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The Big Ben Discussion... *SPOILERS*

posted by Smithian on - last edited - Viewed by 689 users

Hello all!

I've been looking through the forums and have found a few discussions on Ben, but nothing very in depth. I'm a forum noob myself so apologies if you're a "search button nazi" and will come to tell me off because you have nothing better to do.

Anyway... Onwards!

Firstly, I love this game! It makes decision making so difficult sometimes as you never have a win/win situation. It never patronises you with a "You chose the good action, so everything will be good :)" cliche like so many other RPG's. Which is where Ben comes into the equation...

I'm not a fan of Ben... At all! After I found out he had a deal with the bandits and was the reason Carley/Doug, Katjaa and Duck were all killed, he was dead to me! I couldn't wait for episode 4 and I was hoping I could either leave him or kill him.

When episode 4 rolled around, and he leaves Clementine in the street to die, that just confirmed how quickly I'd kill him or kick him out the group. I know he doesn't have bad intentions as such, but he is completely brain dead (pun!) and a massive liability for the group, as proved in episode 4 where he evolves from generally useless to a complete fuck up. As the episode went on, I had more and more reasons to kill him, like when he took the axe out the locked door or didn't keep an eye on Clementine in the house... He was pushing all my buttons.

As soon as the moment came around when he was caught by the zombie on the bell tower, I was so happy. I didn't even shoot the zombie in an attempt to help him, I just waited and let him fall to the bottom and die. At that moment, I was glad to be rid of him.

When I saw Clementine's reaction to this, I started to regret it, a little. I'd do more or less anything for Clementine as she's one of the last few things left in the awful Walking Dead world that has remained innocent and hopeful. She always see's the best in people, even if they leave her in the street to die like Ben did.

What made me start to regret my decision to let Ben die was when I watched on YouTube what happens if you shoot the zombie on the bell tower and try to help Ben. He asks you to look after the others and leave him to die. That was the first time I've ever had a glimpse of respect for Ben because he finally put other people before himself. The rest of the time in the group he's been a totally useless, whiny little leech, but then he really "manned up" so to speak.

After seeing him drop then, I felt pretty terrible, to the extent I even questioned myself as a person if I would really let him do that in that situation (not that I'd have the upper body strength to lift him up with one hand anyway!)

I started thinking that if I don't do all I can to save everyone, regardless of whether they've fucked up or were totally useless, what does that make me? How am I any better than the rest of the group who can be really unreliable and flawed at best. I wouldn't give evil people like the Saint Johns a chance, I'd leave them to die without a flicker of regret, but I started to wonder whether Ben deserved to die just because he was useless?

I'm not a fan on going back on my original decisions, I think it cheapens it somewhat, but I am considering saving Ben and taking the whole group with me to save Clem, even after all that Ben has done. I don't really trust any of the characters that much, especially after the twists and turns of previous episodes, but I also don't want to see them come to harm anymore like I previously did. Clementine is the one that will always come first for me however and I'll do anything for her, even if that means sucking up my own distrust or hate of others so that I don't have to put Clementine through anything worse.

What do you all think about the situation? What were your thoughts and feelings towards Ben up to and after the point of his death/rescue? I'd be interested to know so I can decide what to do with him in that situation.

29 Comments - Linear Discussion: Classic Style
  • The Episode 5 group I'd want is Lee, Ben and Kenny. Ben and Kenny both have some serious atonement to do, but Christa and Omid don't deserve to go off on a suicide mission and die. Which kind of sucks, considering that I showed the bite in my first playthrough. But after I beat it with my main save, I'll go though 5 on the secondary save I have set up where it IS just me, Ben, and Kenny.

  • I could never really kill Ben or anything. I was really disappointed with him with his decisions. But those decisions were things he thought would help the group... He is the type of guy who means well but kinda messes things up. You can't blame him for that. I'm still waiting for Ben to do something extraordinary. These type of people usually do in due time if given the chance!

  • Ben will Save himself taking the boat and killing lee in the fight with radio man.
    THE END

  • I dropped Ben because I believe that morality has to change as the situation does and this is a completely different world than the pre-ZA one. Ben, not once, not twice but multiple times screws up. And the problem is that he just doesn't LISTEN. Ben is not a team player. He has enjoyed the protection from the group but done nothing to earn his stay at all. Let's count just a few of the things he has done wrong:

    - deal with the bandits without consulting the group (he had no right to take our supplies and give them to the bandits and with proper warning we would've been much more prepared to take them on).

    - not admitting that it was him and then admitting it at the worst possible time. Once again, ruining the team dynamic and jeopardizing LIVES!

    - not protecting Clementine - not just in the street - but also not keeping an eye on her and letting her get out of the house. He is completely reckless.

    - removing the hatchet from the door. Granted, the zombies may not have been there at the moment and maybe Lee or even Kenny would've been smarter to mention why there was a weapon in the door to Ben. BUT how dumb can you be??

    It may have been wrong to let him die that way but I do feel that realistically, if you pulled him up, there should have been worse consequences for wasting your time while zombies are approaching. The ZA has been going on for over 3 months now so I don't think there is really an excuse for Ben to be as clueless as he is. You can say oh the group will vote but even if they voted to kick him out, how much better is that? You're basically condemning him to die anyway. Why waste resources and energy on someone worthless. Even Clem knows how to shoot and be a team member.

    People will think dropping Ben is no different than agreeing with the ways of Crawford but that is not true. They were in a relatively safe location with a large number of people who could have afforded the handicap of sick or young people. We are a small group and every member needs to pull their weight.

  • I hate the idea of doing things over again. I only replayed the game in a different slot so I could get Kenny to come with me in Ep. 5. My rule, unless you start from the beginning, don't change your choices. The most annoying thing, I was one of the few people who respected Ben all the time, even after getting three killed, one abandoned, and one shot (Molly).

  • @HiggsBoson2142 said: I hate the idea of doing things over again. I only replayed the game in a different slot so I could get Kenny to come with me in Ep. 5. My rule, unless you start from the beginning, don't change your choices

    I agree completely, I kind of wish there hadn't been multiple save slots released until Season 1 was finished. I played through naturally, made some mistakes and was happy with that, then Telltale fucked me with their game wiping bug.

  • @TheNNerdGamer said: Ben... I'd say people that let him go can go smell a rat's ass.
    I mean you regret it, but I honestly when he said:"LET GO DAMMIT!" My heart changed from hating Ben to regretting it so i pulled him up, he wuz willing his life to save others.
    only men with balls of steel would do that

    He was a complete fuck up! He even knew it himself... So I let him fall down...
    His fuck up cost at least 3 lifes... and almost killed the rest of the group in Ep 4. I'm just happy that he is gone!

  • @aperose said: I dropped Ben because I believe that morality has to change as the situation does and this is a completely different world than the pre-ZA one. Ben, not once, not twice but multiple times screws up. And the problem is that he just doesn't LISTEN. Ben is not a team player. He has enjoyed the protection from the group but done nothing to earn his stay at all. Let's count just a few of the things he has done wrong:

    - deal with the bandits without consulting the group (he had no right to take our supplies and give them to the bandits and with proper warning we would've been much more prepared to take them on).

    - not admitting that it was him and then admitting it at the worst possible time. Once again, ruining the team dynamic and jeopardizing LIVES!

    - not protecting Clementine - not just in the street - but also not keeping an eye on her and letting her get out of the house. He is completely reckless.

    - removing the hatchet from the door. Granted, the zombies may not have been there at the moment and maybe Lee or even Kenny would've been smarter to mention why there was a weapon in the door to Ben. BUT how dumb can you be??

    All true more or less but does making mistakes justify killing him? As I've said already, what's in the past is done. If you drop him, you're doing it on the assumption that he'll fuck up again. That's a rather big ethical choice and is exactly what Crawford was about, ending a life because it MIGHT be a threat.

  • It's just like you said. Ben pushed all my buttons and gave me all the reasons to leave him for dead. Instead, when the scene came up and I had an option to keep him alive, I kept him alive. I looked back and thought of Duck and Katjaa, Larry, Doug. Lily, even. I didn't wanna lose anybody else. The world has gone to shit. It's no use at all to keep killing friends.

    If he screws things up in EP 5, my conscience is clear. I've been the better man. I only wish he can make up for all his mistakes, for the sake of Clem.

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