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When can we expect to see SOMETHING about Telltale's KQ?

posted by Blackthorne519 on - last edited - Viewed by 2.1K users

I wonder when we'll see or hear something substantial about Tell-Tale's King's Quest game.


Bt

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  • @Cez said: Because "saving" shouldn't be part of a game experience, it just breaks the immersion by reminding you that this is a game, and you have menus.



    Didn't break my immersion. Of course, I've developed the saving procedure to a 0.5 second event.

  • I hear immersion factor all the time, but I never had a problem with it. I never lost immersion factor when I had to put a book down because I didn't read it in one sitting.

    Saving the game was always just something you did. I suppose it was because that's how technology worked in the early days. Sure, you can do it differently now - but just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you should. Constant auto-saving and retry buttons water down the gaming experience - it's something that appeals to the lowest common denominator in my eyes. You have to have some standards somewhere. It's all up to the designers, really.


    Bt

  • Ok, if menus take you out of 'immersion"... That WTH are menus doing in 'death messages' (a death message is a type of 'menu')? The "menus" arguement can be used to strip out almost everything that made the old Sierra games interesting, including 'deaths'...

    BTW, the only game I think of that had a 'no menu' death sequences was Shadows of Destiny, in that a death would bring you before the Homunculus who would describe how you died, the mistake you made, and the give you a another chance to change things. It was all fairly organic (and fairly non-linear) as choices could lead to the six endings (and 2 more in the "new game +")...

    As I mentioned before, the new adventures that have removed death (or any alternative paths), and put 'adventures' on linear rails... Have pretty much removed any need to have any save games (other than as a 'bookmark')... This has made many of them less compelling in my opinion.

    I always felt like the ability to save anywhere was just another tool in my adventure game box, like the hand or talk icons. It was an integral part of the experience for me.

    If you think about it, didn't Roberta, and other designers, that 'simplified' game menus, down to a single icon (KQ7) or menuless games, in order to 'improve immersion' ironically strip much of the 'immersion' that previous games had? With simplified controls/menus, removed all the interesting extra information given through 'eye', 'hand' (in most sierra games), 'smell', 'taste' (space quest!) could offer a player...

    If you go back further, the advanced parser in the middle to late AGI and early SCI games offered even more immersion in games than the mouse/icon system did, as it offered for even more 'actions' (all sorts of verbs) for the player, only limited by the player's, and designer's own imagination.

    Think for example, in SQ2, one of the puzzles involved "hold breath". But when Infamous Adventures redesigned the puzzle in their remake, they couldn't figure out how to implement that same 'action' with the more limited icon system!

    Likewise many of the other remakes and fan remakes stripped out some of the extra messages that could be achieved by trying to use more imaginative verb noun combinations! Like for example trying to type 'dig' on various screens, or 'jump', 'kill', etc.

  • @BagginsKQ said:
    Think for example, in SQ2, one of the puzzles involved "hold breath". But when Infamous Adventures redesigned the puzzle in their remake, they couldn't figure out how to implement that same 'action' with the more limited icon system!



    I'd like to chime in here...it's not that we "couldn't figure out" how to make this puzzle work in point and click, it's that we all agreed it was a stupid puzzle in the first place--one of those needlessly obscure things designed to sell hintbooks--and decided to take it out. We talked about making the player use the mouth icon before diving, but it just seemed pointless, as no real person in their right mind would dive under water without holding their breath. It was a stupid, stupid puzzle.

    I agree with everything else you've said, by the way.

  • @MusicallyInspired said: Yeah, the bridle is absolutely the worst puzzle in King's Quest history.


    No it's not. My family found it easily enough, and my parents aren't really that into adventure games.

    Even more astounding as most people dislike KQ5 while KQ4, on the other hand, is a high ranking fan favourite.Did you forget when I said:

    @MusicallyInspired said: Also, as a music enthusiast, you should be well aware that the two most important parts of any experience are the first impression and the last impression. To give [KQ5's] last significant puzzle a moon logic solution as well as to make it dead-endable is a bad design choice.

    Further, the cheese is in a dark hole inside a dark room, and as I recall there are unimportant mice that randomly run out of rooms as you enter them when you navigate the catacombs in KQ6. It makes some sense to overlook a dark hole in a dark room even with a random mouse when you didn't even intend to get caught in the first place. (Also, in KQ6, you can get caught in the castle once and nothing of importance is in your cell.)

    The bridle is inside a big ruined boat on a bright, sunny island you try to get to on purpose, rather than in a dungeon cell which you did not. Also, it makes sense to not be able to look into the boat if it's big enough that you couldn't see into it if you were standing in a place where the hull is blocking your view.

    But whether or not you think the cheese is in an obvious location, anyone should know that they need some method of control for the unicorn, while there is no reason whatsoever to indicate you need cheese to power a magic-transference machine. So, if you are at the machine without the cheese, you're screwed. If you're at the unicorn without the bridle, at least you have some idea what the heck you're looking for.

    Did I mention that the last impression given of KQ5 is a dead-endable puzzle with an entirely illogical solution, and that the last impression is one of the two most important parts of an experience? Yes. I did. (the spells don't count as they're only 4-option multiple choice, which requires no significant cognitive ability.)

  • You're reaching there, Chyron.

    So to recap:

    In KQ4: object is found in completely random location with absolutely no in-game clues to look in said location. And on top of that, looking in that location only reveals the object if the player is standing in a very specific spot on the screen.

    In KQ5: object is found in logical location with strong visual clues pointing you to look in said location. Clicking the Hand icon on the rat hole can be done from anywhere on the screen, and the player character will walk over and reach in the hole.

    No contest.

    Also, the little island is NOT something you were "trying to get to," as you describe it. You get there by getting swallowed by the whale while swimming out to Genesta's island. It's just as random as getting caught by the blue beast while exploring Mordack's castle.

  • Okay, so I missed the cheese but not the bridle, while some others did vice versa.

    I maintain my point about the solutions to said puzzles and the need for a good last impression.

  • No one's arguing that the cheese powering the wand machine isn't ridiculous (it totally is.) Just that at least with that one, if you've got the cheese in your inventory, it's only a matter of trial and error (still bad design) before you will eventually solve it. The KQ4 bridle thing is just SO obscure, and on top of that is in such a specific area of the screen in such a specific area of the game that you can't get to once you've left it--it's just terrible. :)

    But yeah, they're both pretty bad. For my money, having to wait in the library for Mordack is even worse than the cheese machine though. :)

  • "5. If you could ask Roberta one question about the land of Daventry, what would that question be?

    "Why did the cheese start the machine?" -Josh Mandel, from The Royal Scribe.



    http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/The_Royal_Scribe

    No, seriously, can someone ask Roberta that the next time they get the chance of interviewing her! Inquiring minds wanna know! Maybe, someone could ask Ken, maybe he could find out?

  • My last impression of KQ5 was the spectacular magic battle. The cheese thing was just a stepping stone (or stumbling block, to some). I had a fantastic last impression on the game. I also did not have a problem finding the cheese, which is the main issue. I'm not arguing that throwing it in the machine is is retarded. But at least you have it in your inventory and acquiring it isn't a big issue. The bridle, on the other hand, is kind of the opposite problem. You know what you have to do with it once you get it but acquiring it or even knowing it's there on the island is an assumption the game shouldn't have made about the player. It's (slightly) better to have it and not know what it's for than to not have something you need that can only be found in an incredibly obscure placement with no logical sensibility as to why it is there. But both are bad.

    I'm quite surprised nobody has asked Roberta about the cheese, actually.

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