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Limited Choices discussion (merged threads)

posted by ADavidson on - last edited - Viewed by 6.6K users

I was a bit disappointed with the story choices. Reminded me of LA Noir, where most game choices are superficial. If you pick Shawn he still dies the same. Even if the other chosen character died(Doug or Carlie), the other said the same things. And no matter what I said nothing changed story points, like Larry shoving you down even if you side with him. Oh and with Glenn, if you hand the girl the gun he says how can you let people give up but if you refuse he says how can you deny someone's choice! The character's in the game should have the same convictions no matter what you choose, this is unacceptable character development.

Supposedly the choices of Episode 1 greatly affect how everyone views you though... I sure hope the following episodes prove more impressive with the choices, and I realllllly hope it branches out and expands more. For a 2hr game it should have a lot more possibilities.

I know it's only a $5 game, just please don't let me down.

Otherwise, the story itself was awesome, the gameplay is really good and the art style is incredible. Still the best TT game to date! Keep it up guys!

641 Comments - Linear Discussion: Classic Style
  • I am significantly disappointed in the artificial choices the game offers.

    The way it's being marketed, It really sounds like your choices should impact the story but it doesn't at all. Everyone plays the exact same story, the only difference is the way the characters act.

    Look at some of this marketing and tell me if I'm wrong.

    KZdlKZbD

    Remember this screen?
    KZaI

    Don't get me wrong, I like the game. It's a great adventure game, and this is what telltale excels at. It's just linear and the marketing is misleading. I had much higher hopes, and to be honest I think TTG did too. There are a few things I noticed that seem to imply a more meaningful decision. For example, what was the purpose of having the dialogue options available to tell the St.Johns "Nobody fucks with our group" or "We have enough people to defend ourselves" if not some device to discourage them from feeding Mark to you?

    I expected the game to be like other "interactive dramas" For example, in "Heavy Rain" there is a scene where you run away from the police, and you can get shot, arrested, brought back to the station, and interrogated. You can also escape and skip the police station arc of the story. I was expecting decisions in TWD to be more along the lines of

    -Go into Clem's house / Go out the gate and keep looking for help
    -Help Larry get meds / Let the fucker die
    -Go to the Greene farm / Continue on your own
    -Fail to save Clem from walkers --> Instant autosave, Clem permanently dead
    -Go upstairs in St.John house to find Mark / Wash hands and eat dinner
    -Approach Brenda to rescue Katjaa / Walk away and let her fend for herself

    etc, you know, drastic, lasting decisions. They said they want you to think first and think "what have I done" afterward; No "right" decisions etc... So far that hasn't been the case at all.

    I know there are 3 episodes left in the season, so I'll keep a hopeful mind, but I am very very confidant there will only be one narrative, and that disappoints me. Someone mentioned the possibility of a Woodbury with Lilly / Boat with Kenny decision in ep.3 and while I am in love with that idea or any other idea that would create a split narrative, We probably won't see it.

    And the excuse that "To write multiple narratives would be like writing multiple games, telltale can't do all that for 5 bucks a game, one month per episode isnt enough to do that" etc -- At the release of episode 1, I read TTG would be working simultaneously on ALL the episodes throughout the release period, and that they were all in late phases, so it's not like they're pushing out entire games within a 1-month (lol more like 2-month) agenda.

    I'll still play TellTale Games because they are great adventures, but TTG needs to be really careful with their marketing (or hire new marketing people for fucks sake) because so far they have set two really high bars for themselves and failed to meet either of them. (tailored story and monthly releases)

    /2cents

  • @bghjkl said: I am significantly disappointed in the artificial choices the game offers.

    The way it's being marketed, It really sounds like your choices should impact the story but it doesn't at all. Everyone plays the exact same story, the only difference is the way the characters act.

    Look at some of this marketing and tell me if I'm wrong.

    KZdlKZbD

    Remember this screen?
    KZaI

    Don't get me wrong, I like the game. It's a great adventure game, and this is what telltale excels at. It's just linear and the marketing is misleading. I had much higher hopes, and to be honest I think TTG did too. There are a few things I noticed that seem to imply a more meaningful decision. For example, what was the purpose of having the dialogue options available to tell the St.Johns "Nobody fucks with our group" or "We have enough people to defend ourselves" if not some device to discourage them from feeding Mark to you?

    I expected the game to be like other "interactive dramas" For example, in "Heavy Rain" there is a scene where you run away from the police, and you can get shot, arrested, brought back to the station, and interrogated. You can also escape and skip the police station arc of the story. I was expecting decisions in TWD to be more along the lines of

    -Go into Clem's house / Go out the gate and keep looking for help
    -Help Larry get meds / Let the fucker die
    -Go to the Greene farm / Continue on your own
    -Fail to save Clem from walkers --> Instant autosave, Clem permanently dead
    -Go upstairs in St.John house to find Mark / Wash hands and eat dinner
    -Approach Brenda to rescue Katjaa / Walk away and let her fend for herself

    etc, you know, drastic, lasting decisions. They said they want you to think first and think "what have I done" afterward; No "right" decisions etc... So far that hasn't been the case at all.

    I know there are 3 episodes left in the season, so I'll keep a hopeful mind, but I am very very confidant there will only be one narrative, and that disappoints me. Someone mentioned the possibility of a Woodbury with Lilly / Boat with Kenny decision in ep.3 and while I am in love with that idea or any other idea that would create a split narrative, We probably won't see it.

    And the excuse that "To write multiple narratives would be like writing multiple games, telltale can't do all that for 5 bucks a game, one month per episode isnt enough to do that" etc -- At the release of episode 1, I read TTG would be working simultaneously on ALL the episodes throughout the release period, and that they were all in late phases, so it's not like they're pushing out entire games within a 1-month (lol more like 2-month) agenda.

    I'll still play TellTale Games because they are great adventures, but TTG needs to be really careful with their marketing (or hire new marketing people for fucks sake) because so far they have set two really high bars for themselves and failed to meet either of them. (tailored story and monthly releases)

    /2cents

    I am glad you agree with me.

    TTG is a great company but, as it stands now, TWD hasn't really delivered in the sense of branching storylines. The only real differences are whether you saved Carley or Doug, or if you are siding with Lily or Kenny (or remaining neutral altogether). I hope that the first two episodes are setting up for things to come (going with Kenny, going with Lilly, having to go on your own because neither trust you, dealing with the differences between Doug and Carley) but past promises of branching storylines have often gone unfulfilled.

    I'm less annoyed by sporadic updates. I'd accept something 3 months late if it delivered.

  • @Galdis said: I am glad you agree with me.

    TTG is a great company but, as it stands now, TWD hasn't really delivered in the sense of branching storylines. The only real differences are whether you saved Carley or Doug, or if you are siding with Lily or Kenny (or remaining neutral altogether). I hope that the first two episodes are setting up for things to come (going with Kenny, going with Lilly, having to go on your own because neither trust you, dealing with the differences between Doug and Carley) but past promises of branching storylines have often gone unfulfilled.

    I'm less annoyed by sporadic updates. I'd accept something 3 months late if it delivered.

    Even the doug/carley choice doesn't really matter. They serve the exact same role in episode 2. (mouth to feed or not feed / save you at the end). Dougs alarm is cool but it doesnt mean, do, or affect anything at all

  • how does anyone not see by picking a side lilly or kenny you are CHANGING the game ??

    you also have to choose to save clem and treat her right

    you choose carly or doug that also changing the game ??

    really people ?

    so IF ttg had made these choices matter more and given us different outcomes what would happen ? well for one ep2 would still be 'coming soon'

    also you people seem to be forgetting one thing and that is we are on ep2 waiting for ep3 two episodes in ? really ? your expecting too much from 2 episodes..

    ep3 will most likely have some big change being the mid point of the game...

    so lilly leaves can lee go with her ? does kenny leave lee behind who knows..we will see

    bottom line imo is ttg have a limit on what they can do in the time they have so they have to rail road us somehow other wise the game would take longer...

  • @Milosuperspesh said: how does anyone not see by picking a side lilly or kenny you are CHANGING the game ??


    The only thing it's changed so far is dialogue and who shoots (or chooses not to shoot) the st. john at the end. Nothing about the story
    @Milosuperspesh said:
    you also have to choose to save clem and treat her right

    So far it hasn't mattered how you treat Clem. The game progresses exactly the same whether you cater to her every need or are a total dick. Minor dialouge changes.
    @Milosuperspesh said:
    you choose carly or doug that also changing the game ??

    "the doug/carley choice doesn't really matter. They serve the exact same role in episode 2. (mouth to feed or not feed / save you at the end). Dougs alarm is cool but it doesnt mean, do, or affect anything at all"
    @Milosuperspesh said:
    really people ?

    so IF ttg had made these choices matter more and given us different outcomes what would happen ? well for one ep2 would still be 'coming soon'

    I'll reiterate, They don't make entire episodes in a 1-month agenda.
    @Milosuperspesh said:
    also you people seem to be forgetting one thing and that is we are on ep2 waiting for ep3 two episodes in ? really ? your expecting too much from 2 episodes..

    ep3 will most likely have some big change being the mid point of the game...

    so lilly leaves can lee go with her ? does kenny leave lee behind who knows..we will see

    Indeed we will.

  • @bghjkl said:
    I'll reiterate, They don't make entire episodes in a 1-month agenda.

    and ? i said it would take longer ? hence more delays ?

  • "Every decision and action can result in the entire story of the game changing around you." Okay so clearly TTG overshot the mark with this statement, but who cares? The game is still incredibly good, and it's not the first time a company has oversold their product in advertising.

    So people want their character's choices to have significant consequences, for there to be multiple paths. I'm guessing you want the plot to branch depending on what Lee chooses to have for breakfast as well... I'm getting a sense of gamer entitlement here. Think about the amount of time it would take to have multiple alternate plots of equal quality that last the duration of the 5 chapters, that only a percentage of players would experience, as opposed to just one. And as for these proposals:

    -Go into Clem's house / Go out the gate and keep looking for help
    - How the hell are you supposed to play the game if Clementine isn't in it? Isn't she kinda important?
    -Help Larry get meds / Let the fucker die
    -Hmm well if you didn't get the pills then you would never have set the alarm off, then
    the walkers would never come, and Doug/Carley wouldn't die...so the game would just
    be dull...
    -Go to the Greene farm / Continue on your own
    -Then maybe you'd never meet Kenny or end up in Macon and meet the group, then
    you'd have a completely different game
    -Fail to save Clem from walkers --> Instant autosave, Clem permanently dead
    Then the player would feel like shit for the rest of the series...not to mention the loss
    of a central character and interrelationship
    -Go upstairs in St.John house to find Mark / Wash hands and eat dinner
    Why wouldn't you go snooping? Don't you have any curiosity as to why they're not letting you see Mark?
    -Approach Brenda to rescue Katjaa / Walk away and let her fend for herself
    Fair enough lol, that's pretty reasonable, if a little dickish.

    I also believe there should be an option not to unlock the door in the barn, because realistically as guests they're kinda crossing the line, but for the most part limited choices is no big deal for what you're getting.

  • @EXIE said:
    -Go into Clem's house / Go out the gate and keep looking for help
    - How the hell are you supposed to play the game if Clementine isn't in it? Isn't she kinda important?


    Is she? I would play the game differently without her to look after. Bam! Rash decision!
    @EXIE said:
    -Help Larry get meds / Let the fucker die
    -Hmm well if you didn't get the pills then you would never have set the alarm off, then
    the walkers would never come, and Doug/Carley wouldn't die...so the game would just
    be dull...
    It wouldn't "be dull", It'd be a separate narrative. More shit can happen at the pharmacy. It could get overrun a different way, Bandits could come trying to loot the Oxycodone, anything.
    @EXIE said:
    -Go to the Greene farm / Continue on your own
    -Then maybe you'd never meet Kenny or end up in Macon and meet the group, then
    you'd have a completely different game
    Exactly!
    @EXIE said:
    -Fail to save Clem from walkers --> Instant autosave, Clem permanently dead
    Then the player would feel like shit for the rest of the series...
    This is what they were going for!
    @EXIE said:
    -Go upstairs in St.John house to find Mark / Wash hands and eat dinner
    Why wouldn't you go snooping? Don't you have any curiosity as to why they're not letting you see Mark?
    Maybe I think it's more important to be a gracious guest like everyone else, It could save you from being attacked
    @EXIE said:
    -Approach Brenda to rescue Katjaa / Walk away and let her fend for herself
    Fair enough lol, that's pretty reasonable, if a little dickish.
    Please, She has like 5 opportunities to grab Brenda's gun while she points it at Lee. She deserved to die in that scene
    @EXIE said:
    I also believe there should be an option not to unlock the door in the barn, because realistically as guests they're kinda crossing the line,
    but for the most part limited choices is no big deal for what you're getting.
    That's the point I was making about the dinner scene, but you're right. I'm satisfied with what I got. Just a lot of shortcomings.

  • Some options and going completely off the rails isn't really feasible from either a technical standpoint or a logical one. For example, simply remaining at the pharmacy; you'd be screwed. The group had one axe and one handgun to defend themselves with. Likewise for trying to continue on your own/bypassing Hershel's, due to Lee having a leg wound with a decent potential for infection. Dying doesn't exactly advance the narrative. :p

    That said, the decision points we do get should have had a bigger impact.

    The one that comes to mind most for me; whether to save Shawn/Duck. I've said it before, I actually would've preferred it if they both ended up dead if you opted to save Shawn, since then the decision does have something resembling an actual consequence that impacts future events. The drug store drama? Gone, or atleast drastically different.

    Likewise for the drug store drama itself, if you agree to chuck out Duck, it should actually go forward on that point.

    Incidentally, Duck avoids death way too often for me to think it's just a coincidence. I'm of the opinion that the whole reason he doesn't actually die is because he's all the nightmarish horror and entropy of the apocalypse itself made manifest. :p It would explain why every decision to let the kid die gets nullified...

    Likewise for the Larry decision in the meat locker, hell, either he turns or you actually save him, but the time spent on saving the old guy results in Kenny's wife or kid ending up hurt/dead because you weren't around to help them.

    Little things like that would also help with the apparent multiple personality disorder that a character like Kenny suffers from, where some of these decisions would logically be genuine points of no return in how he views you or would go out of his way for you. Seriously, trying to save an elderly man? Unforgiveable! Agreeing to throw his kid out, thereby condemning him to be eaten alive by the living-impaired? Oh, well, you're an ass, but he'll still come back for you.

  • bghjkl, treating Clem right or wrong really does affect how other characters view you. I would say this does cause a big shift in gameplay; then again I haven't done a playthrough where I do all the wrong things. While you are right - regardless of how you treat her, the game progresses exactly the same - she still does serve a purpose in terms of characterization and plot.

    Rommel makes a good point - certain things just make sense out of necessity, like sticking with a group while you have a leg wound.

    It makes perfect sense to investigate Clem's house because you (Lee) have no idea what's going on. Seeing as how you are technically an escaped convict, it makes sense to approach something small - one family - to keep a low profile rather than to walk in the middle of a road with a leg wound.

    I feel that stopping at the Greene farm was a necessity due to the leg wound. I disagree with bghjkl; if I had a leg wound like that, I'd let it rest.

    I agree that we should have gotten a choice on helping or not helping Larry and what to do at the pharmacy. Even if all it meant was him dying a lot sooner than Episode 2, it still would have made a serious impact on the plot and the other characters. Although, considering that the Meat Locker served the same purpose, this is debatable. The group would have eventually left the pharmacy because it was not a very defensible position and I agree that, with one an axe and one pistol, it would have been abandoned eventually.

    While Clementine is indeed a central character, it would drastically change the narrative, how characters view Lee, and how Lee views himself if he failed to save her. Then again, the mini-games aren't really that challenging and saving her isn't that hard. Indeed, this would be a chance to change the narrative in the ways that TTG promised.

    One of the things that pissed me off was how you are forced to investigate the farm. I agreed with Lilly - I wanted to just GTFO. I probably would have done something when they refused to hand over Mark - which is probably why they shoehorned you into following Kenny anyway - but again, this is another way to change the narrative and it would not have been that hard to do. Either way you'd figure it out due to Mark's disappearance, but knowing you ate him or not is prime material and I'm shocked TTG didn't use that.

    Only a real dick would abandon Katjaa, in my opinion, but I agree that the option should have probably been there. I imagine some people would be more concerned with hunting down the brothers, who are far more dangerous. If this came at the expense of Katjaa's life, the impact on the story kind of explains itself.

    Many decisions are purely moral and really only affect how the other characters view you: leaving David, stealing food, siding with this person or that person, and I don't care that they don't have a dramatic impact on the plot because they're not supposed to. Yet, where you'd imagine certain decisions would be different, they are not - so far, where you think your decisions should matter, they really don't because nearly the exact same thing happens regardless of what you do.

    Again, I love the game and I'm gonna keep playing it, but TTG should either change their marketing message or fulfill their marketing promises. You can't have your cake and eat it, too if you don't make the cake you want to have and eat. I really want them to live up to their promises because it would make a unique experience and give them a lot of renown to succeed where so many others have failed. Keep in mind: I don't think the others failed because it was too hard, I think they failed because they lacked ambition and, sadly and more often, due to budget restraints and deadlines. I have no idea what the budget or deadline is for TTG, but they should at least be honest with us if they're going to give us something linear.

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