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Episode 5 Disappointment (vent here) **SPOILERS**

posted by MaroubraDave on - last edited - Viewed by 3.0K users

Telltale,
Firstly i would like to say great game and a fantastic concept. However the ending i would say is not so great. While it is very well made and certainly tugs at your heart strings, I didn't play the game and wait for the ending only to find out i die anyway... Now i know people may argue that you didn't see lee actually turn so maybe he will be ok, but the fact you left it this way is really a let down to the series. I was really looking forward to the last episode but in all honesty it just brought me down and i kinda wish i stopped playing at episode 4. :confused: There should be an alternative ending where you can at least live... Just my opinion.

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  • @BlankCanvasDJ said: For the journey, not the ending. Some of the greatest stories ever told have tragic, hopeless endings. Should Romeo and Juliet have lived happily ever after? Should Gatsby have won the love of his life? This was a hopeless story from the very beginning (if you didn't think so, you've never read or watched The Walking Dead) and the fact that Lee managed to find any redemption by the end is an accomplishment.

    It's not a game you win.


    But Romeo and Juliet was conclusive. You knew the fate of the characters by the end of the book. There was no ambiguity. You knew they were dead and why. Therefore the ending of Romeo Juliet is more fulfilling than the ending of the no time left episode, also when you read Romeo and Juliet you weren't given choices for what the characters did. I don't think a book is comparable to a game considering you invest both effort and time playing a game you only invest time in reading a book unless the person is mentally challanged in which case Romeo and Juliet isn't the book for them.

    As far as Lee getting redemption i'm not sure that I agree he did. He died unable to keep his promise of not leaving Clementine alone which he made when he left her house and he didn't successfully reunite her with Christa which was his goal when he left Christa to find her. He died not knowing her fate. It's not just a tragic end for Lee it's a failing one. He couldn't continue to keep Clementine safe so she saved herself from the city's horde, escaping to the city's outskirts on her own. Lee did not play as big a part in her escape as he should have. He only got her half way. She did the rest and would have had to go through far more zombies than the one he helped her defeat before he died.

  • I wouldn't exclude lee and Clem surviving together as long as there's hope; that's just the way it went down. I was sure left with the sensation of no answers or lack of some closure so to speak; not knowing what happens to clem. i would really want to know.

  • @Chuck's Guitar said: I have to say, after hearing that the tentative release time for ep. 5 would be in December, I was worried that it might feel rushed with a November date. My fears were right, obviously. If you thought Lee had any chance of surviving, you're delusional at best. What kills me is that the ending felt so terribly rushed. There was no real epilogue - and a dialogue-less scene with two unidentified characters doesn't count, either.

    What's the point of saving Ben in episode 4 if he inevitably dies in 5? I was waiting for him to redeem himself ("I just want to help") and I had such strong confidence invested in him only for him to be snuffed out like a nobody. Towards the end I expected Kenny and Ben (or at least Kenny) to show up, Kenny having had pulled a Daryl and using his last round to make a walker "blanket" to spare his and Ben's life.

    Why include the option to amputate Lee's arm if it ultimately changes nothing? I went through with the arm chop, though disturbing, I felt it necessary to do so to see my final mission through. I'm surprised that Lilly and a few other characters didn't make a final appearance, as well.

    Campman was a pretty big disappointment as well. While his introduction teaches an extremely valuable lesson about "even the small things can come back around", he just didn't have a convincing leg to stand on in terms of being a believable antagonist. I honestly wasn't expecting a character of such irrelevance to be the "man behind the mask". All in all, great series, but it's very obvious the final episode had less of a cooking time than the other four. The synergy and emotional connections of the previous episodes were more or less nonexistent. Very disappointing.

    RIP Lee Everett.


    That's just it I didn't feel that "Campman"teaches an extremely valuable lesson about how even the small things can come back around because I didn't do anything that should have had negitive repercussions, since I was aware that Clementine was always watching. I made a point not do kill anyone but let others do the killing. I wanted Ben dead but chose not to kill him because I knew Kenny would expose me and tell Clementine. I wanted to kill the st John brothers but knew that they were in no position to escape the farm and they were going to be eaten by zombies. I didn't take the food because Clementine didn't want us to and I didn't agree to kill Larry because Clementine was watching, the same way Rick didn't want to kill Randall in front of Carl in the show. The only thing "Campman" could accuse me of was choosing to save Carly instead of Doug which was a lame reason to conclude he was a better role model and carer for Clementine than me. Really I was being punished for what the others in the group had done, he commented on Kenny and Kat when he was saying he needed to rescue Clementine from us, yet he was adamant that I needed to be punished. What he was saying didn't fit with how I had been playing the game. I first noticed this in episode 4 when Vernon switched on me. I didn't overtly lie about having medical supplies or threaten him, I reasoned with him, referring to Clementine as being my daughter. I didn't say she was my biological daughter. So I didn't lie. Even Bree approved of me and spoke cival because I didn't lie or threaten Vernon. He was fine at the end of the game and then there was some screen glitching and his mannerism completely changed towards me and he started accusing me of being a bad carer and said Clementine wasn't my daughter even though no one confirmed that to him from the group.

  • @Pellet said: to much time had passed b4 u cut it, hints the name no time left



    Seriously, this is bullshit. You have absolutely no clue about the infection, how it spreads, whnether it's a virus, bacteria or space magic. All you know is that people only turn if they die from whatever causes that don't damage the brain/head or when they get bitten.

    Don't run around telling people that it's unrealistic if you cut a bitten person's arm off and they survive, when the setting is a zombie apocalypse where dead people magically reanimate and try to eat the living. It might come across a little bit ridiculous, you know?

    Cut Lee's arm off -> Lee survives.
    Don't cut his arm off -> Lee turns.

    Making him turn regardless of what you do renders your choice useless and this is nothing but lazy writing, especially since you had absolutely no control about the way he got bitten. I was 100% sure there is going to be a walker near the walkie talkie and I would had grabbed the shovel or a stick, or simply approached the trash bin from the side where I can see what's there, but the game didn't let me. This is just lame. They sacrificed Lee in order to make the story as emotional as possible and as far as I can see they succeeded in making you guys cry rivers. While the story wasn't bad for a movie or a comic, it was terrible for a video game where your experience is supposed to be tailored by how you play. It simply wasn't at all and I was very disappointed that they didn't manage to make choices truly matter, not even in the final episode! I find the ending lacking. It's just lame and lazy.

    Personally, I didn't like the plot from episode 3 onwards when they killed Carley no matter what you did, but I could live with it. However, killing Lee in a cutscene and give the players absolutely no choice to get the ending they wanted, the ending that is truly tailored to their gameplay, well that's just lazy and lame. Dunno why you folks play video games but I play them because they're interactive. If I just want somebody to tell me a story where I my decisions have absolutely ZERO impact on I'll go read a book or watch a movie.

  • @Evinshir said: What disappointed me was that all the decisions made throughout the game and even in episode 5 really amounted to nothing. It was all smoke and mirrors.

    I'm cool with Lee dying, it felt an appropriate close to the story after all. But I didn't like finding out that the same characters die at the same point in episode 5 regardless of who went with you or what decisions you made.

    That just made the emotional impact of their deaths feel cheap. What's the point getting upset about Ben's death if there was no way that he could have survived? It would have been better if it turned out that not bringing Kenny or Omid along for the final part of the game meant that Ben survived the fall. Or if Ben died, Kenny manages to escape...

    I had hoped that the conversation on the hospital roof had been more relevant with Lee being able to pick in the end who Clem would end up escaping with.

    Ultimately, I don't think having the same ending and epilogue regardless of your choices was a good idea. It negated the whole point and showed a failure to understand what it was about The Walking Dead that made it such an appealing game to a lot of people. Yes, the story was a good one. But this is a game too and as such the medium means stories can be told in ways that you can't do with film or television.

    Good storytelling isn't just about the journey. If a story has a weak ending, that is what the audience takes away with them. The feelings that the ending left them with. I loved so much of the game, but learning that my choices didn't have any real impact on the epilogue... That there was no way to save Kenny or Ben by making different choices... That changed this from Game of the Year to just another good game for me.

    It also makes it less appealing to bother playing through the game again to see how things change because I know it all turns out the same in the end.

    Bioware made the same mistake on a much larger scale with Mass Effect (with the added insult of a terribly written ending, at least TWD had a good ending that fitted the story.)

    So yeah. I was keen to rewind my episode to see what I could do differently, but seeing that it doesn't have any meaningful impact on events has meant I'm really not bothered with playing it again. Doesn't seem worth it right now. And I don't think that is how I should be feeling after a game that claimed to tailor the story around my choices.


    I agree 100% Telltale blatently lied. The game was good any way they didn't need to lie to sell the game. The TV show will sell this game and fans of the comic will buy this game. Telltale stated quite clearly that your going to have a complete different set of characters by the end of the game based on your choices from someone else's play through. That is a an out right lie. There is no way to have anyone other than Omid and Christa survive episode 5 assuming the silhouettes we see are of them in the first place. The game was good but would have been great if the survivors we had at the end of the game varied based on what we did as originally stated when episode 1 debuted.

  • @cfergs said: I can't believe that people are upset with the ending. The greatest thing about this game is that you are placed in a world that keeps you on your toes pretty much at all times to add a sense of realism to the experience. It would diminish that feeling if you knew that you were invincible. Too many games, books, and movies these days have a happy ending, and it's nice to have some variety at times.
    Great work Telltale! I'm looking forward to whatever's in store for Clementine in the next season.


    What questions are there? Any questions that I can think of would be explained at the start of the next season.


    Rick Grimes isn't invincible but he's alive after 103 issues he's had his hand cut off and been shot at least twice. Expecting Lee to last 5 episodes is not unrealistic. Lee survived the zombie apacolypse for only 13 weeks. Rick has been surviving the zombie apacolypse for over a year as has his 9 year old son Carl.

  • I was upset at the way kenny decided to kill himself. I understand that he had probably given up after ben had died.

    But that speech he made in the house about not ending it because its hard you have to carry on to help those you care about... WELL I THOUGHT HE CARED ABOUT CLEM. so why wouldn't he do EVERYTHING he could to get our little girl back, and THEN decide to end it. It just frustrates me because now kenny will never know if we got clementine back or not.

    Silly fool.


    Still <3 kenny though

  • @Sonic Boyster said: Y'all need to stop immediately looking for all the reasons to hate the game. I've been over this before so I'll do it one more time, and then you guys can pretend like it isn't true to feel better about feeling worse about episode 5.

    You never got to change the story with your choices, and that was never advertised, not even once. You got to tailor your experience to your decisions, which is what happens all throughout the series. I wish there had been a little more going on under the hood but they made most of the flavor dialog feel genuine and I rarely felt like I was totally without impact to the story. The only reason some of you feel that now is because you either came in with the misconception that it was a choose your own adventure book or you tried to replay the game and ruined the mechanics for yourself. It isn't a game about re-playability, it's an adventure game where you make the best decisions you can and you still get screwed in your very own personalized way.

    I think the vague ending was the best possible ending but that's just my taste for the grimdark speaking. The best and only possible ending involves Clementine being alone and scared, knowing everyone she ever loved is dead, more afraid of humans than walkers. That's The Walking Dead for me, and that's what makes it great. I think it would have been a terrible cop-out to give you any kind of closure or a happy ending, and I'm super happy they left it as bleak as they did.

    That said, there were definitely some parts of the game that felt contrived. Saw off your own arm without meds and just walk it off? Talk through a crowd of zombies like Conan the Barbarian? Immediately regrouped with your party even though you chose to go alone? Meh. Weak writing, but it didn't ruin it for me like 4's writing ruined it for me. I'm happy with what we got either way.



    Excuse me! In the walking dead Rick has had just as much victories as he has had tradgeides if not more. Is it unrealistic when he gets a happy ending to an issue or a story arc? When he finds the prison that was a victory since it offered shelter and hope, even if temporary. What about when Rick arrived at Hershel's farm and later saw his son recover, or when he found the Wilshire estate and had shelter for the night,or when he arrived at the camp out side Atlanta to find his wife and son safe, or when he found Gleen and Maggie on horseback when he thought all hope was lost and they took him back to Hershel's farm where he saw Andrea, sophia, Billy, Ben and Dale still alive,or when he arrived at the Alexandria safe zone on the road to washington. Now lets look at the key tradgedy moments; When the Wilshire estate was overrun, When the zombies got loose from Hershel's barn, When he arrived at Woodbury, when The governor attacked the prison, when the Alexandria gated community was over run and more recently when he went up against Negan. These key tragic events are over the course of over a year in Rick's world. Alot of the victories and hope inspiring moments have come at the end of the issues and comic story arcs so they were happy endings even if they were temporary. The walking dead is not all doom and gloom. There is balance, moments where the group even let their guard down because things were so comfortable, times where Rick has encouraged Carl to live like a child and go trick or treating like when he was in the Alaxandria safe zone.

    As for our so called misconceptions, telltale clearly stated that we could have a complete different set of survivors by the end of our game from someone else. Just watch the early playing dead videos. I'm sure you can still find them on youtube. I'm going to have the same survivors at the end of my game as you no matter what I do, that is not how the game was promoted, publicised or advertised. I would have bought the game any way because i'm a fan of the comics and the show but I was only expecting what Telltale said this game would do and how different from other games it would be because of player choices. Heavy Rain did not have as much an emphasis in the commercials and publicity about choices and that game actually has replay value since there is countless ways the game can unfold and end. Even in the latest playing dead episode Gary Whitta makes a point how episode 5 has 8 branches which the player can experience and how large the scripts were as a result of this, yet I found episode 5 to be the shortest of the 5 episodes and less conversation heavy than previous episodes.

  • @BlankCanvasDJ said: Plus Rick's just been exceptionally lucky (if you can call it that). Kirkman's never hidden the fact that he's very likely to kill Rick off at some point, and would probably keep the series going past him.



    No it's because Kirkman wrote the comics better than Telltale wrote the game. Rick's ability to survive is not purely luck, he has learned to survive in this world. Nothing he does seems out of place or wreckless. He's careful and he's learned from previous experiences. If Rick or any of the original Atlanta camp survivors were to be killed it wouldn't be a cheap kill by a lone zombie it will be at the hand of a human or the result of a herd overruning their area. With all the experience Lee had after 13 weeks of surviving this world he was caught of guard when wrestling a single walker. He was able to over come and get away from the reanimated Mr Parker when he was lying on his back (episode 2 on the truck)and the zombie was on top of him and he had less leverage but he couldn't overcome the zombie when he was standing up, why? Because Telltale wrote it that way.

    I had no problem with key characters dying in the game it's the way they died. I think Lee should have been bitten when he was in the midst of the horde when he was fighting to get to the Marsh house. I think Carly should have died struggling with Lily for the gun as opposed to Lily shooting her point blank for calling her a bitch. I think Katjaa should have died by Duck reanimating and biting her when she was saying her goodbyes, she could have been cuddling him at the time. Kenny's death was one of the least realistic. He only has 1 bullet, he shoots 1 of the 10 or so zombies approaching him and tries to fight the rest by punching them when he had plenty of time to run up the ladder with Lee, again, he could have died in the zombie horde on the way to the Marsh house.

    How dilusional must one be to accept Lee's death scene as being feasible. Lets put this in context. He has collapsed in the midst of a zombie herd and weighs at least 154 ibs (11 stone if your British) yet Clementine is able to drag him into a shop/building without attracting attention from the countless zombies and she is not persued. In such a situation sudden movements would be enough to alert the walkers to the fact you are not one of them. What would have been more believable would have been if he escorted her to the safe zone then collapsed like the man did in the movie called "The Road" and she pointed out that the train was right there, cried and then shot Lee with Christa and Omid running towards her and crying over Lee's body, taking his body with them to give him a burial. Arriving by train to a building/house in a secluded area, having a burial and saying their final words. That ending would have also been true to the walking dead.

  • @MaroubraDave said: Yes i'm not debating the fact we saw it coming (lee dying) i'm saying it's shit that you play a whole game only to end up dying no matter what you do. And what "option"? He dies whether you cut it off or not... WTF is the point. All that for stupid clem... :p



    Are you for real??? It's called a story for reason, not written by you. As I said before, you want a different ending...write your damn story:eek::eek:

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