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***** was still alive!!!!!!! /SPOILERS

posted by Joshua1991 on - last edited - Viewed by 2.9K users

So I was doing a second playthrough of Ep 2 last night and I noticed closely that Larry was still alive, he was talking in his breath before Kenny smashed his head and brains in.

Sorry if I'm late on this just noticed this!

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  • @ronCYA said: Some of the responses I'm seeing here are really disturbing...

    sometimes i think people like zombie apocalyptic scenarios to justify the killing of other humans lol

  • @ronCYA said: For those saying that CPR could not have brought him back, particularly because he wasn't breathing for a few seconds... that is false.

    Only several months ago a person close to me came under a cardiac arrest. She was unconscious, wasn't breathing and her eyes were glazed over. The only thing I could do were chest compressions and it was fortunate that I did because it brought her back and she resumed breathing and consciousness. I'm no doctor, but speaking from first hand experience I can only recommend that you do the same if you see someone under an attack like that.

    My point is, Lee doing heart compressions could may as well have brought him back- Larry's death was hardly definite enough for Kenny to kill him.

    I also advise you all that if you see someone fall unconscious and stop breathing- please don't just assume they're already dead. Some of the responses I'm seeing here are really disturbing...

    First off, implying that people are disturbed for discussing an action in a computer game is a bit rude, it's a game no one is justifying it for real life. I for one am not about to drop a salt lick on anyone's head any time soon.

    As to CPR bringing back your friend, cardiac arrest does not usually means that their heart stops, your friend probably still had a pulse whereas Larry was reported as having none and cardiac arrest can lead to almost immediate death. I'm not saying that he was definitely dead or irretrievable, but considering the situation Kenny did have cause to be concerned.

  • I sided with Kenny and I am a paramedic. So this should be fun to explain why I allowed Kenny to off him, lol.

    CPR is the best tool we, as health care providers, can provide someone who is clinically dead within reason that they haven't been dead for too long. Clinically dead means that your heart has stopped beating or is not providing an adequate pulse.

    According to the American Heart Association (AHA) since 2010 the method for CPR is CAB (compression, airway, and breathing) instead of the old 2005 method ABC. There is more focus on the circulation or compressions since they have found that delays in compression are detrimental to the patients’ outcome. Delaying the start of compression or pausing in-between compression are considered delays in CPR. On a side note, some areas of emergency medicine go as far to say that compressions are the only thing needed to revive someone. Check Arizona’s method of dealing with cardiac situations which can be very insightful.

    Now for Larry’s cardiac problem. There really isn't a need to check for Larry’s pulse. He just dropped in front of you and we can all safely assuming he just had a heart attack. This is because his mental status went from conscious to unconscious and not breathing, with him holding onto his chest as he went down. He went from low risk of death to DEAD in about 2 seconds. To lose consciousness that fast would have meant that his blood pressure dropped which caused his brain to stop functioning properly due to the lack of oxygen via blood. The blood pressure dropped because his heart has stopped pumping efficiently. This could be due to the heart quivering and in a state of either ventricular tachycardia or ventricular fibrillation. Both states are shockable via defib or in an old crude method called a cardiac thump (giving a quick hammer-like thump to his chest). His heart could be in a worst state where there is no electrical activity, called asystole which is not shockable. If you had an EKG attached to him, you could see this happening to him in real time. Unfortunately, we are in zombie mix up and this isn't possible lol.

    So after saying all of that. Lily did have the right idea based on the old method and started CPR, albeit pretty slow. Now CPR is great, but there are some BIG assumptions here. We already know Larry has a non-specific heart condition that causes angina (chest pain) which is relieved by nitro. We don't why this occurs exactly. Are his arteries clogged or harden or is his heart failing due to other reasons?

    Why he just dropped dead I do know. His heart isn't, in some form, receiving the blood that carries the oxygen it needs.

    Now a lot of you are correct in stating that CPR will bring a dead person back to life for this particular case. However, the chances of someone being revived with CPR are pretty small and only increase with good compressions and when the CPR was started sooner to when the heart stop beating. There is a caveat though. If the block is bad enough to completely occlude the artery that provides the blood to the heart, you will have no way to oxygenate the heart and it will die anyway regardless of CPR. Thus, he could ultimately die anyway. If you were able to resume a stable rhythm, he would need to be quickly brought to a hospital that can perform a cardiac catheterization. They don’t perform that procedure with the person in a non-sustainable rhythm unless he dies on the table and not to mention there aren’t any nearby doctors to perform it. Unless you consider the zombie ones, they are excellent surgeon apparently >.<

    To tackle Larry speaking with CPR, this in fact could happen. Since it has been recorded by Arizona and others that people in cardiac arrest with CPR can act with purposeful movement. He speaks because you have raised his blood pressure high enough for him to function a little. Sadly Larry would’ve of probably stopped speaking once CPR stopped. This is because Larry probably suffered the mother of all heart attacks (bad heart occlusion) and will no doubt need surgery to open up his artery to help provided blood/oxygen to the living tissue since his heart is having trouble sustaining that rhythm without assistance. Sadly again, CPR is very exhausting so you probably won’t be able to keep him alive anyway for very long.

    Now if things couldn’t get worst, people can change into zombies without getting bitten. Isn’t that just peachy? So immediately knowing that, I would NOT perform any mouth to mouth resuscitation. I rather have a quick death then my face being chewed off. Though luckily for Larry and Arizona research compression are adequate enough lol. However, we don’t know how long or how quick or if we can even prevent a person from changing. That is a high risk to me and my fellow non-zombie mates that I am not willing to take.

    CPR is a great simple process, but it really isn’t so simple. Mix in the limited success, long recovery, Larry being a 300 pound gorilla of dead weight, chances of being turned to zombie without a bite, limited data on how they turn without a bite, stuck in a freezer and having a chance of a 300 pound gorilla becoming a 300 pound zombie gorilla. The choice is becoming pretty obvious.

    And to add some woes for Larry’s bad luck. If he does live, did enough heart tissue survive for him to continue on with this new zombie infested life style? How are you going to sustain his critical condition if you do resuscitate him? Are you going to become his personal breathing machine if he doesn’t breath on his own even with a pulse? In all cases, how the heck are you going to move a 300 pound gorilla that would need lots medical attention? He isn’t going to be able to defend himself. He is just dead weight. Ultimate in a unsafe zombie world, he is dead meat.

    So if there is something to take away from this, don’t have a heart attack during a zombie apocalypse =)

    P.S
    I did water down/skipped some things about CPR and some medical jumbo to keep things bearable to read. So if some of this is confusing, I can clarify or add if need be.

  • @Shaggywang (damn, I feel really dirty typing out your username), I posted the same thing in another thread, but perhaps not so clinical in description,(the difference being that I frequently need to take CPR/First Aid classes for my job, but it is NOT my sole job), but I had ultimately reached the same conclusion.

    Looking back in hindsight, I don't think there could have been anyway to really save Larry, apart from the writers pulling "magic" and having him make an instant full recovery. We know that the Walkers overrun the Farm in the end. Larry was a big dude, and would have probably been completely unconscious, at least not capable of turning tail and running. We know that every single adult there is suffering from malnourishment, and probably in a weakened state. It would have been a "Great, we saved his life to have to leave him behind for the Walkers!" type scenario.

  • @Shaggywang said: So if there is something to take away from this, don’t have a heart attack during a zombie apocalypse =)

    I'll keep this in mind lol

    Good info though. It's nice when people with real-world knowlege chime in on things. That being said though, sisterofshane brings up the point of "magic" and that the writers probably don't know what you know about the likelyhood of reviving someone with Larry's condition with CPR.

  • Thanks Shaggywang, it's good to get the input of someone who actually knows what he's talking about, as opposed to the theorycrafting from the rest of us. :D It is depressing to think that even if we had managed to bring him or anyone else suffering from a heart attack round in such a situation the prognosis would be so bleak, though I'm glad the game didn't pull a Hollywood on us with it.

  • @Sisterofshane said: @Shaggywang (damn, I feel really dirty typing out your username)

    Hahahaha, I get that a lot. I promise it was given to me with no filthy intention. Though, I did realize its dirty potential when I was banned from a counter-strike server some many years back lol. My friends gave me that nick name during high school since I looked like Shaggy from Scooby-Doo with my long "shaggy" hair. Why my friends decided on the last name, Wang, baffles even me. All I know that it’s based from some ninja character they watched from a movie that had the name Mr. Wang or something of the sort. So with their bright minds put together they made up the nickname Shaggywang. =P

    ----

    I did wish they distracted clementine before they killed him. That isn’t something a little girl should see. Nor should she (or the group for that matter) have seen me kill the guy on the fence.

  • Heart attacks aren't nearly this debilitating every time. My mother has had them and not gone to the hospital for days. Stupid of us but we live in the country so we don't always make the best decisions. If any of you ever have a heart attack or any heart problems, be sure you go right away to the hospital!

    Heart attacks themselves range in severity and cause. Go hit up wikipedia for more direct information. CPR is designed to manually cause the heart to pump but Larry could have possibly recovered. If the heart attacks are caused by blockages, pumping may move the blockage and restore his movement for a time(possibly allowing the clot to move to the brain and kill him more instantly). If the heart attacks were caused by faults in the sinoatrial node, CPR is a little more effective and could allow him to live long enough to get some of St. Johns medical supplies. Ignore the fact that the walkers eventually overrun the place and try to imagine a different scenario.

    All that being said, it probably is best to kill Larry but I considered it a choice in the matter of timing. Until we know for certain someone will turn, we should preserve their lives. I try to think, what if it were Clementine? I'd want Lily by my side to help me save her. Imagine if Clementine had been the one with muck on her back in the pharmacy in Episode 1. Kenny would have backed Larry in throwing her out. Katjaa is the one who likes Clem. Kenny just wants you around as muscle. Is that really who you want to side with?

  • @Chillforce said: Heart attacks aren't nearly this debilitating every time. My mother has had them and not gone to the hospital for days. Stupid of us but we live in the country so we don't always make the best decisions. If any of you ever have a heart attack or any heart problems, be sure you go right away to the hospital!

    Heart attacks themselves range in severity and cause. Go hit up wikipedia for more direct information. CPR is designed to manually cause the heart to pump but Larry could have possibly recovered. If the heart attacks are caused by blockages, pumping may move the blockage and restore his movement for a time(possibly allowing the clot to move to the brain and kill him more instantly). If the heart attacks were caused by faults in the sinoatrial node, CPR is a little more effective and could allow him to live long enough to get some of St. Johns medical supplies. Ignore the fact that the walkers eventually overrun the place and try to imagine a different scenario.

    All that being said, it probably is best to kill Larry but I considered it a choice in the matter of timing. Until we know for certain someone will turn, we should preserve their lives. I try to think, what if it were Clementine? I'd want Lily by my side to help me save her. Imagine if Clementine had been the one with muck on her back in the pharmacy in Episode 1. Kenny would have backed Larry in throwing her out. Katjaa is the one who likes Clem. Kenny just wants you around as muscle. Is that really who you want to side with?

    I still think the prospects of saving Larry were grim, at best. That said, you have a point that life is sacred, and should be preserved at all cost. I do think, though, that we were presented more of a dilemma of "save this versus that" as opposed to "save or not save".

    I've said in another thread that, in any other situation, I would have agreed to try to save Larry's life - if we were at the motor inn with all of our weapons handy, for example. But we are locked in a very small room, with no weapons. Most of the characters have made a point of how physically weak they all are (from lack of eating). We know that Walkers are incredibly strong - even the smaller ones, such as the baby sitter in Clem's house.

    Larry (like your mother) is predisposed for heart attacks - the last one we saw at the drug store was an example of a minor one. This one is enough to stop his breathing. I would feel pretty safe in saying that this specific heart attack really needs immediate medical treatment - the kind of treatment that we don't really have access to (even were we NOT trapped in the meat locker).

    If Larry had turned, I could guarantee you that SOMEONE in that room would have gotten hurt, if not all of them. We have no access to weapons, and no way to escape. The salt blocks are only useful if the target is not moving - and we know that a Walker won't hold still just because we ask it too. I won't say it's one hundred percent possible that someone/everyone would get killed, but the possibility is still really high.

    So, for me, the choice is, to attempt to save Larry and lose everyone in the Meat Locker (including Clementine), or to destroy Larry's brain and guarantee everyone's safety.

  • The first time I played this scene, I thought that Larry's mouth moving was just a graphical error made by Telltale.

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