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Star Trek... the Next Thread

posted by BagginsKQ on - last edited - Viewed by 2.7K users

**IRISHMILE EDIT** ok here is your Star Trek thread instead of talking about it on the Kings Quest section.. Enjoy.. we will now return to your previous conversation.............
** END IRISHMILE EDIT**

I'd surely like to ignore the last Star Trek movie (what kind of writer destroys "Romulus and Remus" in an offscreen/minor incident, rather than focusing on it as a major movie in its own right/Why ignore 60 years of Star Trek time travel mechanics? I.E. if you change time, your previous timeline ceases to exist/paradox created, I.E. City on the Edge of Forever (Original Series), Yesterday's Enterprise (TNG) or Past Tense on DS9, etc, thus the need for Temporal Prime Directives, and an agency that monitors for changes in the timeline?)

http://www.tunequest.org/star-trek-2009-permanency/20090604/

...or the last episode of Enterprise...

Oh well... unfortunately all future Star Trek shows and movies will take those into account... Nothing I can do about it...

140 Comments - Linear Discussion: Classic Style
  • aliens speak in absolutely ridiculous accents rather than alien languages

    Racist stereotypes might be a more apt description...

  • @BagginsKQ said: Why ignore 60 years of Star Trek time travel mechanics? I.E. if you change time, your previous timeline ceases to exist/paradox created, I.E. City on the Edge of Forever (Original Series), Yesterday's Enterprise (TNG) or Past Tense on DS9, etc, thus the need for Temporal Prime Directives, and an agency that monitors for changes in the timeline?)

    You obviously don't watch enough Trek. The TNG episode Parallels explains the concept that "anything that can happen does happen in alternate quantum realities." In that episode, Worf was being pushed from one alternate timeline to another to another. Also, this parallel universe concept is used with regard to the Mirror Universe which was introduced in the TOS episode Mirror, Mirror and was used in various episodes of DS9 and ENT.

    Also, you cite Yesterday's Enterprise as evidence of time paradox, but The Enterprise-C didn't go back in time to prevent a paradox (as everyone considered that it should stay until Guinan changed Picard's mind); rather, they went back because the Klingons were about to win the war--a war which the Enterprise-C could have entirely prevented in the past by returning to fight at Narendra III. Similar said for City on the Edge of Forever and Past Tense. These episodes aren't about preventing paradoxes, but about restoring the known universe to the timeline which the time-travellers are familiar with.

  • You obviously don't watch enough Trek.


    Actually I've been watching through them in the last few months... So they are fresh in my mind... Just went through Nextgen, and I am now working my way through DS9...
    You obviously don't watch enough Trek. The TNG episode Parallels explains the concept that "anything that can happen does happen in alternate quantum realities." In that episode, Worf was being pushed from one alternate timeline to another to another. Also, this parallel universe concept is used with regard to the Mirror Universe which was introduced in the TOS episode Mirror, Mirror and was used in various episodes of DS9 and ENT.

    Actually in 'parallels', and other parallel universes, like the mirror universe, or Lazarus anti-matter universe, its explained that they universes exist outside the actions of 'prime universe'. Actions in one universe, has no influence on actions of another... and vice versa...

    A choice in prime universe, doesn't spinoff another 'alternate universe'. The previous timeline simply doesn't exist, it ceases to exist.

    That's why Spock, Guinan, and in Temporal Agents in DS9 and Voyager, go out of there way to fix history, investigate those who try to change time, and prevent history from being changed... All 'choices', do affect a single timeline the prime universe, and any 'travels' back in time, rewrites the future. Thus having to fix things through the Guardian by making sure Edith Keeler dies, 'Gabriel Bell' having to 'die' defending the hostages during the Bell Riots, or by sending Enterprise-C back to be destroyed in its own time...

    In many of these cases, when time isn't fixed, the Federation ceases to exist, or is destroyed... Only a few characters from the regular timeline continue exist (but see that things are different), because they are protected in a timeless state, or chroniton particles etc...

    Guinan is interesting because she exists in a way on multiple timestreams, and is capable of seeing when somethign has changed the prime timeline, and thus knowing it needs to be fixed... See Yesterday's Enterprise.

    If 'quantam theory' was in affect, there would be no reason to have temporal police, because time could never be changed, and there would be no way to fix it. they would just be creating new 'parallel universes', splitting off from the others.

    of course, let's not forget All Good Things, where the Anti-Time eruption, is growing bigger as it goes further back in time, and threatens destroying the creation fo the entire prime universe! Unless, Picard figured out how to stop it before it was created, and allowing 'present'! Correcting the timeline, and destroying the anti-time past, and anti-time future events.... Once fixed, the present went on, as if it events never happened!

    Of course, in First Contact, there is the whole plot that they have to go back and stop the borg, or First Contact will never happen, and Earth and universe is assimilated... they briefly see for a moment Earth covered in borg cities... The idea is that they were worried about 'fixing the timeline they came from', rather than worrying about creating a new timeline in a new universe ('splitting' timeline)...

    Enterprise even took that further, by showing that Archer being 'brought' to the future, wiped out the creation of the Federation, and allowed the others in the Temporal Cold War a chance to win...

    But yes, my point is that time travelers know that they have 'restore' time... That's the problem with Star Trek 2009... Spock is out of character, because in the past shows, he knew that 'time had to be restored' (see all original series time travel episodes). Otherwise time as he understood ceased to exist... But in 2009 movie, he doesn't care to correct things, and decides to let the events develop on its own ('let them choose events for themselves.)

    BTW, for that matter, the temporal agents, who spend there time shielded from time changes (so that they can go back and fix things), should have noticed something such as the Kelvin being destroyed, or Vulcan being destroyed, and going back to 'fix' things themselves! So ya, the movie creates certain plotholes with the rest of the series, by trying to shove itself into the regular series universe with its time travel story...

    I suppose, if it turns out that Spock didn't 'go back in time', but rather went back into the past of a separate universe (like the Tholians did in In a Mirror, Darkley/Tholian's Web), then it wouldn't 'erase' the prime universe (ala mechanics of the regular trek series)... However, Nero's actions to 'destroy Vulcan' would be kind of pointless, since he's not destroying Spock's world, but some other universes's Vulcan... But then again Nero, is a rather ridiculous villain in general... Why did he spend 20 years sitting around, instead of going around causing trouble to the federation... Or why didn't he try to warn the Romulans of their world's doom from the 'galaxy destroying supernova' (as spock puts it)... The movie is so full of plotholes...

    Also, the whole, "escaping' a black hole.... By jettising your warp core, and riding the explosion.... Hahahahhahahahahha..... Ya right....

    In anycase, this essay pretty much clearly mentions and describes the descrepencies of classic trek time travel, and Star Trek XI's version of time travel (he still acknowledges the issue, though I suspect, he actually likes Star Trek XI)...

    http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/treknology/timetravel-trekxi.htm

  • My fucking brain just exploded.

    I need to read some Dr. Suess right now to feel better.


    Bt

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    exo

    ahahahahaha, reading that was great. it was like an amazing logic bitch slap.

    doesn't watch enough star trek my ass...hahahaha

  • There's only one reason why the 2009 movie has time travelers behaving different.

    pile-of-money.jpg

    Money trumps fiction logic every time!


    Bt

  • Money is the reason alot of crappy sequels and remakes are made also... Think Highlander series... Jaws, or the prequel star wars films, or the many edited versions of star wars films... Planet of the Apes series also comes to mind...

    Etc...

  • Star Trek 09 is far better than all of those.

    The planet of the apes reboot wasn't so bad. I haven't seen the latest one but I hear that was good as well. That last Highlander movie wasn't so bad (where Lambert's character dies).

  • http://m.news24.com/channel24/Movies/News/JJ-Abrams-not-a-fan-of-Star-Trek-series-20111229

    star Trek 2009 could have been better and more consistent with the rest of the series if Abrams had actually been a fan of the series but he wasn't and isn't.

    They only hired him because he makes the big bucks... But eh IMO his movie was generic, cliche, predicable and derivative like most movies in recent years... It doesn't make you think, and is just there to be mindless entertainment... Frankly perfect for the ADD riddled populous....

    Actually the plot has quite a few similarities to other Abrams offerings... Just set in space... You can pretty much watch any two of his series and. Office how they tend recycle many of the same ideas, mysteries, including similar time travel plots... He is a seriously overhyped producer/director...

    http://www.youtube.com/embed/yd0j97RhZUQ

    People worry about telltale pulling of King's Quest when the developers have stated they were never fans...

  • @BagginsKQ said: star Trek 2009 could have been better and more consistent with the rest of the series if Abrams had actually been a fan of the series but he wasn't and isn't. They only hired him because he makes the big bucks...

    I liked Star Trek 2009 a lot. In fact, it's right up there with my other favorite Trek movies (2, 4, 6, and Nemesis).

    The reason why JJ Abrams not initially being a Trek fan is a good thing, is because he's not intrinsically bound to the many constraints that the Trek universe had set for itself. I've seen the behind-the-scenes stuff for his Trek movie and he did seek a lot of input from various people, each of whom had different levels of interest in/knowledge about Trek (some of whom are serious die-hard fans).

    Actually, the one thing I remember most about what JJ said Trek needed was that Star Trek is like classical music and Star Wars is like rock music; so he felt that Star Trek needed some "rock" injected into it in order for the franchise to capture new audiences. And you know... I agree with him about that. Star Trek, while awesome, had become so bound by its established canon, that it would have been difficult to continue the franchise with the intention of gaining new fans without rebooting it and/or finding a new and different approach for it to take.


    King's Quest is a different matter. It didn't need new life breathed into it, nor did it need to be continued at all, and especially (if I may continue the injecting-one-franchise's-style-into-another concept) King's Quest does NOT need Monkey Island injected into it.

    The only reason to continue the KQ franchise is to recapture the interest of previous hardcore adventure game fans. Telltale, for its own part, has had a recent track record of dumbing down their gameplay and overlooking bugs, as well the episodic nature of their games doesn't lend itself well to a feeling of unimpeded exploration. King's Quest doesn't need a fresh, new face; moreso, it needs to be respected. Star Trek's problem was entirely different, so it's not really the same thing when considering a reboot.

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