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Meat Locker Dilemma

posted by Gregory2012 on - last edited - Viewed by 4.7K users

I, like most players, initially sided with Lilly in trying to resuscitate Larry. In retrospect, I may have made the wrong call.

Initially, I understood Kenny’s concern about zombie Larry, but back at the motor inn, the injured body brought in did not turn undead until several minutes later. I thought I had time to save Larry. If I couldn’t save him in say, two minutes, then I would advocate using the salt lick to crush his skull, but Kenny made a rushed judgment.

However, I may have been wrong. The injured body was being treated by Katjaa. She could have prolonged the person’s life. So instead of minutes of trying to resuscitate Larry, I could have had only seconds.

I thought if Larry turned zombie that we would notice, but when Katjaa was attacked, she didn’t say afterward that the skin around his eyeballs suddenly darkened, so he looked undead. The injured body became undead without Katjaa noticing despite her close examination of him.

Assume for the sake of argument, that the injured body, was untreated by Katjaa, and became undead in two minutes.

Does that mean everyone becomes undead in two minutes? Not necessarily. That could be the minimum time or maximum time for the dead-to-undead process to occur. You don’t know. With that uncertainty, do you risk trying to resuscitate Larry? I reluctantly conclude Kenny made the right decision.

I could still be wrong because I am overlooking an important factor. If so, tell me.

Two unrelated points:

1. I will play the campaign with my initial decision of siding with Lilly.

2. Kenny is hard to please. I redid Episode 1 and Episode 2 to closer ally myself with Kenny, except for the meat locker dilemma. I helped rescue Duck, sided with Kenny in the pharmacy, gave Duck a snack, supported Kenny’s boat plan, fed both Duck and Kenny at the motor inn, and mostly agreed with him on everything else, except the argument about Lilly being a dictator (that was exaggerated and I think she was right about being called a Nazi when survival became tougher). When walking to the abandoned car, I gave him the gentlest response: he fractured the group. Despite my near constant agreement with him, in the Long Road Ahead preview, he says I never listened to him. I don’t hate Kenny, but if all my prior support isn’t reciprocated in Episode 3, I may dump him as an ally.

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  • I sided with Kenny. Afterwards, I felt sick at all that transpired because of that choice. I regretted it. At the same time, I would honestly make the decision again. It was a hard choice, it was the correct choice for survival with the information I had. And there was the potential I murdered someone with a chance for life. That choice will linger. It will haunt me (Lee). And it should haunt him/me. It'll also haunt Kenny and he was 100% behind it. Kenny will always hate himself. He even keeps looking to Katjaa to see if she still loves what he's becoming. (After the Duck/Shawn choice, her look causes him to offer a ride to Macon. Also, in the store after he talks to you about the choice, there is a long glance between he and her. She knows what he's wrestling with and he is relieved to know she hasn't turned her back on him or judged him for his choices.)

    The rationalization and consolation he seeks from Lee for his decisions will always just be something that keeps him from putting a bullet in his own brain (second to a living family.) In a world where the apocalypse ended and normalcy returned, I can see Kenny becoming either a drunk or killing himself because his family is now safe and don't directly need him. I honestly do.

    Why do I think Kenny regrets despite all his bark that he's making the right decisions?

    He sincerely apologizes to Lilly for what he "is about to do" so to speak, before he does the act. Some people would say sorry isn't enough, and it won't be to Lilly... But he apologized before, not after, and his tone of voice was very sincere to me. The look on his face after he does it, he seems to be shocked even at himself from his own actions. HE says/does these things whether you side with him or not the entire game, which means this is the true him. There's an inner battle in him, there, that is raging just as much in him as ourselves/Lee. He's far more complex a character than Lilly, although emotionally, I totally get her thoughts processes about the decision and for leaving me to die afterward on the fence. I wish the next episode would take that into account, with perhaps a deepening of her character as she considers herself and what she now knows to be capable of; cold blooded vengeance. Larry, apparently, never rethinks his humanity after leaving me to die, totally rationalizing/absorbing it and completely unapologetic. In epi 3, She should be shocked at her own feelings about leaving him to die if she were a complex enough character. Unfortunately, following this forum has told me about the show/comic book series and I worry she'll be going poof soon.

  • @YamiRaziel said: That's not true. Most people did try to save Larry and thought he could still be saved. Accept it, it's most you that believed that :P

    I believe the sentiment is that most people believe that you should try to save Larry, even if he was past the point of no return. That is much different from believing that he was alive ,or that he definitely would be after you jumped in to help.

    As far as the "virus" debate goes, I think it stems from the fact that most people believed that the "bite" is what caused you to turn - and what is mostly likely to be transferred from saliva to blood? A virus. People then just naturally assume that it must still be a virus, but one that lies dormant in us, as opposed to only being a blood-borne pathogen.

    The truth is that we don't know what causes us to become Walkers, and Ben's shocking revelation is yet further proof of the fact that no one really knows. Better then to err on the side of caution, then to find yourself mentally unprepared for a situation when it goes from bad to worse (ie, the person you THOUGHT was dead now comes back).

  • @phoray said: I sided with Kenny. Afterwards, I felt sick at all that transpired because of that choice. I regretted it. At the same time, I would honestly make the decision again. It was a hard choice, it was the correct choice for survival with the information I had. And there was the potential I murdered someone with a chance for life. That choice will linger. It will haunt me (Lee). And it should haunt him/me. It'll also haunt Kenny and he was 100% behind it. Kenny will always hate himself. He even keeps looking to Katjaa to see if she still loves what he's becoming. (After the Duck/Shawn choice, her look causes him to offer a ride to Macon. Also, in the store after he talks to you about the choice, there is a long glance between he and her. She knows what he's wrestling with and he is relieved to know she hasn't turned her back on him or judged him for his choices.)

    The rationalization and consolation he seeks from Lee for his decisions will always just be something that keeps him from putting a bullet in his own brain (second to a living family.) In a world where the apocalypse ended and normalcy returned, I can see Kenny becoming either a drunk or killing himself because his family is now safe and don't directly need him. I honestly do.

    Why do I think Kenny regrets despite all his bark that he's making the right decisions?

    He sincerely apologizes to Lilly for what he "is about to do" so to speak, before he does the act. Some people would say sorry isn't enough, and it won't be to Lilly... But he apologized before, not after, and his tone of voice was very sincere to me. The look on his face after he does it, he seems to be shocked even at himself from his own actions. HE says/does these things whether you side with him or not the entire game, which means this is the true him. There's an inner battle in him, there, that is raging just as much in him as ourselves/Lee. He's far more complex a character than Lilly, although emotionally, I totally get her thoughts processes about the decision and for leaving me to die afterward on the fence. I wish the next episode would take that into account, with perhaps a deepening of her character as she considers herself and what she now knows to be capable of; cold blooded vengeance. Larry, apparently, never rethinks his humanity after leaving me to die, totally rationalizing/absorbing it and completely unapologetic. In epi 3, She should be shocked at her own feelings about leaving him to die if she were a complex enough character. Unfortunately, following this forum has told me about the show/comic book series and I worry she'll be going poof soon.

    I got that impression from him, as well. (I also sided with him in the meat locker). I do believe that it was the morally wrong choice to make - but I try to remember that we are living in the zombie apocalypse, and the knowledge that ALL of the dead come back (even if it's not a confirmed fact) is pretty much a "game changer". If this piece of evidence IS true, we are going to have to reevaluate methods and standards for life-saving procedures and for the handling of the recently deceased. (An example might be putting a limit on CPR attempts, instead of performing it until a doctor gives confirmation of death. Another example will be "abandoning" funeral practices that aim to keep the body intact).

    We feel guilt because as of now, these are not accepted cultural practices. Sometimes survival demands, though, that culture change and adapt.

  • @Sisterofshane said: As far as the "virus" debate goes, I think it stems from the fact that most people believed that the "bite" is what caused you to turn - and what is mostly likely to be transferred from saliva to blood?

    Pathogenic bacteria can be transmitted through saliva.

  • @Sisterofshane said: If this piece of evidence IS true, we are going to have to reevaluate methods and standards for life-saving procedures and for the handling of the recently deceased. (An example might be putting a limit on CPR attempts, instead of performing it until a doctor gives confirmation of death. Another example will be "abandoning" funeral practices that aim to keep the body intact).

    I was thinking the human race could live on easily enough, it shouldn't effect procreation. Our lifespans would decrease quite a lot, because the minute someone looked iffy, their head has got to get cut off.

    Also.... No one was thinking of cross contamination, but Lee whacked a zombies head off with that axe. IT's got zombie gook all over it, then Lee hacked a man's leg off. That right there was as bad as a zombie biting him.

    Doesn't explain Travis, though.

  • There have been two examples of pregnancy in the comics after the end. And in every medium, cross-contamination has been ignored.

  • @phoray said: I was thinking the human race could live on easily enough, it shouldn't effect procreation. Our lifespans would decrease quite a lot, because the minute someone looked iffy, their head has got to get cut off.

    Also.... No one was thinking of cross contamination, but Lee whacked a zombies head off with that axe. IT's got zombie gook all over it, then Lee hacked a man's leg off. That right there was as bad as a zombie biting him.

    Doesn't explain Travis, though.

    I wasn't talking about pregnancy or whether it was safe, but that we're going to have to take a staunch position in order to survive as a species (pregnancy doesn't matter if the adult birthing population dies out). If that means that CPR is only attempted for a set amount of time in order to minimize the risk to the rescuer, than so be it. If it means that time honored burial practices need to be done away with, so be it. It's probably a few of these cultural practices that have made the situation as bad as it was (imagining everyone is running around trying to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, and end up getting themselves killed, which in turn only makes MORE walkers).

    That doesn't mean that we should give up EVERYTHING in the name of survival. That would be the St. John's and the Bandits. They leave NO hope for the future, they just live day to day, doing whatever they need to make sure that they live for another hour.

  • This might be beside what you guys are talking about, but have you read the "Fear The Hunters" arc of the comic?

  • in the Series they say that a Transformation takes from 2 minutes up to a couple of hours (if i recal correctly its over 20h in the longest known case)

    so they could have gambled on that... and kill him when he transformed.

  • An excerpt from my post on "Making tough decisions - Moral Codes?" thread.

    DO NOT KILL YOUR OWN! This is something my Lee's only added after the events on the Dairy Farm... He tried to save Larry, a man he thinks the group would be better off without, because of it. And I was quick enough to see Larry start to come back to us, just before Kenny dropped the salt lick, firmly planting this idea in his mind.

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