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What SHOULD be changed for the new KQ?

posted by gamingafter40 on - last edited - Viewed by 520 users

There has been a lot of good discussion here about what makes King's Quest King's Quest, and what old-school styles and design elements we'd like to see retained. With that in mind, what are some things we feel SHOULD be changed for a new King's Quest? And what are some risks the new designers should be willing to take?

These are strictly my own opinions:

I for one would like to see more personality -- I never felt like I knew who Sir/King Graham really was as a person. Who is this man who apologizes for disturbing insects, yet pushes old women into ovens without thinking twice about it? Is he a wise and effective ruler, or in over his head?

I'd like to see a few conversation puzzles, along with traditional give-the-right-thing-to-the-right-character KQ interactions. There are always colorful characters in the KQ universe, and monologues don't tell us very much about them.

I'm also happy to let navigation challenges fade away -- spending twenty minutes gingerly edging around the poisonous thorns in KQ II (because I didn't find the better alternate solution, I know!) was not an experience I'm anxious to repeat. If we must have physical movement puzzles, let them be like climbing the aerie cliff in KQ VI, where it's more a matter of timing and planning a route than pixel-level maneuvering.

I'd like to see "background" elements that are transformable conceal themselves better -- this shouldn't be a problem now, but the VGA palette subdivision provided unintended hints in a few of the old games.

And I'd like to get rid of the absolute dead-ends the old games were prone to -- I realize this may be seen as dumbing-down by many, but I would argue that forced backtracking does not create play value either. I'm very happy to realize I must have missed something after beating my head against a puzzle -- but I'd like an opportunity to find my way back to where I can correct it, without having to replay what I've already done!

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  • No unwinnable situations. That's one thing from the old days of adventure gaming I won't miss.

    Also, while those scenes may have been a pain in the ass, I want this game to have at least one long twisty pathway where a single bad step is instant death. It's tradition.

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    puzzlebox Telltale Staff

    @gamingafter40 said: spending twenty minutes gingerly edging around the poisonous thorns in KQ II (because I didn't find the better alternate solution, I know!) was not an experience I'm anxious to repeat.



    Haha, I did exactly the same thing in KQIV to get across the plank in the cave because I didn't find the lantern. Key tap, save... key tap, save... :p

  • @gamingafter40 said: I for one would like to see more personality -- I never felt like I knew who Sir/King Graham really was as a person. Who is this man who apologizes for disturbing insects, yet pushes old women into ovens without thinking twice about it? Is he a wise and effective ruler, or in over his head?



    Funny, the Graham I played with always had lots of personality. The insect-witch thing is simple good vs. evil, fairy-tale style. What further explanation is needed?

    @gamingafter40 said: I'd like to see a few conversation puzzles, along with traditional give-the-right-thing-to-the-right-character KQ interactions. There are always colorful characters in the KQ universe, and monologues don't tell us very much about them.

    The last thing Telltale needs is encouragement to keep pretending that dialogs are puzzles or an adequate substitute for meaningful gameplay.

    @gamingafter40 said: I'm also happy to let navigation challenges fade away -- spending twenty minutes gingerly edging around the poisonous thorns in KQ II (because I didn't find the better alternate solution, I know!) was not an experience I'm anxious to repeat. If we must have physical movement puzzles, let them be like climbing the aerie cliff in KQ VI, where it's more a matter of timing and planning a route than pixel-level maneuvering.

    I suspect this won't come into play because hot spots are not exact enough in 3D. But I hope there is some kind of pseudo-ambulatory challenges in the game -- that's exactly the kind of gameplay variety that distinguishes the Sierra-style.

    The worst possible answer to the question "What should be changed for the new KQ" is "strip it of everything that isn't standard in today's generic adventures". Do you really not have enough of those to play?

  • @thom-22 said: The worst possible answer to the question "What should be changed for the new KQ" is "strip it of everything that isn't standard in today's generic adventures". Do you really not have enough of those to play?


    It should also be noted that the correct answer also isn't "strip it of everything that would make it a Sierra game". I see a lot of LucasArts fans(distinguished from Adventure Game fans by their disdain for everything that does not emulate the LucasArts adventure style) celebrating the production of Kings Quest by Telltale, because it will finally lead to a King's Quest that "[they] can play".

    ...if you never wanted to play King's Quest, if you hated King's Quest before, what's with the sudden desire to play a game that is no different from others you may have played but with the skin of a series you never appreciated in the first place?!

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    Jennifer Moderator

    They should definitely stick to Sierra rules (with an auto-replay feature via prompt after deaths [preferably with an option to restore a saved game in the prompt as well] - that should please both modern adventure gamers and Sierra loyalists, because the fans in the latter category can easily restore a game from that point instead of auto-continuing). :) They've already mentioned they're going to have deaths, so I'm not too worried about that point.

    The only thing I think they should avoid with this new King's Quest is dead ends and arbitrary deaths (by that I mean stick to tense situation deaths like in Gabriel Knight or the first two Broken Sword games and deaths that are foreshadowed like going out in dangerous places are OK too [when you're warned how dangerous it is either by a character, the narrator, or even just by sight and/or sound]), but stay away from deaths that aren't obvious or foreshadowed). Sierra was already phasing those things out, and those are definitely two things that Telltale shouldn't bring back.

  • @gamingafter40 said:

    I for one would like to see more personality -- I never felt like I knew who Sir/King Graham really was as a person. Who is this man who apologizes for disturbing insects, yet pushes old women into ovens without thinking twice about it? Is he a wise and effective ruler, or in over his head?



    The one time graham pushed a women into an oven, she was a witch who kept turning kids into gingerbread, so I don't think graham needs a psych eval for that. They mention in KQ2 Graham has ruled fine, although you could argue about Daventry's condition in KQ3.

  • Really the only morally questionable thing Graham has done, was agreeing to send maidens to be sacrificed to dark Dragons...

    It is strange, that the man most have come to admire so much during his early adventures could be the same person who sent innocent girls off to be sacrificed to the fire-breathing dragon. Perhaps his good judgment and wisdom hadn't recovered from the shock of Alexander's kidnapping, or perhaps it was just poor advice on the part of his prime minister, Gerwain. KQC, 2nd Edition, 472 Not all the acts and decisions he has made over the years have been good ones, but he has always done what he felt was best for Daventry, even to the sacrifice of his only daughter. Rosella has forgiven him for taking her to the dragon, but the memory of Graham tying her to the stake, awaiting death with her eyes open and dry, still sometimes disturbs his dreams. That she was rescued and survived only eases the horror a little. KQC2E, 244


    The last thing Telltale needs is encouragement to keep pretending that dialogs are puzzles or an adequate substitute for meaningful gameplay.

    They are a traditional kind of Adventure puzzle actually, but mainly for companies like Lucasarts and Revolutiohn Software (see Broken Sword for an example) and others...

    Largely left out of Sierra games, until Quest For Glory and Gabriel Knight (maybe a few others)...

  • @BagginsKQ said: They are a traditional kind of Adventure puzzle actually, but mainly for companies like Lucasarts and Revolutiohn Software (see Broken Sword for an example) and others...



    When they're puzzles, ie. there is more than one possible outcome. The point is TT's dialogs never have any stakes; you just keep clicking until you hear everything.

  • @BagginsKQ said: ...even to the sacrifice of his only daughter. Rosella has forgiven him for taking her to the dragon, but the memory of Graham tying her to the stake, awaiting death with her eyes open and dry, still sometimes disturbs his dreams. That she was rescued and survived only eases the horror a little. KQC2E, 244



    Hey, that gives me a great idea for a fan game! Valanice (assuming she survives her suicide attempts in TSL) plots to murder Graham for what he did to Rosella, paralleling the Clytemnestra-Agamemnon-Iphigenia myths. LOL

  • DRAMA!

    Sophocles would be pleased.

    Bt

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