline for himself, where he grew up with different furniture and a different family. However, Marty does not just automatically get sent back to 1985 at this point, he has to do it manually.

  • @Rogers said: nothing after episode 2 makes much sense really...

    -As you said, Doc shouldn't have faded out before Marty in FCB 1986

    -Even if I accept that, Doc shouldn't have met Marty in 1931 in this timeline.

    -Even if I accept THAT, Marty's fade out was ridiculously slow, lasting all the way to the end of Episode 4

    -When FCB went to 1931 to fix his timeline, he should have retained his FCB memories since he was a party to the time travel. His new 1986 should be strange and foreign to him.

    -When FCB becomes Doc again, he shouldn't have been sent to 1986. Nor should a second Delorean have existed. This is akin to Marty changing his parents at the end of the first movie. He created a new timeline for himself, where he grew up with different furniture and a different family. However, Marty does not just automatically get sent back to 1985 at this point, he has to do it manually.

    I agree that Doc fading out at the end of Episode 2, but Marty not fading out, doesn't really make sense. I never bought the argument that the original Doc would fade because his alternate self did not get a rejuvenation treatment and likely wouldn't live to be HIS age (that really doesn't make much sense!). The best argument I can come up with is that since the FCB timeline was caused by a catastrophic change in DOC's past, he was erased...whereas Original Marty managed to stay intact inspite of the timeline change.

    I believe Marty SHOULD have been in danger of fading out while in FCB 1986...however, once back in 1931, he wouldn't have a problem, since the 'future isn't written' and there was still a probability that Edna and Emmett wouldn't hook up and Marty's timeline would be restored.

    As far as FCB Doc becoming 'Original Doc' (or rather, a 'New Doc') goes, look at it this way. FCB Doc's timeline was drastically altered when the probability of young Emmett hooking up with Edna became 0 (after the Expo). Leaving aside all other changes, at the very LEAST, there was NO reason in the new timeline for him to travel back to 1931, and so he was erased from existence. In the new timeline, Doc would still be in 1986 (until he reads Marty's newspaper clipping). So its not a question of FCB Doc becoming 'our' Doc...rather, FCB Doc's timeline is erased (along with him) and is replaced by a timeline where 'our' Doc never made a trip back to 1931.

  • @sn939 said: I agree that Doc fading out at the end of Episode 2, but Marty not fading out, doesn't really make sense. I never bought the argument that the original Doc would fade because his alternate self did not get a rejuvenation treatment and likely wouldn't live to be HIS age (that really doesn't make much sense!). The best argument I can come up with is that since the FCB timeline was caused by a catastrophic change in DOC's past, he was erased...whereas Original Marty managed to stay intact inspite of the timeline change.

    I believe Marty SHOULD have been in danger of fading out while in FCB 1986...however, once back in 1931, he wouldn't have a problem, since the 'future isn't written' and there was still a probability that Edna and Emmett wouldn't hook up and Marty's timeline would be restored.

    As far as FCB Doc becoming 'Original Doc' (or rather, a 'New Doc') goes, look at it this way. FCB Doc's timeline was drastically altered when the probability of young Emmett hooking up with Edna became 0 (after the Expo). Leaving aside all other changes, at the very LEAST, there was NO reason in the new timeline for him to travel back to 1931, and so he was erased from existence. In the new timeline, Doc would still be in 1986 (until he reads Marty's newspaper clipping). So its not a question of FCB Doc becoming 'our' Doc...rather, FCB Doc's timeline is erased (along with him) and is replaced by a timeline where 'our' Doc never made a trip back to 1931.

    marty never made the trip either since doc never invented time travel. the reason IS doc not living long enough, so he disappears when he time travelled back to 1986, he's 30 years older or more, i mean he spent 10 years in 1885 and lived in 1885 till he made the train then years later he sent jules and verne to college, not to mention the time he spent in 2015 till he learnt about marty's kids and went back to 1985, plus the rejuvination treatment made him healthy extending his life, so it makes sense that if he never invented time travel he would die younger than if he did time travel, hence disappearing makes perfect sense

  • What bothers me about the whole thing is the inconsistency. On one hand, the events of 1885 were retroactively erased - even though there was no trip make to that date or before. On the other hand, though, Marty (and Doc) was still in 1931 both times prior to the event - even though Citizen Brown Marty also couldn't have gone there.

    First off, I never really bought the idea that changes in the time could retroactively change events of the past. I mean, I can understand the events of 1955 not happening in the Citizen Brown timeline - but that's because 1955 comes after 1931, while 1885 comes before 1931. Second of all, even if we are to buy the idea that time travel can work that way - it doesn't make sense that only the events of 1885 would be erased, while the events of 1931 aren't.

  • @bttf4444 said: What bothers me about the whole thing is the inconsistency. On one hand, the events of 1885 were retroactively erased - even though there was no trip make to that date or before. On the other hand, though, Marty (and Doc) was still in 1931 both times prior to the event - even though Citizen Brown Marty also couldn't have gone there.

    First off, I never really bought the idea that changes in the time could retroactively change events of the past. I mean, I can understand the events of 1955 not happening in the Citizen Brown timeline - but that's because 1955 comes after 1931, while 1885 comes before 1931. Second of all, even if we are to buy the idea that time travel can work that way - it doesn't make sense that only the events of 1885 would be erased, while the events of 1931 aren't.

    There hasn't been a definitive explanation other than it's critical for the events of 1931 to have happened to set the FCB timeline in motion whereas the events of 1885 were not critical for that timeline- they are important in a more roundabout way but they didnt HAVE to happen for the FCB timeline to happen.

  • I just think either both events should have been erased, or neither one should have been. I guess the "Clayton Ravine" thing was placed there mostly for the emotional effect (the idea that Clara fell over the ravine, and Jules and Verne were never born).

  • @bttf4444 said: What bothers me about the whole thing is the inconsistency. On one hand, the events of 1885 were retroactively erased - even though there was no trip make to that date or before. On the other hand, though, Marty (and Doc) was still in 1931 both times prior to the event - even though Citizen Brown Marty also couldn't have gone there.

    First off, I never really bought the idea that changes in the time could retroactively change events of the past. I mean, I can understand the events of 1955 not happening in the Citizen Brown timeline - but that's because 1955 comes after 1931, while 1885 comes before 1931. Second of all, even if we are to buy the idea that time travel can work that way - it doesn't make sense that only the events of 1885 would be erased, while the events of 1931 aren't.

    I completely understand where you're coming from. It just doesn't make sense for any event BEFORE the point of divergence to be affected. It goes completely against everything we've seen in the movies, and even the Game itself!

    Because, if you believe that the ripple effect retroactively undoes the actions of time travelers in the past, then that means there wouldn't have been a second Marty in 1955, in BTTF2, trying to get his parents together. For that matter, there wouldn't have been an Old Biff either and therein lies the seeds of paradox.

    I agree they did it mostly for the emotional impact of Clara having died and Jules and Verne never existing-and also to drive home the point of all the events of the previous movies being undone (much like how they explicitly make the point about George and Lorraine reverting to their unsuccessful TP versions).

    The best explanation I can think of is that by radically altering the timeline of Emmett Brown, such that he doesn't even CONCEIVE of time travel, it upset the entire space-time continuum, such that ALL time travels to the past were erased, except the ones which were needed for the current alternate timeline to come into existence. By that logic, killing Emmett when he was a baby, or preventing his birth, may well blow up the universe! Emmett Brown is apparently the lynchpin who holds the space-time continuum together...mess with him, and time gets messed up.

    But its interesting to consider the reality warping implications though. At the end of Episode 2, the moment Edna prevents Emmett from going to see Frankenstien, all kinds of changes would be taking place in Hill Valley. All signboards identifying 'Eastwood Ravine' would change to 'Clayton Ravine' with people's memories being accordingly altered, Doc's letter which has been with Western Union for 46 years would vanish (along with all memory of it!), the Delorean buried in Delgado Mine would vanish, anybody who remembered a certain eccentric blacksmith, his wife Clara and their two kids would have their memories altered to forget them...altogether things would be real messed up!

  • @sn939 said: I completely understand where you're coming from. It just doesn't make sense for any event BEFORE the point of divergence to be affected. It goes completely against everything we've seen in the movies, and even the Game itself!

    Because, if you believe that the ripple effect retroactively undoes the actions of time travelers in the past, then that means there wouldn't have been a second Marty in 1955, in BTTF2, trying to get his parents together. For that matter, there wouldn't have been an Old Biff either and therein lies the seeds of paradox.

    I agree they did it mostly for the emotional impact of Clara having died and Jules and Verne never existing-and also to drive home the point of all the events of the previous movies being undone (much like how they explicitly make the point about George and Lorraine reverting to their unsuccessful TP versions).

    The best explanation I can think of is that by radically altering the timeline of Emmett Brown, such that he doesn't even CONCEIVE of time travel, it upset the entire space-time continuum, such that ALL time travels to the past were erased, except the ones which were needed for the current alternate timeline to come into existence. By that logic, killing Emmett when he was a baby, or preventing his birth, may well blow up the universe! Emmett Brown is apparently the lynchpin who holds the space-time continuum together...mess with him, and time gets messed up.

    But its interesting to consider the reality warping implications though. At the end of Episode 2, the moment Edna prevents Emmett from going to see Frankenstien, all kinds of changes would be taking place in Hill Valley. All signboards identifying 'Eastwood Ravine' would change to 'Clayton Ravine' with people's memories being accordingly altered, Doc's letter which has been with Western Union for 46 years would vanish (along with all memory of it!), the Delorean buried in Delgado Mine would vanish, anybody who remembered a certain eccentric blacksmith, his wife Clara and their two kids would have their memories altered to forget them...altogether things would be real messed up!

    that's the only logical explanation I can come up with; while the trilogy's time travels led to the FCB timeline in a round about way they weren't actually NEEDED. Doc could have gone to 1931 from the getgo (mind you marty needed to know how the time machine works). But the 1931 time travels were essential for that time travel. If they get erased so does the timeline.

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