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Did Curse destroy Monkey Island?

posted by Ash735 on - last edited - Viewed by 3K users

Clearly there are a few people here that view Curse as the actual down point of the series, really laying into it, saying that the series would be better off dead than to have the Curse/Escape/Tales stories. Now, strong views, could be because of how they perceive the story or it could be something to do with the lack of Ron Gilbert being the main series runner once MI2 ended, but here's a coin flip thread, for anything that was done/explained in Curse, I'm going to take a look at why it was BAD and why it was GOOD. So let's get started:

THE BIG ONE: It was all a Dream/Curse??
BAD: In Monkey Island 1 and 2 we have many modern day references, as Monkey Island 2 progresses further into weirdness at the end we learn that LeChuck and Guybrush are brothers and are really kids at some amusement park, we're lead to believe that the series was actually in the head of a child with an over active imagination, as the credits roll we see Chuckie's eyes glow and somewhat resemble LeChuck facial features, but hey, this is just a cheeky nod to the gamer right? If we believe this route, then there would never be a Monkey Island 3, the idea is out, why would gamers want to play a game storyline they know is just the imagination of some kid, any threatening things in such story wouldn't matter anymore (which is odd seeing as Guybrush can Die in both Monkey Island 1 and 2). There were loads of book titles in the library that mention why Trilogies suck, etc so even though the idea was mentioned afterwards, Monkey Island 2 WAS meant to be the final story, the shock ending was meant to show the gamer that this amazing world they've been in for so long was actually just the dreams of a little boy.

GOOD: But wait, Chuckie's face turns into LeChuck as Guybrush and his parents walk away from him, and let's talk about Big Whoop, in the story, we already know that Four Crewmen and even LeChuck himself have seen Big Whoop and how terrible it is, yet here, in this odd tunnel, the crate is smashed, there is nothing in this crate except for a single E-Ticket, somethings not right here. Then we start seeing things from Melee Island and even the street from Melee Island itself, this is all getting weirder by the minute. Then comes the moment when Guybrush finally rips apart LeChuck, but wait, he's our Brother, our Kid Brother? And this Janitor appears telling us to get out? Then we get our weird ending, with the sinister glance from LeChuck to the player letting us know something is not right. And of course during the end credits we flash back to the Monkey Island universe where Elaine is waiting for Guybrush and comments that she hopes LeChucks hasn't put some kind of Curse on him and this is what Curse and essentially the rest of the series has built upon, has the rest of a series continued on from a throw away joke at the end of MI2, or was Guybrush really cursed and everything from waking up in the tunnels fake?


-- Coming Soon, LeChuck is a Cartoon Villain? The Four Map Pieces Explanation? An Amusement Park?? Continuity Problems? --

195 Comments - Linear Discussion: Classic Style
  • @Hiroshi Mishima said: We actually have no idea how far down it is to that skeleton from the Monkey Head.

    No. There is a head, and at the base of the head would be the top of the spine (ie. neck bones). Also, there is sunlight coming from the hole in the ground where the neck is. There is no room for the body of a huge robot to have been there.

    There was also a comment that LeChuck destroyed the carnival when he was resurrected out of anger for his repeated failures.

    Where was that? I don't think this is accurate.

    There's also enough missing information about Elaine's Grandfather to make the notion that Herman really was her grandfather. Being stuck on Monkey Island for many years could've seen him come into contact with other shipwrecked people, such as the boat you sailed to MI in the first game.

    No. The captain's log, in which the captain of The Sea Monkey mentions a man named "Toothrot" as his first mate, is located in the captain's quarters onboard the ship itself and it discusses events that happened before they (ie. he and Toothrot) ever reached the island:Quote from The Secret of Monkey Island

    [LIST]
    [*]"Captain's log, March 10th: First Mate Toothrot and I have been searching for Monkey Island™ for over a month with no success. The directions we purchased on Melee proved to be a recipe, not a map as we had believed.
    [*] "Captain's log, March 12th: I wish Toothrot would take a bath.
    [*] "Captain's log, March 17th: I wish Toothrot would stop snoring.
    [*] "Captain's log, March 23rd: Toothrot is really starting to get on my nerves. I figure it's only a matter of time before we come to blows.
    [*] "Captain's log, April 2nd: As a gesture to restore our friendship, Toothrot offered to fix dinner tonight.
    [*] "Captain's log, April 3rd: I don't know how we did it, but we've arrived at Monkey Island™. Both Toothrot and I passed out from the soup he fixed last night. When we woke, Monkey Island™ was sitting off the port bow.
    [*] "Captain's log. April 4th: Toothrotand I filled the rowboat with supplies and are ready to set out to Monkey Island™. We are both excited at the prospect of being the first civilised people to learn the Secret of Monkey Island™.
    [*] "Captain's log, April 5th: We had to turn around and return to the ship. Toothrot forgot to go to the bathroom before we left. We'll set out again tomorrow.
    [/LIST]
    That was the last entry."
    Also, when LeChuck said all those things about Elaine's grandfather in MI3, it's entirely possible he was just trying to make her suffer.He doesn't want her to suffer--he wants her to love him. He does want her to die, but only so they can be happily undead together for eternity. Further, that explanation was for the sake of tying up the loose ends left by MI2. They have to be accurate, otherwise the point of their being included is lost.

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    Jennifer Moderator

    I never had a problem with the giant monkey head robot, but I always thought it would be cooler (and fit in better) if the giant monkey came out of the ground as a full skeleton, and then the voodoo magic caused it's boney body (and head) to be encased in metal.

    And I liked Jambalya Island's touristy atmosphere because it continued the Disneyland connection that all of the Monkey Island games have had.

    I'm also not worried about the apparent retcon in regards to Herman, because I don't think it is a true retcon. I still think Elaine was cursed (by the Voodoo Lady, LeChuck, or both) to believe what they wanted her to think. She accepted Herman too readily and left the governorship on Melee Island too easily. Plus, I never thought Herman or the Voodoo Lady were as benevolent as they seemed.

    I didn't like Monkey Kombat though.

  • @Chyron8472 said: Where was that? I don't think this is accurate.

    I'm pretty sure Herman said it when you talk to him on Monkey Island in MI4. It was after hitting him with the Coconut, I believe. Or was it the Ghostly Priest? I can't remember, I just recall it being mentioned.

    I don't see where you're getting the "no there is a head so naturally the spine must follow" because it was never implied that the Monkey Head was an actual skull, especially given the way you opened it, it seems more likely that it was a mechanism or a statue.

    And what I said about the Sea Monkey's captain still stands. Having washed up on shore, he could've easily become delusional and started referring to the old man as Herman Toothrot. Or could've asked him if he'd seen such a person. A lot can happen in 20 years, you know. There's all kinds of ways to try and explain it away.

    Also, if LeChuck didn't want Elaine to feel upset or angry, he wouldn't keep doing terrible things to her. Many guys who don't have a clue often are mean to women they like (this is also especially noticeable amongst younger people). It's called teasing.

  • @Hiroshi Mishima said: it was never implied that the Monkey Head was an actual skull, especially given the way you opened it, it seems more likely that it was a mechanism or a statue.


    The sunlight coming from the hole shows that the neck is very near to the surface.

    And what I said about the Sea Monkey's captain still stands. Having washed up on shore, he could've easily become delusional and started referring to the old man as Herman Toothrot.

    The captain calls him "Toothrot" before they ever reached the island. Herman claims to only have been called Toothrot after reaching the island. That's my entire point. Either way, Toothrot's information is false (as he is either lying or insane) and any further testimony by him can not be considered accurate.

    if LeChuck didn't want Elaine to feel upset or angry, he wouldn't keep doing terrible things to her.

    Whatever he does to Elaine is always a method to physically get a hold of her, to physically keep her close to him, or to persuade/force her to love him. He might try to kill her (in order to make her undead) but hurting her emotionally by intentioanally saying mean things about her family doesn't fit as a method he would use.

  • Problem with EMI is that it's trying too hard to repair the mess Curse did to the series and it really fails doing so.
    And yes I do think that Curse destroyed Monkey Island, or at least its spirit and atmosphere established in the first two installments.

  • I guess you've not got a lot of experience with the stupid things guys will say or do, Chryon, cause putting your foot in your mouth and never realizing it happens all the time so why should LeChuck be any different.

    However, leaving the whole "what he said" part aside, you're still not seeing what I said about Toothrot. The fact that he would've been called Toothrot AFTER he got to the island makes perfect sense considering what I'd said. If the captain of the Sea Monkey started calling him that after he got there (confusing him with his friend or maybe cause he'd gone insane) that'd naturally mean a Toothrot had already existed but that it doesn't necessarily make him the same person. Either I'm not wording this properly, or you're just not trying to see what I'm saying. There's such a thing as "assumed identity".

    Also, I think you're confusing sunlight with light in general. The robot monkey control areas were fairly well lit, so light could easily be pouring in from somewhere else.


    ..also, Voodoo Derina, in what way was Escape trying to fix Curse's mistakes? Besides the change in tone and art style? I don't really see how Escape was trying to steer it back towards what MI1 and 2 were all about. In fact, I'd sure hope we don't try steering it back to MI2, cause then we'd get another nonsensical ending.

  • @Hiroshi Mishima said: The fact that he would've been called Toothrot AFTER he got to the island makes perfect sense considering what I'd said. If the captain of the Sea Monkey started calling him that after he got there (confusing him with his friend or maybe cause he'd gone insane) that'd naturally mean a Toothrot had already existed but that it doesn't necessarily make him the same person. Either I'm not wording this properly, or you're just not trying to see what I'm saying. There's such a thing as "assumed identity".

    Have you played Escape recently? What Herman says in Escape is that his name is H.T. Marley, that he hit his head while on Monkey Island which made him lose his memory [hitting him again with the same object(s) undoes the damage], and that he found an object with H.T. written on it while on the island after hurting his head which prompted him to call himself "Herman Toothrot."

    Herman says in Escape that he didn't start calling himself Herman Toothrot until after he reached the island. However in SoMI, the captain's log onboard the ship that Herman used to arrive there clearly states that the captain called him Herman Toothrot before he reached the island.


    ...unless what you're trying to say is that the guy who was dead on Monkey Island in SoMI was not the captain but rather someone else named Herman Toothrot, but I'd say that's really reaching. It's more likely that the dead man is the captain, and--in keeping with his ship logs in which he complains at length about Herman--he killed himself because he couldn't put up with Herman anymore.

  • I had actually just played through Escape before starting up discussion about Escape in this thread. Finished it like.. beginning of February or something.

  • @Hiroshi Mishima said: There was also a comment that LeChuck destroyed the carnival when he was resurrected out of anger for his repeated failures.

    @Hiroshi Mishima said:
    Where was that? I don't think this is accurate.

    Herman Toothrot said that he destroyed the Carnival in a fit of rage if you ask him about it but Herman will muse LeChuck did it cos he was embarrassed by the idea of an evil amusement park.

  • CMI is the jewel in the crown of the monkey island series, breathtaking animation, wonderful soundtrack and storyline. how can you not love CMI???

    not to mention it was the first game to introduce us all to the legendary Murray!!!!!!

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