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[Ep1-3, SPOILERS]Team Lilly vs. Team Kenny (merged threads)

posted by Zeekay980 on - last edited - Viewed by 9.9K users

All of Kenny's decisions are about taking risks. A lot of them unnecessary or not that thought out. "We break the lock and see what they're hiding. If those farmers give us trouble we take em' out" or something like that. Let's not forget rushing to rescue his family without even grabbing a weapon or looking for the other brother. Some are sensible risks like we have to leave our safe haven otherwise we starve. Lilly is all about playing it safe. She doesn't want any new people because they are unknowns and extra mouths to feed. She doesn't want to risk leaving a place they know is safe to try to find someplace with more food that might not exist. When given enough suspicions about the farm, she suggests just leaving without snooping around or getting dinner. She also doesn't want to loot the car because it might not be abandoned and she doesn't want to risk fucking up somebody's life. The only time they are reversed is with Larry for obvious reasons. Just my two cents.

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  • @reno2200 said: I don't mind having Lilly in charge. If you side with her, she really softens up towards you. First and foremost, my Lee is a solid role model to Clem. Lilly puts the group first, whereas Kenny acts on what he thinks is best. It's not about taking risks, it's about taking unnecessary risks. Did checking the barn REALLY achieve anything? Couldn't Kenny have waited a little longer in the meat locker? Why not MAKE A PLAN before running off unarmed after these gun-wielding maniacs who clearly have no qualms with killing the non-undead? Lilly keeps everyone going, Kenny makes a mess, my Lee picks up the pieces.

    I think there will be a divide between Team Lilly and Team Kenny (in-game and on these forums, no doubt) and, unless Carley gives me a convincing argument to the contrary, I'm thinking Lilly is the one I should stick with. I think she's going to be ridiculously loyal to and defensive of the group instead of Kenny only caring about his immediate family.

    If I had to put money on the cause of the big argument in the Episode 3 trailer, I'd say it's something to do with Kenny's family. If there was anyone able to "screw it up for everyone," it'd have to be Kenny or Duck, right?

    I think Kenny's RV breaks down and that causes the blowup with Lilly. Everyone climbing into one vehicle with no second one for a backup and in zombie country is a bad idea if you are stuck in the middle of nowhere. While having a secure location (the Motel) is nice but in an area with no more food is just as bad.

  • @Kaapo said: I don't think Kenny is all about taking risks. Making things happen, sure, but sometimes making things happen is safer than sitting around.

    I'm referring to the meat locker scene. Kenny wants to act preemptively to protect the entire group, while Lilly doesn't care about the risks and continues trying to revive her father (not that I blame her for it). The game seems to put a lot of importance on this particular choice so it's safe to assume it's supposed to reflect Kenny's character quite accurately.

    In any event I've preferred Kenny's approach to things so far. Lee would probably be the best leader now that Larry doesn't give him trouble anymore, but I think that might make the game less interesting.


    Even once you've stopped breathing you have about 5 minutes or so before your body starts to shut down (hence CPR which Lee was trying to do before that idiot decided to step in), so you are looking at 5 mintes at the very least before he would have turned. Kenny acting preemptively did absolutely nothing in terms of favouring the group.

  • Kenny can make a fine ally, but you've got to be with him 100% or not at all. Following the events of episode 2, I'm keen to work on my relationship with Lilly and see if she proves to be more reliable.

    It was good to see a few dialogue options in episode 2 which allowed Lee to cast himself into more of a leadership role within the group. It's still early days and I'm interested to see how that develops.

    Personally, I like to go with my gut on tough decisions and not worry too much about forming and shattering alliances with specific group members. That said, I also prefer to deal with group conflict through reasoning and influence, rather than simply barking orders at people. It's great that both those approaches have been made available throughout the story so far.

  • @Kinky John Fowler said: Even once you've stopped breathing you have about 5 minutes or so before your body starts to shut down (hence CPR which Lee was trying to do before that idiot decided to step in), so you are looking at 5 mintes at the very least before he would have turned. Kenny acting preemptively did absolutely nothing in terms of favouring the group.

    We don't know that's when they turn however, it doesn't seem like 5 minutes for the guy at the beginning who turns though it's not clear when exactly he dies. Look at it from the perspective of the characters, they don't know when the transformation occurs, whether you actually have to be dead to turn (for all they know they could all be slowly turning it just speeds up when you die), and hell I doubt Kenny, Lily or Lee even know themselves how long it takes for the body to shut down.

  • @Kaapo said: Another good option would be to have Lilly and Kenny continue their power struggle, and Lee, being the most influential member of the remaining group, could decrease the authority of one by constantly siding with the other, up to the point where whichever one has been receiving Lee's support (Kenny or Lilly) becomes the undisputed leader of the group, and the other falls into line or even leaves the group entirely.

    Why would you want to do that? Neither of them are people I'd want leading the group, Kenny only cares about his family and Lily would have you all starve because you 'have a routine'. Neither of them have shown any leadership qualities and both of them only really care about their own interests and being undisputed leaders just means they get to run roughshod over the group and force their needs upon the others.

  • @Jazzy said: Why would you want to do that? Neither of them are people I'd want leading the group, Kenny only cares about his family and Lily would have you all starve because you 'have a routine'. Neither of them have shown any leadership qualities and both of them only really care about their own interests and being undisputed leaders just means they get to run roughshod over the group and force their needs upon the others.

    I was talking about good options in terms of gameplay. I just have the feeling if Lee becomes the sole leader of the group, he might become distanced from the others and merely start issuing orders and making decisions instead of the close interaction with most group members which has been going on so far. In reality I wouldn't necessarily want either of them leading the group, but in the game I'd definitely take Kenny as the least of 3 evils. And I could imagine if people start thinking of it as a game, so would other Kenny or, respectively, Lilly supporters.

  • @Lars80 said: Kenny is a coward piece of shit who only cares about his familly.

    First he saved Duck and abandoned Shawn.
    Then he froze when Danny pointed the gun at Lee and didnt do anything. Lilly came in and saved the day.

    Lilly and Carley have proven themself. Kenny? Well, he has a tendency to disappoint when he is really needed.

    I just imagine that after abandoning everyone else to follow Kenny. he will leave me behind. Probably sailing off into the sunset with his boat leaving me with a large horde of walkers back at the docks.

    Kenny does save you against Danny in the barn, if you help him smash Larry's head. If you don't, he's probably just thinking "This guy just let me down big time, I'm not risking my ass to save him."

    TTG could and should have made that decision more balanced, since too many people seem to compare this game to a real life situation, which led the majority of them to try and do CPR on Larry even though in gameplay (i.e. purely logical) terms people would just be happy of his demise and only choosing based on who they want to stay on good terms with, Kenny or Lilly. This means the factors are somewhere between 50% and 75% in favor of siding with Lilly, and after Kenny's actions in the barn the people with a realistic mindset probably decided they don't even want to do another playthrough to see what would follow choosing to side with Kenny.

    Aside from this, siding with Kenny causes Lilly to just stand there and watch as Andy's about to push you into the fence, well knowing Clem is standing right next to her and about to see her protector get electrocuted. That's just as bad as if not worse than Kenny leaving you to fend for yourself against Danny.

  • @Kaapo said: Kenny does save you against Danny in the barn, if you help him smash Larry's head. If you don't, he's probably just thinking "This guy just let me down big time, I'm not risking my ass to save him."

    TTG could and should have made that decision more balanced, since too many people seem to compare this game to a real life situation, which led the majority of them to try and do CPR on Larry even though in gameplay (i.e. purely logical) terms people would just be happy of his demise and only choosing based on who they want to stay on good terms with, Kenny or Lilly. This means the factors are somewhere between 50% and 75% in favor of siding with Lilly, and after Kenny's actions in the barn the people with a realistic mindset probably decided they don't even want to do another playthrough to see what would follow choosing to side with Kenny.

    Aside from this, siding with Kenny causes Lilly to just stand there and watch as Andy's about to push you into the fence, well knowing Clem is standing right next to her and about to see her protector get electrocuted. That's just as bad as if not worse than Kenny leaving you to fend for yourself against Danny.

    Well. It goes against my values to smash a mans head while his daughter is trying to revive him. We could have smashed that head after Larry had turned.
    This is why Kenny isnt fit to be the leader of the group, and i wont follow him. He got social skills of a 10 year old boy with the asberger syndrome.

    1. Kenny sacrificed Shawn to save his own skin.
    2. He trashed Larry's head before he had turned.
    3. And he failed to help Lee in the barn.

    The only people Kenny is willing to help out when shit hits the fan is his own familly. Everyone else is an expendable asset.

    Now i am curious to see how Lilly turns out without her father in Ep3. I am guessing she leaves early on and never return.

  • its crazy to say 'oh we'll kill him after he turns' dude is what? 6'4 3000lbs?
    a little scrawny walker girl can take a man out- how do you think they can escape him in that tiny meat locker? All that would have to happen is him open his eyes, reach out and bite- then its 2 down 3 to go.

    Kenny acted too fast. It would have taken 20-30 more seconds to talk to Lily to say her goodbyes or at least try to explain to her what's going to happen if we dont act- one way or the other.

    I love how he likes to pull you off to the side and talk about all the shit you two are going to get into over HIS actions. 1st replay I tried to downplay and console him...every playthrough since I berate this shit out of him.
    Kenny acts like he's the president and the First Family must survive over all others no matter the cost. Im sure everyone is THINKING the same but like they say, actions speak louder than words and his actions are saying 'I dont care about a goddamn person on this Earth but my family'. People will start to pick up on that real fast

  • @Jazzy said: We don't know that's when they turn however, it doesn't seem like 5 minutes for the guy at the beginning who turns though it's not clear when exactly he dies. Look at it from the perspective of the characters, they don't know when the transformation occurs, whether you actually have to be dead to turn (for all they know they could all be slowly turning it just speeds up when you die), and hell I doubt Kenny, Lily or Lee even know themselves how long it takes for the body to shut down.

    This was my problem with anyone who wants to delay the whole situation. Exactly when does the virus know that someone has "died", and then take over? What if it happens at the moment someone is clinically dead (the moment that the heart and brain stop working to keep the body alive)? If that IS the case, then Larry was about to turn at any moment, and Lee and Lilly were stupidly sitting right next to him, waiting to get the "chomp".

    Even one of the devs who was on the "Larry was Alive?" thread confirmed that they INTENDED the "lip movement" to be a questioning moment - was Larry being revived, or was he about to turn into a Walker? Ultimately they SAID that the CPR was working, but we couldn't have known that in the moment.

    Trying to save Larry is taking a HUGE risk with very little payoff. This is probably the one time within the game that Kenny is not willing to gamble his life. You can bet the tables would have been turned had it been Katjaa lying there - with Kenny begging you to save her and Lily being the proponent to smash her head in.

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