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[Spoilers] He caused EVERYTHING

posted by CocaColin on - last edited - Viewed by 1.2K users

And by 'he', I mean Ben. If you think about it, him stealing the meds caused the bandits to attack the Inn, which attracted the Walkers, which happened to bite Duck. Duck's bite had caused Katjaa to suicide as she didn't want to live with her son dying. On top of that, Lilly shot Carley/Doug because of the traitor in the group. She shot Carley, because Carley stood up for Ben, where as Doug took the bullet for Ben. That had then caused Lilly to be abandoned. So again, who is to blame? Ben. It would have been best off if we kicked his ass out of the group in Episode 2, before he officially joined...because of one single person, we lost four/five people.

Lilly, Carley/Doug, Katjaa, and Duck. :(

Screw Ben >_

36 Comments - Linear Discussion: Classic Style
  • @Overwatch said: Honestly, it wasn't Bens fault that the Inn got overrun. That was on Lee.

    Explain the logic in that.

    First, explain how a person could be at fault for something they had no intention of doing and had no reasonable expectation of the outcome.

    Second, you think if there was a justice system still in place (jail, court, etc), he should be convicted and held accountable for all the deaths? If you think Lee is to blame, then it's the just action to take and you have to say yes.

    How could Lee have possible known what would happen if he took the bag to show Lilly?

    Lee didn't do anything. He didn't have any intent to put himself or any others in danger. In fact, he was trying to do the opposite.

    You have a gang of murders and someone in your group working with them and that's the only people you can blame.

    If people want to blame the victim then fine. I just think it's nonsensical and a complete injustice.

  • @Red Panda said: You two ever heard of infinite regression? You can keep going back in the chain of events, finding someone to blame.

    Actually, you don't have to go that far back. Lee taking the meds is the immediate cause for the attack. He may have had good reasons for taking them, but that doesn't change the fact that if the bandits had gotten their supplies, it wouldn't have happened.

    @Red Panda said: But what was Bens fault, was Carly/Doug getting shot. If he hadn't have been such a pussy and just fessed up, Carly would still be alive.

    I don't see how you can blame that one on anyone other than Lilly. She was completely unhinged. Ben may not have confessed, but Lilly was the one who chose to pull the trigger for no good reason. And even if he had confessed at the time, then Lilly just would have shot him instead. But it would still be on Lilly for acting like a total psychopath.

  • @magodesky said: Actually, you don't have to go that far back. Lee taking the meds is the immediate cause for the attack. He may have had good reasons for taking them, but that doesn't change the fact that if the bandits had gotten their supplies, it wouldn't have happened.

    I don't see how you can blame that one on anyone other than Lilly. She was completely unhinged. Ben may not have confessed, but Lilly was the one who chose to pull the trigger for no good reason. And even if he had confessed at the time, then Lilly just would have shot him instead. But it would still be on Lilly for acting like a total psychopath.

    All true points.

    @magodesky said:
    First, explain how a person could be at fault for something they had no intention of doing and had no reasonable expectation of the outcome.

    Just because someone doesn't know about the consequences of their actions, doesn't make it not their fault for the consequences happening. If I took 30 bucks off the ground and then someone tells me that it's their money. Not sure if they are being honest. I say "I don't believe you". We end up in a big fight and both having to go to the hospital. It would be my fault for picking up the 30 bucks in the first place. The consequences of my actions was because I picked up that 30 bucks.

  • So, first you say this...

    @Christoaster said: I am blaming Lee for the bandits taking over the Motor Inn at that time.... If Lee didn't take that package, the bandits wouldn't havn't attacked at THAT time.

    And then this...

    To avoid the whole situation, Ben should have been honest and at least tell Lee in private before heading in the RV. If Ben had told Lee and explained why he did so, things wouldn't have been so bad.

    I guess as a whole It's Ben's fault.

    You're being inconsistent.

    Honestly, I don't think anybody is more at fault then the bandits. They're just unscrupulous criminals.

    Ben worked with them and that's a problem. He's a victim as well so his role in it all is complicated.

    Like I said before, people can go back and blame any number of events and people. It just gets silly after a point.

    In the end, the bandits are the ultimate culprits and Ben was an accomplice. If anybody would be convicted of any crime, it would be the bandits and maybe Ben.

  • Sorry I'm not agreeing it was Lees fault. If Ben hadn't made the deal. There would be no reason for Lily to send Lee for the missing supplies. Ben invited those murderers to come down upon the Inn by them believing he was not honoring the deal. A deal Lily nor Lee knew anything about.

    Ben could have approached this situation so differently. He could have came to the group directly after his confrontation with the Bandits and worked out an alternative plan. Instead he stayed quiet, secretive and deceptive then he compounded his lies.

    Ben caused death on both sides. The Bandits and the Group. I'll dump him the first chance I get.

  • @magodesky said: Actually, you don't have to go that far back. Lee taking the meds is the immediate cause for the attack. He may have had good reasons for taking them, but that doesn't change the fact that if the bandits had gotten their supplies, it wouldn't have happened.

    That doesn't make any sense. Lee taking the meds wasn't the cause. The bandits being murderous thieves is the cause.

    And you, or anybody else, can't say what they would have or wouldn't have done. All you can do is assume they would be pleased and not attack but you don't know that. They could have decided they want more supplies and attack anyway.

    Like I said, the only cause was the bandits being amoral.

  • @Red Panda said: So, first you say this...

    And then this...

    You're being inconsistent.

    Honestly, I don't think anybody is more at fault then the bandits. They're just unscrupulous criminals.

    Ben worked with them and that's a problem. He's a victim as well so his role in it all is complicated.

    Like I said before, people can go back and blame any number of events and people. It just gets silly after a point.

    In the end, the bandits are the ultimate culprits and Ben was an accomplice. If anybody would be convicted of any crime, it would be the bandits and maybe Ben.

    How the hell am I being inconsistent? I'm blaming Lee for the immediate attacking of the Bandits at the moment it happened. Yet, IF Ben told Lee about the deal with the bandits things would have went better and it's his fault for not saying anything which caused the whole mess. I am simply laying out both situations. It's Ben's fault for not saying anything about the deal. Since Lee didn't know about the deal since Ben didn't say anything about it. Lee went to go investigate. If lee hadn't investigated and found the package at the moment he did the bandits wouldn't have raided the camp at that time.

  • @Red Panda said: That doesn't make any sense. Lee taking the meds wasn't the cause. The bandits being murderous thieves is the cause.

    And you, or anybody else, can't say what they would have or wouldn't have done. All you can do is assume they would be pleased and not attack but you don't know that. They could have decided they want more supplies and attack anyway.

    Like I said, the only cause was the bandits being amoral.

    Do you not notice that the bandits came RIGHT AFTER Lee took the package? It's common sense. It would be far too much of a coincidence for it to happen right after Lee took the package.

  • @Christoaster said: Do you not notice that the bandits came RIGHT AFTER Lee took the package? It's common sense. It would be far too much of a coincidence for it to happen right after Lee took the package.

    You're talking about a guy that killed someone on his team on a whim. (ep 2.)

    Common sense or rationality doesn't apply.

  • @Christoaster said: How the hell am I being inconsistent?

    B/c your views aren't consistent with what's been observed.

    Look, whoever you think should go to jail is to blame. Do you think that's Lee?

    And you don't know if the meds were the pushing point. They are killers. The guy Lee is tasked with distracting while Lilly gets in position killed one of his own on a whim. He's obviously unstable. You can't say Lee's actions were the cause anymore than you could accurately predict an alternative future.

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