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Main reason why I saved Ben

posted by Yertos on - last edited - Viewed by 777 users

To put it simply, it's because he practically begged me to drop him. Finally realizing the damage he has done to the group he is willing to give his life to help make it right and for Lee to get away. Now if he was begging me to pull him up I honestly would have dropped him, but because he knows deep down on some level he deserves what is happening to him and is at peace with it and wants you to let him die for the group shows that he is willing to do the right thing. If the roles were reversed and it was Kenny hanging, he would not ask that of you, he would demand you pull him up even though Ben and him both carry guilt for Duck and Katjaa's death (Ben for his actions at the motor inn, Kenny for leaving Shawn to die resulting in Karma getting back to him with his son's death).

Before this episode I kinda gave Ben the three strike rule. First was not telling Lee about the deal with the bandits, second was running away from Clem leaving her to the walkers, and the third was removing the hatchet causing Brie's death. After all that I was like, "Okay this guy had enough chances, he's done", but after he speech to Kenny and to Lee at the bell tower I just couldn't let him die. He is now completely accepting of his role in multiple deaths, was willing to die because of them, and now as we walk onward to save Clem, I truly believe he is gonna step up and do whatever it takes to make it right, he no longer cares if he lives or dies at this point, his only goal left is to try and make things right and I believe in the end he will die saving Clem.

31 Comments - Linear Discussion: Classic Style
  • Before the zombie apocalypse the hardest moment of Ben's life was Susy Q not wanting to go to the ice cream social as his date or not having the newest version of the iphone. It's a bit much to expect 'man-up mode' so soon when he spent sixteen or more years completely dependent on others and without the capability to contribute.

  • @Bearcules said: Before the zombie apocalypse the hardest moment of Ben's life was Susy Q not wanting to go to the ice cream social as his date or not having the newest version of the iphone. It's a bit much to expect 'man-up mode' so soon when he spent sixteen or more years completely dependent on others and without the capability to contribute.

    Lee was a professor at a University, Kenny was a fisherman. Nobody was "ready" for the apocalypse. Hell look at Carl from the show/comics. In a few months, Carl is a hardened veteran. It's just a bullcrap excuse to say that it's a lot to ask him to man up. Clementine is another good example. You think she had to make hard decisions beforehand? What you're asking Ben to do/not do are not things that he isn't capable of. He's just a moron.

  • @skepticalguy90 said: Lee was a professor at a University, Kenny was a fisherman. Nobody was "ready" for the apocalypse. Hell look at Carl from the show/comics. In a few months, Carl is a hardened veteran. It's just a bullcrap excuse to say that it's a lot to ask him to man up. Clementine is another good example. You think she had to make hard decisions beforehand? What you're asking Ben to do/not do are not things that he isn't capable of. He's just a moron.

    You're comparing kids with a teenager. Kids learn and change a lot easier than a teenager that has formed most of his personality by the time the apocalypse started. And adults have a lot more life experience and are all expected to step up and take charge, so I don't think it's fair to compare an adult to a teenager either. And yeah, look at Carl. He became a scary sociopath. I think Ben will understand that he needs to pull his weight like everyone else. He's just more scared than the average person, there's a lot more pressure than he expects there to be. Just give him time. If he doesn't end up dying because he keeps messing up, he'll end up learning.

  • @Viser said: You're comparing kids with a teenager. Kids learn and change a lot easier than a teenager that has formed most of his personality by the time the apocalypse started. And adults have a lot more life experience and are all expected to step up and take charge, so I don't think it's fair to compare an adult to a teenager either. And yeah, look at Carl. He became a scary sociopath. I think Ben will understand that he needs to pull his weight like everyone else. He's just more scared than the average person, there's a lot more pressure than he expects there to be. Just give him time. If he doesn't end up dying because he keeps messing up, he'll end up learning.

    I don't think giving Ben time to grow up will be a problem :P
    Again, it's an adapt or die situation. It's easy to say "oh just give him more time." I don't know about you, but I can't justify giving him more time to get his crap together. And everyday that he is around, he is just increases the chance that he is going to do something stupid that will get them killed.

  • @skepticalguy90 said: I don't think giving Ben time to grow up will be a problem :P
    Again, it's an adapt or die situation. It's easy to say "oh just give him more time." I don't know about you, but I can't justify giving him more time to get his crap together. And everyday that he is around, he is just increases the chance that he is going to do something stupid that will get them killed.

    Yeah, it's adapt or die. I just think he needs a while to adapt, but after episode 4 I think he has definitely grown up mentally. Well, I'm fine with giving him some more time to adapt, I actually like his character, despite everything he's put us through :p

  • @Viser said: Yeah, it's adapt or die. I just think he needs a while to adapt, but after episode 4 I think he has definitely grown up mentally. Well, I'm fine with giving him some more time to adapt, I actually like his character, despite everything he's put us through :p

    It's been a few months since they picked Ben up. Under constant fire from the bandits, thrown in with the trouble in the city. If you haven't picked it up in a couple months under fire, I don't think you will. He may have grown mentally, that doesn't mean that he is going to become less stupid/more useful.

  • @skepticalguy90 said: It's been a few months since they picked Ben up. Under constant fire from the bandits, thrown in with the trouble in the city. If you haven't picked it up in a couple months under fire, I don't think you will. He may have grown mentally, that doesn't mean that he is going to become less stupid/more useful.

    Wait, they only picked Ben up on the beginning of episode 2. Hasn't it been only a week or so after episode 2?
    Assuming he was with his schoolmates during the first three months, he only joined Lee's group after that. So he had about a week to adapt, that's why I think it's fine if he has some more time.

  • @Viser said: Wait, they only picked Ben up on the beginning of episode 2. Hasn't it been only a week or so after episode 2?
    Assuming he was with his schoolmates during the first three months, he only joined Lee's group after that. So he had about a week to adapt, that's why I think it's fine if he has some more time.

    yeah, my bad, I'm not sure how long after episode 2 that episode 3 takes place. I know they had been putting up with the bandits for a while, and had time to pick Macon clean. To be honest, if I could have kicked Ben out, I would have. I just can't justify keeping the guy around when he has shown multiple times that he cannot be relied upon to do simple tasks. It's not like you're asking him to break into Crawford, singlehandedly assassinate the leader, steal all the supplies and get out unseen. You asked him to keep an eye on Clementine, and he lets her wander off. He pulls the hatchet out of the blood covered door, it gets Brie killed and Molly potentially separated. He feels the need to tell Kenny about Duck and Katjaa while the walkers are trying to get in. I don't think it is a matter of adapting, the kid is just stupid and a liability.

  • @skepticalguy90 said: yeah, my bad, I'm not sure how long after episode 2 that episode 3 takes place. I know they had been putting up with the bandits for a while, and had time to pick Macon clean. To be honest, if I could have kicked Ben out, I would have. I just can't justify keeping the guy around when he has shown multiple times that he cannot be relied upon to do simple tasks. It's not like you're asking him to break into Crawford, singlehandedly assassinate the leader, steal all the supplies and get out unseen. You asked him to keep an eye on Clementine, and he lets her wander off. He pulls the hatchet out of the blood covered door, it gets Brie killed and Molly potentially separated. He feels the need to tell Kenny about Duck and Katjaa while the walkers are trying to get in. I don't think it is a matter of adapting, the kid is just stupid and a liability.

    Well, I guess we just have two different points of view. I do agree he messes up A LOT, and I also got pretty mad when I got back from the sewers and he hadn't kept an eye on Clementine, but I'm just willing to give him yet another chance after the events of episode 4. And I would never want to kick anyone out of the group, no matter how much of a liability they might be. So I guess I'll be keeping Ben around until he screws up so bad everyone dies, I'm just that stupid :D

  • @Viser said: Well, I guess we just have two different points of view. I do agree he messes up A LOT, and I also got pretty mad when I got back from the sewers and he hadn't kept an eye on Clementine, but I'm just willing to give him yet another chance after the events of episode 4. And I would never want to kick anyone out of the group, no matter how much of a liability they might be. So I guess I'll be keeping Ben around until he screws up so bad everyone dies, I'm just that stupid :D

    I don't think the people that save Ben are stupid. I can see why you want to save him. I think the real difference between the two viewpoints is morals vs. pragmatism (or more likely utilitarianism - at least for me).

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