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Movie Paradox that nobody mentions

posted by Rogers on - last edited - Viewed by 1.4K users

I have kept this to myself for about a year, mostly because the semantics necessary to describe this are beyond me...but here it goes.

From movie 2 onwards, there is an atrocious paradox. This is because of the trip to 2015, and the subsequent events that was caused by this. Basically, we have the following events happen in sequence:

-Doc and Marty go to 2015 where Future Marty was in a car accident.
-Old Biff goes to 1955, Doc and Marty follow and get the Almanac back,
-Lightning sends the Delorean to the old West, Marty follows.
-Marty overcomes his "chicken" phobia in the West and goes back to 1985
-Marty with new experiences does not get in a car accident.

This means that the 2015 from movie 2 is erased and Future Marty is no longer a loser. This means Marty Jr. will grow up better and there is no need for Doc to bring Marty to 2015. Biff never sees the almanac/time machine and he doesn't go to 1955 to meet his younger self. This means Marty doesn't go to the Wild West and never gets over his "chicken phobia", but this means that the 2015 with loser Future Marty DOES exist...

So, this is a complete paradox, as bad as there being a Carl Sagan in FCB's timeline.

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  • @sn939 said: The real reason George and Lorraine reverted back to their TP versions is because Marty's original 1955 trip was erased from the timeline. This is explicitly stated by Marty in Episode 3.



    One thing i forgot is what happened to the clocktower itself in 1955? We know it's docs office in 1986, i remember edna has a recording on the history of the clock tower including it being constructed in 1885. Obviously the lightning strike still happens but is that when they constructed it to an office?

  • Hi all--First post for me here.This subject has always fascinated me and reading through this thread made me think about a few things.
    I am a layman (woman),therefore I might not understand the finer points and nuances of quantum physics/mechanics.
    According to what I understand regarding Heisenburg's Uncertainty Principle (Many-Worlds Uncertainty)and Schrodinger's Cat Paradox,nothing in the movie(s) BTTF is paradoxical because all possible futures/iterations exist simultaneously and every outcome is possible because there isn't just one singular timeline.
    According to the many-worlds theory--once a decision is made and an action is employed--all the events play out in a certain way on that particular timeline and the 'observer' there has no knowledge or memory regarding what goes on in any of the alternate/other universes.
    The BTTF movies are among my favorites and I have found that if I question things too much that it interferes with my immersion to some extent so I just have to allow for a certain suspension of disbelief.
    Having said that--all of this may possibly be moot in the first place,as from what I understand--time travel into the past is not possible/viable,as nothing can exceed the speed of light (yes--I know about neutrinos possibly refuting that,as well as even MORE theoretical tachyons).It's also my understanding that travelling to the past would set up an infinite feedback,which would have dire consequences.
    So,there's my two cents. girl_cool.gif

  • @Michael J Fox is Canadian said: One thing i forgot is what happened to the clocktower itself in 1955? We know it's docs office in 1986, i remember edna has a recording on the history of the clock tower including it being constructed in 1885. Obviously the lightning strike still happens but is that when they constructed it to an office?



    Probably.

    Actually we have no idea how 1955 turned out in this reality. All we know is that Marty didn't show up to play matchmaker for his parents.

    It really depends on how much influence Edna and Emmett had been able to exert on the city by this point.

    We DO know that on November 5th, Doc had the vision for the Flux Capacitor, though he didn't realize it was the key to time travel...he adapted it into his symbol instead.

  • @sn939 said: Probably.

    Actually we have no idea how 1955 turned out in this reality. All we know is that Marty didn't show up to play matchmaker for his parents.

    It really depends on how much influence Edna and Emmett had been able to exert on the city by this point.

    We DO know that on November 5th, Doc had the vision for the Flux Capacitor, though he didn't realize it was the key to time travel...he adapted it into his symbol instead.



    well i'm assuming the timeline wouldnt be that different that the weather could have changed :) I just dont' remember if Edna mentions anything about it getting struck by lightning in 1955.

    This is a good indication of the 'self preservation theory'; that the space time continuum avoids paradoxes and has similar events happening in different timelines.

  • @Michael J Fox is Canadian said: well i'm assuming the timeline wouldnt be that different that the weather could have changed :) I just dont' remember if Edna mentions anything about it getting struck by lightning in 1955.

    This is a good indication of the 'self preservation theory'; that the space time continuum avoids paradoxes and has similar events happening in different timelines.



    Well, I'm not sure about the 'avoiding paradoxes' parts-since time travel not being invented is a HUGE paradox...but you're right about the 'similar events' part.

    We can be certain though that even in this timeline, George got hit by Lorraine's dad's car...since that's the only way she would fall in love with him (without Marty playing matchmaker).

  • @sn939 said: Well, I'm not sure about the 'avoiding paradoxes' parts-since time travel not being invented is a HUGE paradox...but you're right about the 'similar events' part.

    We can be certain though that even in this timeline, George got hit by Lorraine's dad's car...since that's the only way she would fall in love with him (without Marty playing matchmaker).



    its sketchy about 1955 all we can assume is there was no marty, like you previously stated we dont know whether edna and Emmett were in power. If they were (lets say it was run the same way as they ran 1986) george wouldn't have been a peeping tom, that sort of thing would have been punished.

    Even with time travel not being invented, you could argue the space time continuum still provided the avenue for that to happen. For instance some of docs notebook gets erased but not all did (though you could argue doc still invents the flux capacitor).

  • @Michael J Fox is Canadian said: its sketchy about 1955 all we can assume is there was no marty, like you previously stated we dont know whether edna and Emmett were in power. If they were (lets say it was run the same way as they ran 1986) george wouldn't have been a peeping tom, that sort of thing would have been punished.

    Even with time travel not being invented, you could argue the space time continuum still provided the avenue for that to happen. For instance some of docs notebook gets erased but not all did (though you could argue doc still invents the flux capacitor).



    Maybe they were just starting to gain power and influence, but they hadn't taken over the city yet completely and established their police state. Obviously the process of establishing the 'Citizen Brown' state was a gradual one spanning decades...it didn't happen overnight!

  • @Michael J Fox is Canadian said: Not sure the relevance of that here lol but yes you are right, George claims he does not stand up to Biff in episode 3. And it does make sense as george and lorraine act more like they did in the first timeline. Lorraines drinking, she doesn't get along with George, he's a peeping tom (to a different extent though).



    What I'm saying is that it shows that just because one McFly learns to stand up for himself, does not mean that his son does. So, Marty standing up to Needles has no effect on Marty Jr.'s relationship with Griff.

  • @BttF_LttP said: What I'm saying is that it shows that just because one McFly learns to stand up for himself, does not mean that his son does. So, Marty standing up to Needles has no effect on Marty Jr.'s relationship with Griff.



    True enough. Still I feel that since Marty, in the Eastwood timeline, has seen what his son ended up being in Lone Pine 2015, may well make efforts to ensure he turns out differently, and stands up to Griff. If he had the will to change his own future, you can be damned sure he will at least try to change his son's!

  • @BttF_LttP said: What I'm saying is that it shows that just because one McFly learns to stand up for himself, does not mean that his son does. So, Marty standing up to Needles has no effect on Marty Jr.'s relationship with Griff.



    @BttF_LttP said: True enough. Still I feel that since Marty, in the Eastwood timeline, has seen what his son ended up being in Lone Pine 2015, may well make efforts to ensure he turns out differently, and stands up to Griff. If he had the will to change his own future, you can be damned sure he will at least try to change his son's!

    both valid points here; Marty learned to stand up for himself on his own without George. Look at the different timelines;
    twin pine: Arthur coward, George coward,
    lone pine: Arthur coward, george confident
    FCB: Arthur confident, george coward
    last timeline: Arthur confident, george confident

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