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So Mr. Whitta what do you have against "Johns"?

posted by NeonBlade on - last edited - Viewed by 1.1K users

I think everyone over the age of 10 knows what a John is. It's the clientele of Prostitutes.

This has to do with the character Logan, and while he is a divisive character in a harsh environment; I don't understand some reactions on the forum.

It seems most people misconstrue prostitution for rape. I am not condoning his actions or condemning Molly's.

I have said if this scenario had occurred outside of the Zombie apocalypse. Where Molly's sister was substituted for a child, or infact, it could still be her sister in this scenario, and we exchange the insulin for money.

Molly's child/sister is at home and the food in the cupboard is dwindling and Molly chooses to prostitute herself for money to buy food to bring home to said child/younger sister. How is this a demonstrable act on Logan's part or Molly's part.

If the "John" said. I'm sorry my wife and I are reconciling and I can't do this anymore, and the child starves to death, would the prostitute find the man and stab him for not having sex with her any longer and giving her his income? Then smack his dead body around?

I understand Molly's frustration at the situation, but she could not realistically expect Logan to give away the medicine, defy a lunatic who runs the camp and I am 100% sure Molly would have been the one that propositioned him.

Since Logan could care less if Molly's sister lives or dies, the ball is in her court to make an arrangement suitable enough for him to risk parting with the medicine.

It is Molly who has something to gain, so being a resourceful woman she would tap into primal urges and use the oldest profession in the world to gain the necessities for her loved one.

I know in such short episodes it is difficult to flesh out controversial themes; and sometimes I suppose the quickest and dirtiest way to handle this to use a heavy handed approach, using emotional hair triggers to pull reactions from the easily offended and naive is a writing strategy for juvenile texts, but effective in its own way. It allows those with more liberal views to see Logan as some rape craving monster.

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  • Yeah that's what is issue here. We know Logan is a scum bag no one is trying to defend him, but from Mollys perspective. Did she "not want to do it" or did she just "resign herself" and said "OK, douche bag, deal"..... doing it to save the sister?

  • @NeonBlade said: Yeah that's what is issue here. We know Logan is a scum bag no one is trying to defend him, but from Mollys perspective. Did she "not want to do it" or did she just "resign herself" and said "OK, douche bag, deal"..... doing it to save the sister?

    There's no evidence to support anything other than she resigned herself, as you put it.

  • Just out of curiosity, how would this be handled legally outside of the US? Would he be persecuted for rape in your country?

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    Vainamoinen Moderator

    @Red Panda said: Rape is a legal definition. It's a crime. So what do the laws say?

    I'm far from stating that this is irrelevant. But if we're to evaluate what's happening on screen, it will have to take a back seat. It is not only a fictional narrative (in which moral judgement is always key to the grown-up audience's interpretation); it also is a post-apocalyptic setting in which the laws imposed by any government do not apply - and moral judgement of the fictional characters is in fact the only 'law' to go by.

  • @BlankCanvasDJ said: She didn't have to? Because letting her sister go without the medicine that she needs was really a reasonable option for her? Holy crap, guys, you have a twistedly specific definition of the word "force".

    Put it this way...if the guy put a gun to her sister's head and said, "have sex with me or I'll blow her brains out" are you really going to say that's not force?

    I already see a flaw in your arguement, Dr Logan did not put a gun up to her head and say have sex with me or I'll blow your brains out, yes that is force but he didn't do that. And you know she agreed because when she had the sex with him she wasn't scared she was serious, not scared that anytime he would turn on her with a gun.

    But again, like I said time and time again, taking her sister out of the picture, she wasn't forced to have sex with him, but Dr Logan realised he was the one in control and how desperate Molly was for the medication that he took advantage, Molly did the honarable thing and did something that she never wanted to do but felt like she needed to. I can see where you are coming from but it was exploitation not rape. Dr Logan never pushed Molly against the wall and threatened to shoot her if she didn't have sex with him, nor did he just push her onto the bed and did it with her compliance.

    Period.

  • @Vainamoinen said: I'm far from stating that this is irrelevant. But if we're to evaluate what's happening on screen, it will have to take a back seat. It is not only a fictional narrative (in which moral judgement is always key to the grown-up audience's interpretation); it also is a post-apocalyptic setting in which the laws imposed by any government do not apply - and moral judgement of the fictional characters is in fact the only 'law' to go by.

    I agree and say as much at the end of the post you quoted.

    @Vainamoinen said: But in the ZA there is no legal system so you can't commit any crimes, really. All we can do is talk about morality and I think morally he is wrong.

  • [QUOTE=TWDFTW;710830]I already see a flaw in your arguement, Dr Logan did not put a gun up to her head and say have sex with me or I'll blow your brains out, yes that is force but he didn't do that. And you know she agreed because when she had the sex with him she wasn't scared she was serious, not scared that anytime he would turn on her with a gun.

    We as players have no idea how the situation began. We do not see tapes of all of Molly's encounters with the doctor. He may have, in fact, put a gun to her head and forced her in the beginning. Thereafter, she would have complied because she had no other way to help her sister. Just because she did not appear afraid, doesn't mean she may not have been. To those who equate a girl that was desperate to save the only remaining loved one that she had with a prostitute is an insult; and to those who say she was not harmed, how would you know? We thankfully don't see exactly what he does to this poor girl.

  • I was so damned irritated typing the above message, I somehow managed to not get the quote I was replying to in it's little blue box. No idea how either.

  • All I know is the doctor wanted to stop having sexual relations with Molly because he was afraid that Oberson would catch him. Molly was the one saying "Why? If I don't get this medicine my sister would die" which gave me the impression that it was CONSENTED sex. Choosing to have sex or not is "consented sex" not "rape". Molly had a choice.. and she chose to give up the nookie lol. She could've obviously kept her legs closed and kept it moving, but I think that she was so desperate to help her sister that she offered to have sex as an exchange for meds.

  • Occam's razor suggests it was trading.

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