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Episode 5 Disappointment (vent here) **SPOILERS**

posted by MaroubraDave on - last edited - Viewed by 4.9K users

Telltale,
Firstly i would like to say great game and a fantastic concept. However the ending i would say is not so great. While it is very well made and certainly tugs at your heart strings, I didn't play the game and wait for the ending only to find out i die anyway... Now i know people may argue that you didn't see lee actually turn so maybe he will be ok, but the fact you left it this way is really a let down to the series. I was really looking forward to the last episode but in all honesty it just brought me down and i kinda wish i stopped playing at episode 4. :confused: There should be an alternative ending where you can at least live... Just my opinion.

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  • @kirby18 said: - no tension? Im sorry, I was gonna list out all the "tension" moments but there is ONE IN EVERY SCENE ! From when Ben argues with Kenny to obviously all the walker scenes. Maybe its not tension for you but certainly this episode had more tension than any before.

    I've been satisfied with it in every episode except for this one. For instance, even the simple things in the previous episode like strolling through the house because Clementine is gone, the kidnapper suddenly showing up behind you and getting jumped by the zombie out of nowhere really stuck with me.- Well Clementine is BARELY in this episode and when you save her theres no time to have a one on one heart to heart convo about her parents. She saw them as walkers, so I think she understands.Yes, but she's a major character and always talked about it in the previous episodes.- Once again same as the last point, howd he follow us ? I dont know but it is completely possible. You have to understand this guys is a nut and after his family died the only thing he had and was driving him was revenge. VERY similiar to the only thing Lee has is Clem. Also once again, that was a extremely creepy conversation. I dont know if were playing the same game.I don't really mind the following part, he was just obsessed, the logistics might be sketchy, but I can live with that. I had a feeling they were intending it to be creepy, but I wasn't feeling it.
    - HOW IS THAT LAME AT ALL? I had the alternative death with Ben (which sounds a lot better) but either way a great ending to Kenny. Here is a guy that has nothing left to live for and is never helping ANYBODY. Then he finally realizes it and sacrifices his life for the group. The intention was great, but the way in which it happened left me unsatisfied.

  • @Bralef said: What happens to Kenny if Ben isn't around?

    Lee drops the walkie talkie in a hole in the roof because of Kenny, Christa jumps in to get it, gets surrounded by zombies, Kenny jumps in to lift her up and disappears.

  • I agree.
    The episode is short because Telltale really wanted to give us the message.
    "This is the end of the world, there is no time left for backstories. You're not a murderer or a widow, a homless dude.. You're alive and that's all that matters."

    But it was because that was all that mattered, that I became pretty senseless to it ._. ...


    Still loved the game tho!
    I'm not bashing the game, just expressing my opinion!
    And I'm respecting everybody who has a different one!

  • @Derpen said: Seriously people still use this line?

    Yes some people may think that, but for many that is no where near the reason why they disliked it. For a lot its the lack of choice....which I'm tired of hearing people tell me the game has choice

    In Mass Effect Shepard's death was not thematically suited for every playthrough and the ending had a lot of issues beyond that.

    In The Walking Dead I did feel Lee's death was thematically appropriate. The scene was well done, but I was expecting Clem, Kenny, Ben, Omid and Christa's stories to end differently based on all your choices and discussions with them. Having their fates end up being exactly the same regardless just made their deaths weaker.

    Why have choices at all if they ended up having no real impact on the ultimate narrative. Not just the ending, but all of Episode 5. I was fine up to Episode 4 - but having it end up that no matter what I do in episode 5 it all plays out the same just makes the whole exercise kind of pointless and discourages going back to play again to see how the story changes. Because ultimately it doesn't change and as such it doesn't really tailor itself at all.

  • @shedim said: How about making zombie apocalypse movies/games/comics where everyone ends up dead withing the first 5 minutes/pages of the movie/game/comics, then? Why bother with a story or fleshing out characters, if they end up dying anyway?

    Star Wars had happy endings even before Disney became the overlord and as far as I recall the galaxy there was actually a pretty dark and depressing place and a whole bunch of situations were pretty dire. Imagine Star Wars with Luke Skywalker dying in the end because of the mysterios Sandpeople space flu, BEN3PO getting half of the characters killed and R2D2 as the only survivor, shedding sparks because his master died and the poor robot had to put Lee Skywalker out of his misery before turns into one of the Sandpeople and starts going on a rampage. Of course there could be another scene after the credits where R2Dmentine notices 2 silhouettes turning towards her that could be either Brendarth StJohn and her pet rancor or Princess Christa and Ombacca as a cliffhanger for "The Empire strikes back". Awesome ending, right? Hey, it's grimdark future, so what did you expect, right?


    Jesus Christ, who the fudge said there can't be a happy ending for one season in a zombie apocalypse game that could easily have a variety of different endings, only if your choices did really matter? That'd be something fresh and not just like the other billion generic main character dies type of endings. I just wish we had the choice, or that one of our decisions actually mattered in the end. Like chopping off your arm having Lee survive the episode. What could be wrong with that? Rick ain't dead yet, after all and he is right in the middle of a zombie apocalypse!

    Welcome to The Walking Dead! No such thing as a happy ending.

  • Absolutely masterful series. That said, I do have a harsh review. I loved the episode, but I seriously need to point out some problems.

    I have six main complaints with episode 5

    1) WAY too short.
    2) It felt rushed/Campman's motivations.
    3) Lee's arm.
    4) Lee's death/zombification.
    5) The epilogue was horrible.
    6) The concept of "choice".

    1) Is it just me? Or is this the shortest episode? I mean, I railroaded through this in what seemed to be maybe an hour and a half? Most episodes reach over 2 hours. Episode 3 had to be the longest. Hoping for a longer experience.

    2) Also the way the story wraps up was rushed. I mean, Campman's motivation made little sense to me. Sure, he says you stealing the stuff led to his family's demise, but was that really enough for him to go through with his Rube Goldberg idea? And how was he able to track them down in the city, Clem didn't have the radio with her. Why the fuck wasn't the Marsh Hotel filled with zombies? And what the fuck was Campman going to do if Lee came with everyone? How could he have possibly beaten Lee, Kenny, Christa, Omid, and Ben? Especially if they were armed? Waaaaaay too many plot holes. Very, very sloppy writing. I would've gladly waited another month or two for a better written story.

    3) I didn't cut my arm off, because in the back of my mind I knew it was absolutely pointless. And low and behold, it was. My friend messages me saying he got Lee's arm amputated and he STILL dies. Thanks for being complete dicks with that one, TellTale, teasing a possible determinant death. Also, Kenny and the others seemed to know cutting it off might help. My question is, why the fuck didn't they suggest that when I first showed them the bite?

    4) I was expecting Lee to die. But the way people were hyping the ending up made me think Clem was going to die too. Not that I wanted that. It's the last thing I wanted. It's just people were saying this was the most heartwrenching thing they've ever seen. So I'm like "Clem must be the one that dies". I mean, everyone loves Clem and that's the only death I expect people to have such a strong reaction too. I love Lee, but still. I guess the fact that I expected Lee to die took a bit of the emotional sting away. I got so attached to him and Clem. I'm glad to see Clem alive, but knowing they'll never be together again makes me much more angry than it does sad.

    5) The epilogue is complete trash. I hate that TellTale keeps trying to be ambiguous. First Lilly. Then Molly. Then Vernon and his piece of shit group. Then Kenny's "death". And then Clementine. Is it too much to give the player some closure? I mean, it is a season, but from what TellTale was saying after the game's success, I don't think they had a season 2 planned. So was this cliffhanger ending supposed to happen or was it added in at the last minute to hook people for season 2?

    6) Choice never mattered with this game. You can feed me that "the theme is helplessness/hopelessness" stuff, but that's some bullshit. It was cost effective and time saving. Period. I was really expecting them to come through and give us multiple endings for this one episode. I could tolerate things like Carley dying and Ben's lackluster death if you save him, as long as they gave me the option to end the game in a couple different ways, but no. It's like being able to choose different types of fast food. You may get a different taste, but it all ends in a heart attack regardless.

    I know I'm coming down hard on a downloadable game that probably didn't have much funding and resources behind it, but TellTale should've never suggested that your choices actually matter and therefore have a profound effect on the story when they really didn't mean anything. Doug, Larry, Carley, Ben, Duck, Katjaa, Chuck, and Lee are doomed no matter WHAT you do. Molly, Lilly, Christa, Omid, Kenny, and Clementine's fates are unknown thanks to a literary cop-out (ambiguous endings).

    They should've just said it's a story and you're along for the ride, but instead it gives the phony illusion of choice. We can argue all day whether it's intentional or not.

    I really hope season 2 is much, much more ambitious and far-reaching. Hope Clem, Lilly, and Christa and Omid come back. Kenny, if he's alive too.

    That said, I still adore the game. It's going down in my top 20 favorite video games of all time.

  • @ieatbrains said: 2nd play. I just laugh arm or no arm, Lee still uses one arm throughout the whole episode. This episode was a let down for me.

    looool yep. Was a poor episode, I didn't pay for any episodes after the first, played them at my friends. I had a feeling the choices would be paper-thin.

  • @Doctanian said: Absolutely masterful series. That said, I do have a harsh review. I loved the episode, but I seriously need to point out some problems.

    I have six main complaints with episode 5

    1) WAY too short.
    2) It felt rushed/Campman's motivations.
    3) Lee's arm.
    4) Lee's death/zombification.
    5) The epilogue was horrible.
    6) The concept of "choice".

    1) Is it just me? Or is this the shortest episode? I mean, I railroaded through this in what seemed to be maybe an hour and a half? Most episodes reach over 2 hours. Episode 3 had to be the longest. Hoping for a longer experience.

    2) Also the way the story wraps up was rushed. I mean, Campman's motivation made little sense to me. Sure, he says you stealing the stuff led to his family's demise, but was that really enough for him to go through with his Rube Goldberg idea? And how was he able to track them down in the city, Clem didn't have the radio with her. Why the fuck wasn't the Marsh Hotel filled with zombies? And what the fuck was Campman going to do if Lee came with everyone? How could he have possibly beaten Lee, Kenny, Christa, Omid, and Ben? Especially if they were armed? Waaaaaay too many plot holes. Very, very sloppy writing. I would've gladly waited another month or two for a better written story.

    3) I didn't cut my arm off, because in the back of my mind I knew it was absolutely pointless. And low and behold, it was. My friend messages me saying he got Lee's arm amputated and he STILL dies. Thanks for being complete dicks with that one, TellTale, teasing a possible determinant death. Also, Kenny and the others seemed to know cutting it off might help. My question is, why the fuck didn't they suggest that when I first showed them the bite?

    4) I was expecting Lee to die. But the way people were hyping the ending up made me think Clem was going to die too. Not that I wanted that. It's the last thing I wanted. It's just people were saying this was the most heartwrenching thing they've ever seen. So I'm like "Clem must be the one that dies". I mean, everyone loves Clem and that's the only death I expect people to have such a strong reaction too. I love Lee, but still. I guess the fact that I expected Lee to die took a bit of the emotional sting away. I got so attached to him and Clem. I'm glad to see Clem alive, but knowing they'll never be together again makes me much more angry than it does sad.

    5) The epilogue is complete trash. I hate that TellTale keeps trying to be ambiguous. First Lilly. Then Molly. Then Vernon and his piece of shit group. Then Kenny's "death". And then Clementine. Is it too much to give the player some closure? I mean, it is a season, but from what TellTale was saying after the game's success, I don't think they had a season 2 planned. So was this cliffhanger ending supposed to happen or was it added in at the last minute to hook people for season 2?

    6) Choice never mattered with this game. You can feed me that "the theme is helplessness/hopelessness" stuff, but that's some bullshit. It was cost effective and time saving. Period. I was really expecting them to come through and give us multiple endings for this one episode. I could tolerate things like Carley dying and Ben's lackluster death if you save him, as long as they gave me the option to end the game in a couple different ways, but no. It's like being able to choose different types of fast food. You may get a different taste, but it all ends in a heart attack regardless.

    I know I'm coming down hard on a downloadable game that probably didn't have much funding and resources behind it, but TellTale should've never suggested that your choices actually matter and therefore have a profound effect on the story when they really didn't mean anything. Doug, Larry, Carley, Ben, Duck, Katjaa, Chuck, and Lee are doomed no matter WHAT you do. Molly, Lilly, Christa, Omid, Kenny, and Clementine's fates are unknown thanks to a literary cop-out (ambiguous endings).

    They should've just said it's a story and you're along for the ride, but instead it gives the phony illusion of choice. We can argue all day whether it's intentional or not.

    I really hope season 2 is much, much more ambitious and far-reaching. Hope Clem, Lilly, and Christa and Omid come back. Kenny, if he's alive too.

    That said, I still adore the game. It's going down in my top 20 favorite video games of all time.

    Very well said. "Choices are full of crap"

  • UGH... It makes me soooooooooo frustrated seing people say choices don't matter. They do. Like I always say, you can have a set destination and a few points to pass, but how you get there is your choice. In my game, Kenny died protecting Ben because he felt he owed ben that. That didn't happen in everyones. they could have hated Kenny and not felt for him.

  • @cojemo said: UGH... It makes me soooooooooo frustrated seing people say choices don't matter. They do. Like I always say, you can have a set destination and a few points to pass, but how you get there is your choice. In my game, Kenny died protecting Ben because he felt he owed ben that. That didn't happen in everyones. they could have hated Kenny and not felt for him.

    But the difference is cosmetic. Because the alternative is Kenny dies saving Christa. Regardless of your decisions, Kenny dies. At the exact same point in the episode.

    Also it all comes to the same outcome - Clem looking for Christa and Omid.

    The changes really aren't as big as you think they are. You still lose the same people at the same points. Any "choices" are ultimately surface only.

    Hence the disappointment.

    Edit: To put it another way, the game ends up only paying lip service to your choices. The Stranger still blames Lee, nobody who dies can actually be saved by a different choice or string of choices. It's all smoke and mirrors. The story is exactly the same by the time it reaches it's conclusion. A story is not just the journey, but where that journey takes the characters.

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