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The "friendship" with Lilly is fake.

posted by jangjangchang on - last edited - Viewed by 772 users

Kenny has always had my back so I'll have his.

The relationship with Lilly never has you two joking and smiling at each other. She never cares to be your buddy or have your back in times of need.

She sees you as someone she can use. She sees you as a vote. Not Lee.

Side with Kenny he can see you're more then a vote.
You're more then Lee.

You're a friend. Get his back and he'll get your back.

123 Comments - Linear Discussion: Classic Style
  • @Cyreen said: Why does Lilly always look like she got hit with a frying pan in the face?



    :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D lol

  • @YamiRaziel said: That sums it up perfectly :D



    Lilly: Hey Lee, think you could go give my Dad a hand with working on the wall?

    Lee: Sorry Lilly, but I'm going hunting with Kenny and Mark so that the group doesn't starve to death when our food runs out soon.

    *Lilly will remember you didn't help Larry*


    I don't play favorites. Everybody gets one.

  • @jangjangchang said: Kenny has always had my back so I'll have his.

    The relationship with Lilly never has you two joking and smiling at each other. She never cares to be your buddy or have your back in times of need.

    She sees you as someone she can use. She sees you as a vote. Not Lee.

    Side with Kenny he can see you're more then a vote.
    You're more then Lee.

    You're a friend. Get his back and he'll get your back.


    The issue I have with Kenny is the fact that there are more opportunities in the game to do things for him and his family than there are to do things for Lilly and Larry that are optional, yet you can do all but one and Kenny will still turn on you. I fed his son in the pharmacy, consoled Kenny when he didn't help me save Sean/saved Duck instead of Sean(on second play through), I fed his son with the rations, I saved his wife from the walker at the motor inn, I saved his wife from Brenda at the saint John's house. Just because I didn't agree to kill Larry he refused to help me when Danny was pointing a gun at me and he watched me struggle in the pharmacy in episode 3 and waited to see if I would die, despite having a gun and being free to help me.

    There are less opportunities to aid Lilly in the game than Kenny which are optional and meaningful. You can offer her a candy bar in the pharmacy, help her to get the medication for her father(not optional), agree that the group needs leadership in episode two, feed Larry with the rations and help her to try and revive Larry, so you can do far more for Kenny and his family. When I played, siding will Lilly the only time she went against me was when she outed me to the group in episode 3, telling them I was a murderer which can be excused given her emotional/mental state and her desperation.

    My point is, I did less for her and Larry over the 3 episodes so I didn't feel as betrayed when she exposed my past as I did when Kenny left me for dead twice. Had Lilly of been of sound mind I think she would have been more Loyal to Lee than Kenny. At times there even seemed like there were possibilities for a romantic relationship to develop between them considering Lee and her father were the one's she most trusted. The Loss of her father would have made her bond closer with Lee if not for her having her break down and killing Carley.

    Kenny on the other hand will treat Lee like an errand boy. If you check how he speaks to him e.g when he rushes him to cut of the teachers leg, he speaks down to him and gives orders, he also does this when he wants Lee to break in to the St John's slaughter house. Lilly treats Lee as an equal, with more respect when she feels supported by Lee and will show concern i.e when he returns from scouting the bandits base and when Lee tells her his plans to help Kenny check out the barn she says it's Lee's call but he should be careful since she thinks it's risky. Lilly shot at Andy when he was about to electicute Lee's head against the wired fence and episode 3 later reveals that she had a caring relationship towards Clementine, as she gave her hair clips to keep her hair tidy.

    To stay friends with Kenny you have to agree with everything he says and practically suck up to him like a side kick. Every walkthrough I have seen on youtube where Kenny is friendly to Lee it is because the player did everything for Kenny and sided against Lilly at every opportunity.

    Lilly behaves the opposite of Kenny in the sense that you can side against her through out episode 1 and 2 and just do one thing for her, try and save her father and she will forgive Lee for every other disagreement from earlier and have his back until she has her break down. Prior to her break down she seems to show more appreciation and memory of the things Lee has done for her through out the episodes.

  • @Wrighty said: I try to keep my arguments to the fuck Kenny thread but I'll post here once.

    Kenny wasn't sure if he was able to save you gun or no gun. And when there are loads of walkers swarming, all using your pistol would do is waste ammo. And I bet most people are angry because they supported Keny until he meat locker, then he was angry at Lee. But I don't blame him, Lees who saved Lary risked his life and risked his family being eaten by the cannibals slowly and painfully for an old guy who treated everyone else like shit and might be dead. . They forced him to kill Larry by himself and shoulder the guilt himself, even if it was the right call.

    Also I think moments like Kenny trusts you enough to tell you Duck is bitten (he could have kept quiet, or lied) and when offers to teach you how to use he train, in case he dies, shows how much of a good friend he is.


    Firstly Kenny doesn't tell you Duck is bitten it is his wife that informs Lee because she acknowledges the seriousness and the ramifications. Kenny sweeps it under the rug so to speak and is in denial, choosing to believe his son won't turn into a walker.

    With regards to the pharmacy incident in episode 3 for those that didn't kiss Kenny's arse throughout the series, Kenny knew he could have helped Lee he just chose not to. The noise from using a gun is only an issue when they want to go unnoticed. The place was overrun, that was a good enough reason to use a gun as any. The proof that he could have helped Lee is that he will help Lee on a different play through if he still likes Lee enough to.

    As for the meat locker situation, assuming Lee froze up and did not, in the moment see things from Kenny's point of view that was still no reason to deliberately leave Lee for dead. Kenny suggesting Clementine crawls through the vent into an unknown location put her at as much risk as Lee put the group in my refusing to kill Larry before he reanimated.

    Personally I don't believe that Lee and Lilly put the group at risk considering they had the advantage of kneeling/standing over him. If he is on his back he is not as strong as 2 adults using their force downwards towards him. Unlike the incident at the motor inn when Lee was on his back fighting of the zombie. Zombie's are not gifted with super strength, they are not stronger than they were before death. Lee struggled at the motor inn because it's weight was on top of him. Kenny did not take this into account. Lee and Lilly would have had more leverage. They had higher ground. That is how Obi wan defeated Anakin in starwars episode 3. Larry could have been restrained. Kenny could have held the salt lick above his head in case he turned into a zombie but he was impatient and chose the short and easier route of killing Larry the easiest way possible. Kenny was not in a good emotional state considering he was panicking about the fate of his wife and son when he made the decision to kill Larry. He even looks regretful after he has done it as if in disbelief of his own actions. He just wanted to get out of the meat locker to find his family and he didn't think or care about anything else and was even quick to suggest Clementine climbed though the shaft.

    The point i'm making here is that Kenny's behavior towards Lee after the meat locker incident is not justifiable, given the way Lee has looked out for his family for the last 3 months. There is no way Lee disagreeing with him about his views on killing Larry in cold blood in front of his daughter and an 8 year old girl can negate or erase all of the sacrifices Lee had made for Kenny, Duck and Kat.

    Lee took a risk out of compassion. Carley took a risk to leave the pharmacy to save Kenny,Duck,Kat,Clem and Lee. Had Carley of listened to Lilly in the drugstore Lee and his whole group would have died. The same compassion and desire to save a life Carly and Glen showed in helping Lee's group is the same compassion Lee shows in trying to save Larry. When they gave away their position at the pharmacy in episode 1 there were hordes of zombies.

    Kenny was panicking and thinking about the easiest option when refusing to help Larry the same way Larry was in the pharmacy when he didn't want Lee's group inside to attract the outside zombies attention to them.

    When duck is bitten Kenny is willing to keep him in the group putting everyone at risk on a moving train and whilst driving the RV. Had Duck of turned whilst Kenny was driving he could have crashed and killed everyone but he took that risk out of love for his son. I would say the group were at a greater risk then than they were in the meat locker as there was no guarantee that Larry would have turned into a zombie.

  • @dee23 said: Firstly Kenny doesn't tell you Duck is bitten it is his wife that informs Lee because she acknowledges the seriousness and the ramifications. Kenny sweeps it under the rug so to speak and is in denial, choosing to believe his son won't turn into a walker.

    With regards to the pharmacy incident in episode 3 for those that didn't kiss Kenny's arse throughout the series, Kenny knew he could have helped Lee he just chose not to. The noise from using a gun is only an issue when they want to go unnoticed. The place was overrun, that was a good enough reason to use a gun as any. The proof that he could have helped Lee is that he will help Lee on a different play through if he still likes Lee enough to.

    As for the meat locker situation, assuming Lee froze up and did not, in the moment see things from Kenny's point of view that was still no reason to deliberately leave Lee for dead. Kenny suggesting Clementine crawls through the vent into an unknown location put her at as much risk as Lee put the group in my refusing to kill Larry before he reanimated.

    Personally I don't believe that Lee and Lilly put the group at risk considering they had the advantage of kneeling/standing over him. If he is on his back he is not as strong as 2 adults using their force downwards towards him. Unlike the incident at the motor inn when Lee was on his back fighting of the zombie. Zombie's are not gifted with super strength, they are not stronger than they were before death. Lee struggled at the motor inn because it's weight was on top of him. Kenny did not take this into account. Lee and Lilly would have had more leverage. They had higher ground. That is how Obi wan defeated Anakin in starwars episode 3. Larry could have been restrained. Kenny could have held the salt lick above his head in case he turned into a zombie but he was impatient and chose the short and easier route of killing Larry the easiest way possible. Kenny was not in a good emotional state considering he was panicking about the fate of his wife and son when he made the decision to kill Larry. He even looks regretful after he has done it as if in disbelief of his own actions. He just wanted to get out of the meat locker to find his family and he didn't think or care about anything else and was even quick to suggest Clementine climbed though the shaft.

    The point i'm making here is that Kenny's behavior towards Lee after the meat locker incident is not justifiable, given the way Lee has looked out for his family for the last 3 months. There is no way Lee disagreeing with him about his views on killing Larry in cold blood in front of his daughter and an 8 year old girl can negate or erase all of the sacrifices Lee had made for Kenny, Duck and Kat.

    Lee took a risk out of compassion. Carley took a risk to leave the pharmacy to save Kenny,Duck,Kat,Clem and Lee. Had Carley of listened to Lilly in the drugstore Lee and his whole group would have died. The same compassion and desire to save a life Carly and Glen showed in helping Lee's group is the same compassion Lee shows in trying to save Larry. When they gave away their position at the pharmacy in episode 1 there were hordes of zombies.

    Kenny was panicking and thinking about the easiest option when refusing to help Larry the same way Larry was in the pharmacy when he didn't want Lee's group inside to attract the outside zombies attention to them.

    When duck is bitten Kenny is willing to keep him in the group putting everyone at risk on a moving train and whilst driving the RV. Had Duck of turned whilst Kenny was driving he could have crashed and killed everyone but he took that risk out of love for his son. I would say the group were at a greater risk then than they were in the meat locker as there was no guarantee that Larry would have turned into a zombie.



    Nope, its pretty clear they both inform Lee, Kat is just the one to talk. When Kat told Lee, Ken did not look angry but just sad and he says something around how honesty is important. Theres no proof or evidence to suggest Kenny didnt want to tell anyone. And i dont blame him for being in denial, its probably a easy reaction for someone who's son has just been condemned to death. Not to mention we still dont know much about the disease, for all we know it doesnt affect children.

    And just because Kenny doesnt rush in to save a guy he doesnt like in ep 3 and rushes in to save a friend in the same situation doesnt make him a bad person. Its natural. Not to mention, gunshots will dig them a bigger hole as it will attract even more zombies and possibly bandits from the area, making there escape that much harder.

    What do you mean, leave Lee for dead anyway? In the meatlocker, he just pushes Lee aside and makes the right choice himself. Not really leaving him for dead. For Clem, you are hardly sending her into a small room with a huge zombie waiting on the other side. Even if the bandits do find her, they'll probably just stick her back in the locker and put a guard in that room. No point killing her and wasting food. Not to mention its only one person. With you refusing to kill Larry, you risk the lives OF THE ENTIRE GROUP, not to mention Kat and Duck getting absolutely horrible deaths. Besides, there was no other way to get out of the meatlocker anyway. If its a choice between everyone getting killed or risking Clem's life, sorry clem get in the vent :P

    And sure, zombies dont get super strong. But Larry was huge and strong in life, as he will be in undeath, so he is a much larger threat than you're average walker. I think he will be stronger than the two, especially since they are basically starving and they havent eaten in absolutely ages. Not to mention they tend to jump up and no one had any decent weapons to deal with him, so there was a huge chance of him biting someone and Kenny doesnt know how bites even work. Add all that, and you simply cant deny he is a huge threat. If Kenny misses the saltlick or Larry jumps up (as they do) and moves slightly, then they are all dead. The smartest option is the safest option and thats to kill him before he reaminates. And sure he looked regretful. I would think he was evil if he didnt regret it, but it was still the right option. And again, sending Clem through the vent was the only way they are getting out and i dont blame him for wanting to get his family ASAP.

    In the meatlocker, if you try to help Larry, you threaten Kenny and the only thing he cares about which is his family. And not just with quick deaths, or even getting eaten by zombies. No, you risk his family getting pieces cut off of them, bit by bit, and this could go on for days or even months. Kept alive with medicine and bandages, so they dont die and reaminate, so they can get as much meat as possible. You risked that happening (as well as everyone elses lives) for some old bastard who punched you in the face after you got him his heart medicine. Hard to see why he doesnt like you anymore :p And at the end of the day, he hasnt tried to kill you or anything but if it comes to life or death situations, he is less likely to risk his own life to save youre own.

    And i get its a risk of compassion. But the risk in the meatlocker is HUGE compared to the one in the shop, not to mention it risks children getting eaten slowly by cannibals. And at least the people in the pharmacy had weapons and had a strong gate to hide behind. None of that in the meatlocker. The only thing stopping everyone from getting killed is the chance that Larry is in fact not dead, after having a huge heart attack, (and the last time we had to get him medicine). The two situations are completely different.

    Same with the RV. I'd put there chances of survival of an RV crash much higher than there chances of survival against a huge zombie Larry in a small meatlocker with no weapons with the added risk of people getting eaten alive slowly outside. Not to mention there is no guarantee that Kenny would actually crash the RV. And we know that Duck would have to die before he reaminates and i trusted Kat to shout out or get Kenny to stop when he died or was about to die as she did. Obviously the right choice.

  • @dee23 said: The issue I have with Kenny is the fact that there are more opportunities in the game to do things for him and his family than there are to do things for Lilly and Larry that are optional, yet you can do all but one and Kenny will still turn on you. I fed his son in the pharmacy, consoled Kenny when he didn't help me save Sean/saved Duck instead of Sean(on second play through), I fed his son with the rations, I saved his wife from the walker at the motor inn, I saved his wife from Brenda at the saint John's house. Just because I didn't agree to kill Larry he refused to help me when Danny was pointing a gun at me and he watched me struggle in the pharmacy in episode 3 and waited to see if I would die, despite having a gun and being free to help me.

    There are less opportunities to aid Lilly in the game than Kenny which are optional and meaningful. You can offer her a candy bar in the pharmacy, help her to get the medication for her father(not optional), agree that the group needs leadership in episode two, feed Larry with the rations and help her to try and revive Larry, so you can do far more for Kenny and his family. When I played, siding will Lilly the only time she went against me was when she outed me to the group in episode 3, telling them I was a murderer which can be excused given her emotional/mental state and her desperation.

    My point is, I did less for her and Larry over the 3 episodes so I didn't feel as betrayed when she exposed my past as I did when Kenny left me for dead twice. Had Lilly of been of sound mind I think she would have been more Loyal to Lee than Kenny. At times there even seemed like there were possibilities for a romantic relationship to develop between them considering Lee and her father were the one's she most trusted. The Loss of her father would have made her bond closer with Lee if not for her having her break down and killing Carley.

    Kenny on the other hand will treat Lee like an errand boy. If you check how he speaks to him e.g when he rushes him to cut of the teachers leg, he speaks down to him and gives orders, he also does this when he wants Lee to break in to the St John's slaughter house. Lilly treats Lee as an equal, with more respect when she feels supported by Lee and will show concern i.e when he returns from scouting the bandits base and when Lee tells her his plans to help Kenny check out the barn she says it's Lee's call but he should be careful since she thinks it's risky. Lilly shot at Andy when he was about to electicute Lee's head against the wired fence and episode 3 later reveals that she had a caring relationship towards Clementine, as she gave her hair clips to keep her hair tidy.

    To stay friends with Kenny you have to agree with everything he says and practically suck up to him like a side kick. Every walkthrough I have seen on youtube where Kenny is friendly to Lee it is because the player did everything for Kenny and sided against Lilly at every opportunity.

    Lilly behaves the opposite of Kenny in the sense that you can side against her through out episode 1 and 2 and just do one thing for her, try and save her father and she will forgive Lee for every other disagreement from earlier and have his back until she has her break down. Prior to her break down she seems to show more appreciation and memory of the things Lee has done for her through out the episodes.



    It's the MEAT LOCKER! You can side against Kenny EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. but the meat locker, and he'll have your back from then on. I refused to take the food, and I shot the girl in the street when he told me to leave her. Guess what? He called me his pal in the pharmacy, just after helping me get out from under the door. When I told him I was a murderer, he said "It doesn't matter Lee. And don't think you owe anyone an explanation. You're ok with me" or something like that. He sin't friendly to me because he thinks I'm his henchman, he's friendly to me because we are FRIENDS. Whenever he says something that I agree with, I agree with him because I think he truly is right.

    I don't see how giving Clem hair ties counts as Lilly lining up to be her new mother. Lilly didn't truly CARE about anyone except Larry. That's why staying near Macon was so important. For LARRY'S heart medication. She wasn't the one who saved the group in the pharmacy in Episode 1, that was Kenny. She only cared about her father during that incident, while Kenny took charge and got almost everyone out alive. He even comes back for Lee if Lee was a complete asshole to him during the entire episode. It doesn't seem like Lilly and Kenny are all that different, but at least Kenny didn't steal the RV and leave everyone to die at the train. Lilly does that no matter what, just like Kenny saving you in Episode 1.

  • @Rock114 said: It's the MEAT LOCKER! You can side against Kenny EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. but the meat locker, and he'll have your back from then on. I refused to take the food, and I shot the girl in the street when he told me to leave her. Guess what? He called me his pal in the pharmacy, just after helping me get out from under the door. When I told him I was a murderer, he said "It doesn't matter Lee. And don't think you owe anyone an explanation. You're ok with me" or something like that. He sin't friendly to me because he thinks I'm his henchman, he's friendly to me because we are FRIENDS. Whenever he says something that I agree with, I agree with him because I think he truly is right.

    I don't see how giving Clem hair ties counts as Lilly lining up to be her new mother. Lilly didn't truly CARE about anyone except Larry. That's why staying near Macon was so important. For LARRY'S heart medication. She wasn't the one who saved the group in the pharmacy in Episode 1, that was Kenny. She only cared about her father during that incident, while Kenny took charge and got almost everyone out alive. He even comes back for Lee if Lee was a complete asshole to him during the entire episode. It doesn't seem like Lilly and Kenny are all that different, but at least Kenny didn't steal the RV and leave everyone to die at the train. Lilly does that no matter what, just like Kenny saving you in Episode 1.



    That's not what happened in my plays. While I was supporting or sometimes not Kenny, he kept whining for every single time I didn't side with him, calling me all sorts of names. Not exactly a friend. Even if you're friends he doesn't even try to understand your point. Guess he's just letting it go without discussing.
    For the second paragraph I think you're giving Kenny too much credit. He did almost nothing in ep. 1 except threatening to kill the strangers that saved our lives. Well, I guess that's how he is with strangers.
    Lee and Glenn did most of the things, found fuel and the key to the pharmacy.

  • @YamiRaziel said: That's not what happened in my plays. While I was supporting or sometimes not Kenny, he kept whining for every single time I didn't side with him, calling me all sorts of names. Not exactly a friend. Even if you're friends he doesn't even try to understand your point. Guess he's just letting it go without discussing.
    For the second paragraph I think you're giving Kenny too much credit. He did almost nothing in ep. 1 except threatening to kill the strangers that saved our lives. Well, I guess that's how he is with strangers.
    Lee and Glenn did most of the things, found fuel and the key to the pharmacy.



    He only threatened to kill Larry. Larry, the old man who left us for dead, was trying to get everyone to side with him and kill Duck, Kenny's son. They didn't exactly welcome our group with open arms. Then again, maybe Kenny should have just stepped aside and let Larry smash Duck's head in for the sake of being polite, right?

  • @Rock114 said: He only threatened to kill Larry. Larry, the old man who left us for dead, was trying to get everyone to side with him and kill Duck, Kenny's son. They didn't exactly welcome our group with open arms. Then again, maybe Kenny should have just stepped aside and let Larry smash Duck's head in for the sake of being polite, right?



    Of course, not. He could've check his son first, before threatening anybody. What if they were a united group, one that would see us as potential troublemakers and left us out because Kenny threatened Larry?
    We had no guns and they had just saved our lives, despite having problems of their own.
    Larry acted in the best of the group, something you usually claim Kenny does.
    However, the slight difference is that Larry wasn't hostile to people who could be trouble (for example the St. Johns), he was hostile to people who had attitude, no brains and no guns.
    I don't want to have Kenny beside me when I meet new people. He could only put me in trouble.

  • @YamiRaziel said: Of course, not. He could've check his son first, before threatening anybody. What if they were a united group, one that would see us as potential troublemakers and left us out because Kenny threatened Larry?
    We had no guns and they had just saved our lives, despite having problems of their own.
    Larry acted in the best of the group, something you usually claim Kenny does.
    However, the slight difference is that Larry wasn't hostile to people who could be trouble (for example the St. Johns), he was hostile to people who had attitude, no brains and no guns.
    I don't want to have Kenny beside me when I meet new people. He could only put me in trouble.



    Kat was already checking, and Kenny needed to hold Larry off while she did so. Larry was ready to throw out Duck right there and then. Besides two people checking would just be unnessesary.

    Whose "they" anyway? It was just Carely who stood up and did what she thought was right. And its not like he went in and started threatening and picking fights with the whole group. Larry immediatly got in Kenny's face and started shouting about how they need to kill Duck, even though he has no proof and no evidence of a bite. He's hardly going to go "Well i dont think you are right, but since you saved our lives I guess you can take our son and kill him, even though you have no proof he is bitten. One of your group members saved our lives so it is only fair" :P

    And how did Kenny have attitude? They literally did nothing wrong before Larry started shouting. No guns? Just because they have no weapons doesnt mean he is allowed to be hostile to everyone. No brains? If Larry was smart, he would realise that killing a child before getting proof is dumb, especially if the pissed off father is standing right there. Kenny did nothing wrong and said nothing hostile to the St Johns when he arrived, so he obviously doesnt go around picking fights with people. And before you mention Omid or Chuck, his wife and son had just died like 2 hours ago, so he was seriously pissed off.

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