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Limited Choices discussion (merged threads)

posted by ADavidson on - last edited - Viewed by 10.3K users

I was a bit disappointed with the story choices. Reminded me of LA Noir, where most game choices are superficial. If you pick Shawn he still dies the same. Even if the other chosen character died(Doug or Carlie), the other said the same things. And no matter what I said nothing changed story points, like Larry shoving you down even if you side with him. Oh and with Glenn, if you hand the girl the gun he says how can you let people give up but if you refuse he says how can you deny someone's choice! The character's in the game should have the same convictions no matter what you choose, this is unacceptable character development.

Supposedly the choices of Episode 1 greatly affect how everyone views you though... I sure hope the following episodes prove more impressive with the choices, and I realllllly hope it branches out and expands more. For a 2hr game it should have a lot more possibilities.

I know it's only a $5 game, just please don't let me down.

Otherwise, the story itself was awesome, the gameplay is really good and the art style is incredible. Still the best TT game to date! Keep it up guys!

641 Comments - Linear Discussion: Classic Style
  • @8Bit_System said: The biggest problem about choices in video games is pretty easily shown with a little math.

    In episode 1 and 2:
    Say there were 10 choices with 2 possible outcomes(PO) that had a full game impact (i.e. safe Carley/Doug), 4 choices with 3 possible outcomes and 2 choices with even 4 possible outcomes just so we make sure pretty much everyone has a total unique experience.

    Telltale would now already have to deal with 1.024 impact choices just from 2 PO choices (10^2).

    Now come the 3 PO choices and these already have a real impact. They will rise the possible outcomes to 82.944, and adding the 4 PO choices will give Telltale the final number of 1.327.104 possible outcomes and game scenes to deal with, while still staying on track to keep the story together.

    Even keeping it really civil, say we choose 4 choices with 2 PO and 2 with 3 PO, we still end up with 144 outcomes, game scenes, conversations and what not.

    For now, this is an impossible task as most people should be able to understand.

    I think Telltale closely watches what most players do and tailors the story around these choices, and that is how their statement should be understood.

    QFT

    Seriously, you're spot on, man. It's too fantastical for us to ask for a story with so many variables. I agree, it sucks to look past the illusion of freedom, but it just can't happen.

  • @malcom155 said: @8bit system: Stop exagerating please... Nobody ask for such thing ^^!
    I (and other i suppose) don't ask for such numerous outcome, look at my precedent post: i just ask to decide ONE time who live and who die and see consequences and outcomes until the end. None choice impact anything in the STORY. What we see in Playing Dead ? What we see when we launch the game ?

    Story will be tailored by our choice.

    So are we asking for the impossible ? Tellatale made the choice to say that but i can't see it anywhere in the game. What choice change anything ? (beside clem hoodie, which is just a graphical change) So our feedback is unjustified ?


    I'm not so sure about that. Telltale do the little extras for your choices, that definitely alter the storyline, not the global story, but the personal relations. Something The Walking Dead was always about.

    Also, I am pretty sure that Telltale uses the recorded choices not to look at them and compare their boners on who's idea was best, but to "read" the players and react accordingly in future episodes. So by my definition, they tailor the story by our choice. ;)

    @malcom155 said: Omg I love this extremist... You make it sounds like middle way doesnt exist.


    It's not extremist in the least bit. I was only giving numbers and I bet there are quite a few people out there that are not aware how fast numbers sum up, reading some of the posts on this forum.

    As you can see, the civil way is the least a lot of guys are asking for... still a huge amount of work, if at all possible.

    In my oppinion Telltale delivers very well. Of course I would wish for some more freedom here and there, but I also knew what to expect.

  • @8Bit System and Rodia: So if i understand correctly we are asking too much ^^?
    But in this case why they said we can impact the story with our choice ? Now we see the reality and our feedback are asking why. And Tellatalle can't take our stats for tailoring the game now, the last episode in already in production so this argument is invalid...

    So, before it was the "welcome in TWD world, everyone die", now we have a "don't ask for the impossible". I don't ask for the impossible, i ask for what i was advertised multiple times... Nothing more but also nothing less.
    Thanks for reading

    Edit: i may ask a lot but can we have an advice by a team member of Tellatale ? Just to know what they mean by "tailored by the players choices"and what to expect now.

  • @thestalkinghead said: its not an impossible task and not every choice will affect every other choice, and obviously there will be some things that they would always make us do, but what would have been so hard about giving doug or carley their own mission and making it so they have there own death not just identical copies. the fact is telltale make the world that Lee is in so they can easily give us choices that avoid interacting with other choices we could make.


    Well, in my example the choices DO affect each other, as that is what many people cried for.

    Choosing A will take you on a different path then choosing B, both scenes will now have totally independent new choices.

    I totally agree with you on Doug's and Carley's death scenes and probably to a lot more of criticism that is around on these forums, but that was not the point of my post, I just explained something many guys around don't seem to get.

    @thestalkinghead said: and even if that means its is similar to making 3-4 games, thats fine because i have seen adventure games with way more scenes way more characters and not a bigger budget, why cant i have a choice of going north or south and then from that point have a very different story to the other choice, they could still meet up again but as long as there were some lasting affects of the choices you make it would make the choices matter.


    More scenes, more characters, yes. On the other hand there are very few with better, or even equally good storytelling around.

    How many adventure (or in fact any) games would you come up with that deliver the "north/south" choice? I can't really think of any right now.

  • @8Bit_System said: I'm not so sure about that. Telltale do the little extras for your choices, that definitely alter the storyline, not the global story, but the personal relations. Something The Walking Dead was always about.

    Also, I am pretty sure that Telltale uses the recorded choices not to look at them and compare their boners on who's idea was best, but to "read" the players and react accordingly in future episodes. So by my definition, they tailor the story by our choice. ;)


    It's not extremist in the least bit. I was only giving numbers and I bet there are quite a few people out there that are not aware how fast numbers sum up, reading some of the posts on this forum.

    As you can see, the civil way is the least a lot of guys are asking for... still a huge amount of work, if at all possible.

    In my oppinion Telltale delivers very well. Of course I would wish for some more freedom here and there, but I also knew what to expect.

    I know your number was right if you wanna make every choice impacting story but its probably too much. Still there are way to keep it nonlinear but ofcourse it will need more work invest in it... At least 2 storyline per ep would be great but it also have to been think out before start.

  • @8Bit_System said:

    How many adventure (or in fact any) games would you come up with that deliver the "north/south" choice? I can't really think of any right now.

    well that depends, but does it matter?, i didn't know a game had to be a copy of another game else it couldn't be done

  • @malcom155 said: @8Bit System and Rodia: So if i understand correctly we are asking too much ^^?
    But in this case why they said we can impact the story with our choice ? Now we see the reality and our feedback are asking why. And Tellatalle can't take our stats for tailoring the game now, the last episode in already in production so this argument is invalid...


    They can use the stats, in production does not mean finished. If it was finished you would be playing it right now.

    Also, it was never intended to tell you or anyone off, or telling you that you are wrong about every complaint. It is JUST a post to show some people why certain things are not possible, and maybe, just maybe someone will alter his views slightly, and if not... so what?! ;)

    @malcom155 said: well that depends, but does it matter?, i didn't know a game had to be a copy of another game else it couldn't be done


    :confused:

  • @8Bit_System said: How many adventure (or in fact any) games would you come up with that deliver the "north/south" choice? I can't really think of any right now.

    If we dont talk about sandbox and freedom games. Original war just come in my mind...

  • @8Bit_System said: The biggest problem about choices in video games is pretty easily shown with a little math.

    In episode 1 and 2:
    Say there were 10 choices with 2 possible outcomes(PO) that had a full game impact (i.e. safe Carley/Doug), 4 choices with 3 possible outcomes and 2 choices with even 4 possible outcomes just so we make sure pretty much everyone has a total unique experience.

    Telltale would now already have to deal with 1.024 impact choices just from 2 PO choices (10^2).

    Now come the 3 PO choices and these already have a real impact. They will rise the possible outcomes to 82.944, and adding the 4 PO choices will give Telltale the final number of 1.327.104 possible outcomes and game scenes to deal with, while still staying on track to keep the story together.

    Even keeping it really civil, say we choose 4 choices with 2 PO and 2 with 3 PO, we still end up with 144 outcomes, game scenes, conversations and what not.

    For now, this is an impossible task as most people should be able to understand.

    I think Telltale closely watches what most players do and tailors the story around these choices, and that is how their statement should be understood.

    You'd be right if these consequences rippled throughout the whole game, but that's not what people are disappointed by.

    Here's an example of something that wouldn't require a lot of change, but would add that extra touch that's currently missing. At the beginning of episode 2, you're faced with the decision to cut off the foot of the band director, David. If you don't, Travis, the other student, freaks out and winds up getting shot. He dies on the operating table, so to speak, and serves as a lesson to the group about the reality of infection.

    If you do save David, Travis is rather clumsily dispatched from a writing perspective by inexplicably tripping and being devoured. This immediately synchronizes the outcomes of your choice, creating a symmetrical gameplay experience that's easier to write, but less meaningful to the players.

    A nice touch that probably wouldn't have added a ton to development time or cost would have been to have Travis survive if you cut David free, and join you on the trip to the farm with Ben. At that point, he would join you and Mark as you clear off the zombies from the fence, but is killed by the first volley of arrows from the bandits. He then becomes one of the zombies chasing you during the tractor escape scene.

    In this scenario, there doesn't have to much more in the way of dialogue added to the game, and though there's a bit more character modeling, the asymmetry of experience does add quite a bit of variety to my playthrough compared with someone else. And there's no fundamental change in the story.

    TTG does this in minor ways throughout the game, but usually the effects of a decision are immediately played out and then synchronized within the same scene. Many of us would like to see a bit more. You want us to wind up with the same end state for a particular decision? Okay, but let our choices dictate a more varied route to arrive there. Right now, there just aren't enough routes.

  • @8Bit_System said: Well, in my example the choices DO affect each other, as that is what many people cried for.

    Not it this thread... The feedback is focused on the fact that NONE of the choices impact (or tailor if you want) anything in the STORY. It's slightly different...
    The game was selled like (and i'd worked for a video game company before) a choice based story (or the old "you are the hero" books if you prefer). I was not expecting TWD to be like an AAA game, just a cool game based on a franchise I like wich I can influence the story a little.

    But in fact, no matter what you do, you have zero impact and it was not the game i was advertised. ^^

    Edit: i have never said the fourth was finished, just the 5th is already in prod, again, it's slighty different...

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