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Episode 5 Disappointment (vent here) **SPOILERS**

posted by MaroubraDave on - last edited - Viewed by 3.0K users

Telltale,
Firstly i would like to say great game and a fantastic concept. However the ending i would say is not so great. While it is very well made and certainly tugs at your heart strings, I didn't play the game and wait for the ending only to find out i die anyway... Now i know people may argue that you didn't see lee actually turn so maybe he will be ok, but the fact you left it this way is really a let down to the series. I was really looking forward to the last episode but in all honesty it just brought me down and i kinda wish i stopped playing at episode 4. :confused: There should be an alternative ending where you can at least live... Just my opinion.

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  • @Dave of Canada said: The entire point of the season was Lee's redemption story, whether or not Lee was truly a bad man and the circumstances surrounding his survival and taking care of Clementine--his death was the only way it was going to go down.

    You call it disappointing that you couldn't live but you're supposed to want to feel like you have an option of surviving, it's why I cut Lee's hand off and desperately acted in denial throughout the entire episode.

    If you thought Lee was going to walk into the sunset with Clementine at the end of the episode, you're (un)dead wrong. This isn't Disney's The Walking Dead.


    Well Rick and Carl are still alive after 103 issues to best of my knowledge so it's not unrealistic to imagine Lee making it through 5 episodes. This being said I expected Lee to die but he did not go out with a bang as others have said. He died failing. He will never know if Clementine made it to safety. So where is his redemption? As far as he is concerned he failed to get Clementine back to Christa and Omid which was is mission objective once he told them to meet him at the train station. Even if Lee died he should have still been able to die succeeding his goal. Even the guy in the Dawn of the dead movie was able to help the group get to the boat before he died and Will Smith's character in I am legend died knowing he helped Anna and the kid get away. Lee even looks like he feels he has failed.

    Cole Magrath dies in Infamous. I didn't have a problem with it because through his death he saved humanity and died knowing this. The same for Nariko in Heavenly sword where she died knowing she saved her people. After everything, Lee just dies. Yeah he saved Clementine from the kidnapper who was clearly crazy but he didn't finish his mission objective of getting her to safety and depending on how you played the game you may not even save her from the guy in the hotel, in those cases she saves you from him. The ending could and should have been so much more.

  • I didn't like How Ben was a bigger piece in the final one then we were lead to believe. I dislike how none of our options to decide who comes with us changes who lives or dies. Or that you can't change the outcome. I expected this to be the best tell tale game yet. But I'd rather our choices have a bigger impact.

  • @aguyuno said: Walking dead tv show, comics, and this game... they've all been pretty depressing, think about it. It's reality based - Lee was effed, he just had one last thing.

    No, I thought the ending was actually perfect. My only disappointment was the lack of seeing Molly at any point. Not even zombie Molly or something, which is REALLY annoying considering you do see zombie Andrea at one point.


    How was the ending perfect when Lee failed? Clementine survived but Lee doesn't know that because he wasn't responsible for getting her to safety. He didn't reunite her with Omid and Christa which was his only goal by the end of the game. Where is his redemption? He goes to the grave not knowing if Clementine made it out of the city. Come to think of we don't even know how safe she is when we see her last and won't know for a very long time. So there is no real sense of ressolve. If the season was tied up and conclusive the ending would have been good and rewarding.

  • @thebigbad said: The end of episode 4 made it pretty obvious that that was the direction things were heading. Now I'm not gonna lie, I had Lee chop off his arm and I hoped that it would be enough to save him, but alas it was not to be. Ever since the end of episode 4 I was pretty much of the mindset that Lee HAD to save Clementine before it was too late, and he did so. He died a hero in my book and while I would have loved for Lee to survive, I am perfectly content with the ending we got.

    Also, this is the Walking Dead...chances of happy endings are never going to be great.


    I don't know. Yeah the walking dead isn't usually about happy endings, but the comics aren't all doom and gloom. They have victories aswell as tradgedies and the protagonist for the comics is still alive after 103 issues. I didn't have a problem with Lee dying but the way it happened was underwhelming. Clementine survived but Lee doesn't know that because he wasn't responsible for getting her to safety. He didn't reunite her with Omid and Christa which was his only goal by the end of the game. Where is his redemption? He goes to the grave not knowing if Clementine made it out of the city. Come to think of we don't even know how safe she is when we see her last and won't know for a very long time. So there is no real sense of ressolve. If the season was tied up and conclusive the ending would have been good and rewarding. I would have felt better if I saw Clementine board the train with Christa and Omid at least, considering Telltale chose not to have Lee escort Clementine to the train, which is what I would have wanted and considered a rewarding ending for the time invested waiting for these episodes.

    I hope season 2's ending will be rewarding even if it means waiting till 2014 to play it.

  • @Destmond said: I can see why a few people are disappointed by the way things went in episode 5. But all it really seems like to me is "This didn't end how I wanted it to and that annoys me". :3

    From the very beginning I felt like the game's "true" focus was Clementine. Lee did have his own story, and playing as Lee, every player is going to explore his backstory and generally relate to him more.
    But Lee was Clem's protector, from episode 3 onward it was made clear you could never be 100% sure that everything was going to be okay and that Lee was basically preparing Clementine for how difficult surviving was to be.

    Maybe I'm just a little biased because I expected a sad ending from having gotten used to The Walking Dead comics, but that's just how The Walking Dead stories go. It's the apocalypse, things are tragic, and unfair, and if every dramatic, messed up, terrifying moment in the game series existed only to lead to a one in a million chance that Lee lives and they both walk away, it would defeat the whole point.



    Tl;dr version: It's a zombie apocalypse, Clementine survived. That's a happy enough ending for me.


    You say that but Rick Grimes and his son Carl are still alive after 103 issues. Carl has has been shot in his body and had quarter of his face shot off. Rick has had his hand chopped off and been shot in the chest and in his stomach and they are still alive. Rick Grimes is the protagonist of the walking dead. If Kirkman killed of Rick I personally wouldn't continue reading the comics and i'm sure many would feel the same way.

    The walking dead comics are shown through Rick's eyes. We don't see the zombie apocalypse until Rick wakes up from the coma. Likewise the game shows the apocalypse through Lee's eyes. He was the protagonist. Clementine is to Lee what Carl is to Rick. I don't think it would be any less realistic for Lee and Clementine to survive 9 episodes (season 2 is meant to be 4 episodes long) than it is for Rick and Carl to survive the 300 episodes that Kirkman has planned for the walking dead comic series, considering that 100 issues equates to only just over a year in Rick Grimes's time in this zombie apocalyptic world.

    I would have preferred a more conclusive ending. It still wouldn't be a happy ending because Lee died but it would have been a conclusive one if we saw Clementine reunited with Christa and Omid and board the train, explainning how Lee died after saving her life.

  • @Xebioz said: Yeah, but the point of having a "Your choices matter" game, is for replayability. For Heavy Rain I have no clue how long I've spent on that game. Everytime I play it something is different than last time I played it. And before haters attack me I know that this has a fraction of the money that Heavy Rain had behind it, but then don't sell it as a "Your choices matter" game.

    Again, as an adventure game it's great. As an interactive story it isn't.


    I agree 100%

  • @JamesM98 said: The ending was both good and bad for me.

    The way Lee died in that room, handcuffed to the radiator was very good. Just thinking about him lying there as the story continues if very 'The Walking Dead'.

    I didn't like a few things, but the Stranger was the biggest disappointment. When he was telling Lee his sob story, I thought Lee was going to get up and slap him with his good hand then walk out with Clementine. He just didn't seem legit to me.

    There was a lot of potential with that character. Maybe he could've been charged by her parents to save Clem, maybe he could've been part of some other group. He might have had a kid in Savannah he was looking after and genuinely thought he was more capable, or maybe he was just a murderous psychopath?

    Instead he was the moron that abandoned his car. Right, ok.

    Great game though, gutted we have to wait for Season 2. I feel like I'm always waiting for such small doses!


    Yeah the stranger on the radio plot device definitely screwed up the brilliant flow of the game. I had so many issues with the identity of the man on the radio. There is no way that the stranger could have got to Savannah before Lee when Lee was on a train, the stranger's car had no fuel and he wouldn't of known Clementine was going to Savannah until she knew which wasn't until after they got the train moving.

    The stranger explained that a week before the events of episode 5 he was normal and had a family, yet during that week he just so happened to have a similar radio to Clementine and manage to connect to her frequency a week later and plan to stalk Lee's group for revenge and to rescue Clementine because of all the things Clementine told him Lee had done in the game. Here's the kicker in my play through Clementine never saw me do anything bad. I didn't kill anyone in front of her. The only thing the stranger could use to support his case about me not being a good man was that I saved Carly instead of Doug. He didn't even know Doug so that shouldn't of been enough to make him see me as a monster and want to punish me. It made me feel like all the good decision's I made were for nothing because Clementine tells the stranger everything iv'e done and he views it as negative and wants to punish me for it regardless.

    I would of preferred if I was able to follow the choice I made in episode 3 to look for her parents. Most of episode 4 was about getting supplies for the boat which ends up getting stolen in episode 5 anyway, again making me feel what was the point to that episode. It was fun to play but an episode filler nonetheless. Episode 3 gave you the choice to plan what you would make a priority when arriving at Savannah; a boat or looking for Clementine's parents. I chose to look for her parents but was made to focus on looking for a boat instead when episode 4 began. The game was fun but it gives the illusion of choice unlike in Heavy Rain where your actions actually make a difference to the games ending and determine who lives and who dies. I preferred the first 3 episodes.

    The focus should have stayed on searching for Clementine's parents and finding a safe haven. When the stranger sat me down and explainned why he was punishing me he didn't have anything on me. Clementine had told him everything I had done whilst being with her from episode 1-5. The stranger should have seen me as a saint based on my choices. I didn't steal his food from the car, I didn't kill any of the st john brothers. I didn't help Kenny kill Larry. All he had to criticize me for was the fact that I took Clementine to Crawford, I left Lilly on the road and I saved Carly over Doug. He claimed I saved her because she was pretty and a had a gun. I know that was Telltale speaking to us through him at that point. But that's just it, I didn't save her purely for those reasons. I saved her because I bonded more with her in episode 1 than I did with Doug. Had the choice of been between Kenny and Carly, she still would have been pretty and still would have had a gun, yet I would have bonded more with Kenny since Lee had spent a whole day with him by then. In that case I would have chosen Kenny over Carly. Telltale gave Carly far more script lines, and scenes than Doug. She was involved in all the major arguments and decissions once Lee met that group. Saving her was a no brainner. Then Telltale punish us for choosing the character that they had fleshed out more so the kidnapper uses that as a reason for punishing Lee. Ridiculous. That was Telltale's feable attempt to make it seem like choices matter and there are consequences for our actions.

    The guy even said that he wanted to punish the peole that was with Lee, refering to Kenny and his wife, blaming them for the death of his wife and son due to them looting his food, yet he wants to kill Lee because of things he felt he had done to people he didn't even know or care about.

    By the end I felt that there was no reward for the way I played the game. I could have been an arse hole, treated Clementine like shit, killed everone for the fun of it and still got the same ending. Ben will still die in the alley way if he was in ep 5, Kenny will still die in the alley if ben was not in ep 5. Lee will still die in the locked room at Clementine's hand and she will still leave the city by herself and see 2 figures in the distance. I don't see why Telltale coudn't have had multiple endings considering this episode was much shorter than all of the others. I had all the group members with me expecting to get the longest game because there was more characters to talk to, yet the game finished in 1 and half hours. I was hoping that the episode would have been the longest. In comics milestone issues like TWD 100 are often double sized additions. I expected the episode to be longer than episode 1 at least. I found episode 5's ending under whelming. Considering we will have to wait a very long time before season 2 comes out I would have wanted the episode to end with some ressolve, at least to see Clementine board the train with Christa and Omid and a longer video seqence. The Tekken games have longer video seqences when you complete them.

  • @Gerudan said: You still have to give the player the feeling of some kind of accomplishment. Now Lee has completely failed, he might as well shot himself in the head with the shotgun from the beginning, what difference would it make? Clem is all alone, hungry, thirsty and will probably die from exhaustion in the next couple of hours. We don't even know who the two silhouettes at the end were. There really is no excuse for such a stupid cliffhanger ending.

    Oh look, we will make a second season, so you don't need an ending for the first one, because that is, how good writing works.


    I agree 100% You should always give the gamers closure at the end of a game because no one knows the future. Shenmue 2 was an awesome game that had the worst cliff hanger and they canned the sequel so we will never know what became of Ryo Hazuki. Dungeons and dragons was one of the best cartoons in the 80's and it got cancelled before the final episode, so the kids in that cartoon never ever made it home but stayed stuck in the other realm. My name is earl and the Reaper are another two shows that were cancelled before giving the viewers any closure. They all finished with cliff hangers and there was no ressolve.

    At least in the Uncharted games each one is wrapped up and concluded. Even in the walking dead tv show the seasons end conclusively with a sense of ressolve showing the survivors escape their immediate danger and regroup on the road.

    As far as i'm concerned not only is it risky for Telltale to end the season with such a ambiguous cliff hanger since there is no guarantee that season 2 will see the light of day it is also a finger up to all of us that have waited to see this story completed. I think that this level of ambiguity is o.k for a novel or tv show/movie but not for a video game where you invest more of your time and effort.

  • @Flona1972 said: i was very disappointed by this last episode.. I loved the ones before, all of them but honestly i think this one is really bad.. only 2 hours and half to play it, not a lot of surprises and this end...

    i really thought clementime would come back to lee with the couple after she escaped and i was really surprised to see the credit straight away after she left lee.. she leaves and there is the credits, that's it!!!! i was sure something will happens after this and it was the end of the game!!?? o_O

    and they could have done this episode as interesting than the others.. what happened to her after this? ( i didn't see her in the countryside) what happened to lee? where are the couple? there was something weird with them and i didn't really trust them to take care of clementine so we should be happy with this end with all this questions left? it's like a very good film with a quick shitty end who completly ruins all the scenario.. i guess there will be another season and lee will be alive if it's like in the film but would have been great to do the last episode more interesting and less predictable compared to the other ones and to say it's not really the end...


    Core how did you manage to stretch the game that long? When I played it was only 90 minutes long and the youtube live stream was 90 minutes as well. The episode was way too short, shorter than the first one.

  • @thebigbad said: I can't for the life of me figure out exactly what it is you wanted to see. Could you maybe elaborate a little? Because as far as the Walking Dead goes, Clem was safe the last time we saw her, though granted the two mysterious figures does put up a question mark but that's a hook for season two...nothing wrong with that.


    Personally, for a finale I would of liked a sense of closure and resolve. It's bad enough knowing that after all of Lee's efforts he failed misserably but to not see his wish fulfilled, for Clementine to be reunited with Christa sucks big time. How did he fail? You might ask. Lee's primary objective when he seperated from Christa and Omid was to get Clementine back and reunite her with Christa before he died. He died not knowing if this was ever accomplished. We don't even know if this was accomplished. In fact it was not accomplished. It may happen in season 2 but until then Clementine's fate is in limbo. That is not rewarding for the delays we had endured between playing these episodes. Telltale are practically flippin us the bird. Even in the interviews their laughing and relishing the fact that they have pulled the rug from under neath us which is clearly how they get their kicks.

    Lee did not get Clementine out of the city she saved her self, she escaped the zombie horde on her own and was probably at more risk when she left Lee than she was before he found her in the hotel when you consider she had to get through a zombie herd. As the gamer I didn't feel like I saved her. The phrase out of the frying pan into the fire comes to mind. It was like Moses taking the Hebrews out of Egypt only to loose some of them in the wilderness. (in some cases,depending how you play it's actually Clementine that saves you since she shoots the kidnapper if you reliquish your weapon and some how manages to drag you away from the zombie horde when you pass out)I wanted to be the hero that Clementine could depend on and deliver her to the safety of Christa like an athlete passing on a torch or baton, not for this little girl to have to shoot me in the face and get through a zombie herd by herself. Even if she is alive her mental state would be fucked. Rick Grimes endured less in quick successions and we all saw him break down talking on an unplugged phone, then there's Michonne who talks to her dead boyfriend. It would be unrealistic for her to be normal after this. Sophia was about her age and she ended up repressing memories of her mum's death, calling Glen and Maggie mum and dad she was hardly normal after what she had seen.

    What I wanted to see would have been a lengthy video sequence, maybe even flash backs whilst seeing Clementine leaving the city, seeing her run to Christa cuddling her whilst crying and telling her how Lee saved her from the man in the hotel/tried to save her from the man in the hotel and Christa reassuring her she would be o.k and telling her Lee wanted her to look after her, but ultimatley I would have wanted to see them on the train leaving Savannah. That still would have been a walking dead ending. In fact it would have been more bleak and depressing than any of the comics considering that Rick Grimes, the comics protagonist still lives and the games protagonist does not.

    As far as the "hook for season 2" goes that is a risky way to go since there is no guarantee that season 2 will see the light of day. I say this because if history has taught anything we can never take anything for granted. You should always give the gamers closure at the end of a game because no one knows the future. Shenmue 2 was an awesome game that had the worst cliff hanger and they canned the sequel so we will never know what became of Ryo Hazuki. Dungeons and dragons was one of the best cartoons in the 80's and it got cancelled before the final episode, so the kids in that cartoon never ever made it home but stayed stuck in the other realm. My name is earl and the Reaper are another two shows that were cancelled before giving the viewers any closure. They all finished with cliff hangers and there was no ressolve.

    it risky for Telltale to end the season with such a ambiguous cliff hanger since there is no guarantee that season 2 will see the light of day it is also a finger up to all of us that have waited to see this story completed. I think that this level of ambiguity is o.k for a novel or tv show/movie but not for a video game where you invest more of your time and effort.

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