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Episode 5 Disappointment (vent here) **SPOILERS**

posted by MaroubraDave on - last edited - Viewed by 5.1K users

Telltale,
Firstly i would like to say great game and a fantastic concept. However the ending i would say is not so great. While it is very well made and certainly tugs at your heart strings, I didn't play the game and wait for the ending only to find out i die anyway... Now i know people may argue that you didn't see lee actually turn so maybe he will be ok, but the fact you left it this way is really a let down to the series. I was really looking forward to the last episode but in all honesty it just brought me down and i kinda wish i stopped playing at episode 4. :confused: There should be an alternative ending where you can at least live... Just my opinion.

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  • @ieatbrains said: Very well said. "Choices are full of crap"


    My thoughts exactly.

  • @Doctanian said: TellTale should've dropped the whole walkie-talkie business. That ruined the story. It was absolutely masterful up until the end of episode 4. The whole tension between Lilly and Kenny, the struggle to survive and make tough choices on who gets to eat. Raiding places for supplies. Finding a boat. Taking shelter.

    Then Clementine got kidnapped and Lee got bit. How conveniently doom and gloom.

    Episode 3 should've erased the whole walkie-talkie concept and just stuck with the main message: survival. Maybe they should've ended the season with Clem finding her parents (in a more dramatic way, because episode 5's way was terrible) and have her kill them to defend Lee or something. Maybe Lee gets bit at the end of the season. I don't fucking know, all I know is the writers' efforts to make a effective villain failed and thus the entire plot fell to pieces before my eyes . The goal should've been just to survive with your group.

    I was angry at campman, not for being a bad guy, but sucking so fucking hard at it. He's easily one of the lamest villains I've encountered in a game.

    I need to stop thinking about episode 5, otherwise I'll hate the series. It's that bad to me.


    I Agree 100%

  • @Doctanian said: TellTale should've dropped the whole walkie-talkie business. That ruined the story. It was absolutely masterful up until the end of episode 4. The whole tension between Lilly and Kenny, the struggle to survive and make tough choices on who gets to eat. Raiding places for supplies. Finding a boat. Taking shelter.

    Then Clementine got kidnapped and Lee got bit. How conveniently doom and gloom.

    Episode 3 should've erased the whole walkie-talkie concept and just stuck with the main message: survival. Maybe they should've ended the season with Clem finding her parents (in a more dramatic way, because episode 5's way was terrible) and have her kill them to defend Lee or something. Maybe Lee gets bit at the end of the season. I don't fucking know, all I know is the writers' efforts to make a effective villain failed and thus the entire plot fell to pieces before my eyes . The goal should've been just to survive with your group.

    I was angry at campman, not for being a bad guy, but sucking so fucking hard at it. He's easily one of the lamest villains I've encountered in a game.

    I need to stop thinking about episode 5, otherwise I'll hate the series. It's that bad to me.


    I agree.

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    dx1

    @Evinshir said: Cutting off his arm *should* have meant that someone else had to go to the bell tower and risk their life. It *should* have meant crossing the sign was near impossible and another route needed to be found.

    From a roleplayer's pov: You'd rather stand by and watch some nsc do the work instead of let your own character do it and feel the suspense?

    Crossing that sign with only one hand to grip is trivial. You never climbed a ladder with a power drill in your hand? Okay, maybe you did not. But I bet it was not because of you held it between your teeth.

    This TWD is interactive entertainment and the script respects that. Thanks for that. What works in novels won't work on stage won't work on screen won't work in dance performances won't work in video games.

  • @samipod42 said: Can everybody shut up about saying that the reason people hate the ending is because they're complaining about Lee dying?! I've seen this comment so many times but I'll say it again. It's because the CHOICES DIDN'T MATTER. I chopped off my arm. I fully accepted that Lee was going to die but I figured chopping off my arm could buy me some time and that might be exactly what I needed. What bothers me the most is the fact that what seemed to be the big choice of who comes with you and did you reveal the bite doesn't matter. The group finds out your bitten anyway and doesn't care and you go back to the mansion anyway and meet back with the group. I went with everyone and I thought that my adventure would be so much more intense than other people's, but it's exactly the same! I saved Ben's life, but his big "moment" was him standing up to Kenny. He still screwed up again in the end and got Kenny killed. Kenny's death in both situations felt forced. I hope he's still alive because it was ambiguous. Campan, or "The Man Who Masterminded the Game" was horribly disappointing. I always thought that decision was more of a moral dilemma to teach Clementine if stealing was wrong of if survival was more important. I didn't know it was the biggest decision in the game! Wait...No, it wasn't. He still kidnaps Clementine and hates Lee if you DON'T STEAL. I thought it was interesting how he chastised Lee for his bad decisions but you can tell they were really reaching for some of them. I thought most of my decisions were right and he said I was a bad guy because I brought Clementine to Crawford, I brought her to the dairy, and...that's it. I couldn't even decide one of those. The final episode should've been a big, "You brought these people. The story branches off this way and you get this moral dilemma instead of this one." I saw a guy on YouTube who does these playthroughs and I noticed before I played that this episode was only 9 parts, contrary to the other's 14 and 15 part lengths. I figured that was because of the massive replayability of this episode. Nope. The ONLY excuse for an ending as forced and as rushed as this is if we continue with this cast for season 2. I don't want that to happen but it's the only way. There should've been moments in this episode where if you made one decision, you wasted time, didn't get to Clementine, and see that she's already a walker. NOTHING in this episode changes. The only change that happens is if you save Ben or not and that's very minor. Believe it or not, I did like this episode. I just needed to vent. I thought the ending was very nice and heartbreaking but when the episode ended and the Walking Dead logo went up, I was taken aback. This episode was really short, as opposed to the much longer Around Every Corner, which had much more branching paths.


    I agree.

  • @Evinshir said: Really? That's the best you can come up with?

    I'm arguing from the point of narrative - not "real life."

    From the point of narrative, why bother having Lee cut off his arm. If it isn't doing anything to change the way the story plays out, what's the point? Decisions characters make in a story are meant to serve some purpose to the plot.

    Cutting off his arm *should* have meant that someone else had to go to the bell tower and risk their life. It *should* have meant crossing the sign was near impossible and another route needed to be found.

    It should not have meant absolutely nothing to events and actions that Lee faced after that decision.

    As such - if cutting off his arm has zero narrative impact beyond a few cripple jokes, why bother having the option at all? It just makes the whole exercise pointless in a rather unsatisfying way.

    IF it had meant that there would be a scene all about how he's turning anyway and how hard he had tried to live... then maybe. But the game really just goes "Lee cuts off his arm and that's all."


    Come on... Lee was passing out and shit, it was crystal clear to me that the poison had already spread on his body. It was a no-brainer to me deciding not to cut it off, because from other Walking Dead titles I'd already known that for the whole cutting it off business to work, it would've had to be IMMEDIATELY after the bite.

    Long story short , people who are knowlegeable of the TWD universe = didn't cut it off because they knew it wouldn't work
    Newfags = Cut it off and get upset because it didn't work

    I mean, it's not like any of the characters in the game had watched/read any walking dead stuff to automatically know it wouldn't change anything. That's why the choice was there.They had to try.

    Much like if Ben hadn't told them that people turned regardless if they were bitten or not, the group would probably have died in that meat locker by zombie Larry. They're not all-knowing.

  • @dx1 said: From a roleplayer's pov: You'd rather stand by and watch some nsc do the work instead of let your own character do it and feel the suspense?

    Actually.. Yes. Because I've built relationships with these characters and don't want to see them die. Isn't that kind of the whole point that it's important that characters lives are at risk?

    Crossing that sign with only one hand to grip is trivial. You never climbed a ladder with a power drill in your hand? Okay, maybe you did not. But I bet it was not because of you held it between your teeth.

    Actually losing your arm effects your balance. The human body is designed to operate a particular way and amputees have to spend a lot of time learning to reset their balance to account for lost limbs.

    So crossing a ladder just moments after losing your arm? Not really smart. Especially when you have four more able bodied people standing right next to you.

    This TWD is interactive entertainment and the script respects that. Thanks for that. What works in novels won't work on stage won't work on screen won't work in dance performances won't work in video games.

    My point is that the script *doesn't* respect that. It tries to trick you into thinking it's being interactive, but when the plot doesn't change and none of your actions actually carry a narrative impact... then it might as well have just been a book, film, play or other more linear non-interactive experience.

  • @WoodMan said: Yeah you could be right because she is still very young, would be an unusual protagonist, but it could be quite a different game, think no punching people and fighting off hordes with a meat cleaver stuff like Lee was doing but having to survive in other ways, it could be very interesting.

    However, I was half expecting a scene at the end where you see a much older Clem, like 20 years old or something, only identifiable by her hat :D

    That would have made a more likely Clem protagonist for a second game, and given the first game a happy ending because Lee's actions would have all been validated right there!


    But if they did that the game would be set in the future ahead of the main cannon walking dead story branch therefore it would loose it's authenticity. The walking dead is set for 300 comic issues. After 100 issues Carl is still only 9. The game and the tv show need to take inspiration from the original source material to stay authentic other wise it would be like a what if comic issue like the comic where Hulk broke Supermans back or the Smalllville series which has no authenticity whatsoever and strays from the superman mythology. Why the game was so authentic was because it showed Rick's world from another survivors perspective in another part of the country during a similar time frame. If anything The next season could bring their calander more inline with Rick's by the time it's released and maybe show other places Rick has been like the Alexandria safe zone or the Hill top colony.

  • @DatDude said: Sorry you feel that way. There are alot of reasons why I liked episode (i posted this on another forum):

    I loved it. The parallelism to the first episode was great and the character interaction was also amazing. And of course, right when Ben redeems himself in the eyes of the group, he bites it. And Kenny too. When it prompted Lee to grab the bust I didn't, but my heart leaped in my chest when Kenny grabbed it. But when he threw it away, I knew that deep down the man cared for Lee. Man Kenny could be a bastard at times, but the second he left, I missed him.

    And then we come to Omid and Christa. I really like both of their characters and figured they'd be the great successors to take care of Clem after Lee eventually succumbed. Plus I also noticed their like split versions of Lee, with Christa being black and Omid being the history professor. Okay maybe not so much.

    Then we come to the stranger. To be honest, once I saw the station wagon outside, I knew that it'd be the owner inside. But I hated how he kept accusing you of things you did, without even knowing the story behind it. There are always two sides to a story, and he's only getting one. Also I guess I had a sort of loop hole with killing the stranger. I don't think Clem thinks he's dead, because she asked Lee whether or not it'd be okay to leave him. But I learned my lesson from the farmer bros back in episode 2; I wasn't going to kill a human (no matter how fucked up he was) in front of Clem again.

    And finally we come to the end. The finale. The goodbye. At this point, I pretty much resigned myself to Lee's death and only looked toward's Clementine's future. Talking her through the escape was great and the sequence with the zombie guard had me in a panic. And when all was said and done and I knew she had to shoot Lee. She already saw her parents turned, and my word I can't believe how well she handled that. I didn't want her to have to see Lee turned as well so I knew there could only be one choice. And I know she'll come out stronger because of it. I made sure that she knew how to get to Omid and Christa, because I figured that telling her to go solo wasn't the right thing. She made it this far with the help of everyone, and if she never trusted any strangers, then she would've never met Lee. Plus by now, I think she's figured out the signs of when someone's riding the crazy train. My final words to her, even though it broke my heart, weren't "I'll miss you," even though I wanted to say that more than anything. But I didn't want this to be any harder than it had to be, so I just told her "Don't be afraid."

    Those are my reasons...

    I hear why you didn't like the episode..I just don't really care, and your coming as one of those "stop liking what I like" type of people. No offense.


    I don't see how Ben redeemed himself by standing up to Kenny. The issue the group had with him is that he kept fucking up and costing them members of the group, or putting their safety at risk. Think of the big brother tv show if you have a house mate contestant that keeps failing tasks and causing your shopping budget to be cut or getting the whole group punished you would put him up for nomination every week until the public evicted him so you have a happier environment for your remaining time on the show. That is why the group had issues with Ben. Even Christa and Omid saw him as a liability and they had only been with him for a matter of hours in episode 4.

    For Ben to have redeemed him self he would have needed to do more than use colourful language. He would have needed to step up physically and help the group solve problems. The only thing he contributed in his remaining moments was to give Lee an empty gun which Lee had dropped going up the attick stairs. After his big speech all he did was evoke sympathy when he told his life story and he clumsily fell to his death shortly after, failing to make a jump that was achieved by a one armed man and a guy with a gimpy leg. The irony is that he proved the group right again since his failure to make the jump led to Kenny's death even if Kenny chose to stay. So if Ben was never brought to the motor inn in the first place Larry would have been around longer because Kenny wouldn't of felt the need to kill him before we attempted cpr, Lilly wouldn't of had her brake down and killed Carly since he wouldn't of traded with the bandits,Duck wouldn't of been attacked in the motor inn, Katjaa may have been around longer, Chuck wouldn't have died trying to save Clementine. Do you see where i'm going with this. The guy was a curse to the group since they met him. With all those numbers of people who's death he inadvertently caused he still set the chain reaction that would bring down Kenny all this without redeeming himself of the very thing that the group accused him of being, a liability.

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    dx1

    [quote=evinshir;731250]My point is that the script *doesn't* respect that. It tries to trick you into thinking it's being interactive, but when the plot doesn't change and none of your actions actually carry a narrative impact... Then it might as well have just been a book, film, play or other more linear non-interactive experience.[/quote]

    I didn't say it respects your choices. I said it is a script for a game. I said it isn't a script for a play or a movie or a guided sight seeing tour. I said it respects the fact that this TWD is interactive. When you just watch supporting acts do the climbing, where's your (inter)-activity? I would be bored to death if No Time Left was a 90 minute outro for my actions in the first 4 episodes.

    Back to the climb a ladder with only one arm. I agree one feels a little clumsy climbing that ladder with a power drill in the other hand but I know not one person that needed to train that in order to drill some holes 6 meters (almost 18 of your transatlantician feet) over the ground. Lee didn't walk or flip-flopped to the bell tower, he climbed on his threes.

    At last the first point: NSC and watching them, because they should not die. Maybe I get you wrong. If this is true then I'm sorry for it. You say you care for them and that's why one of them should go. Lee said something like he was the most expendable (because of his already gone body parts and the bite). I think he—like you—cared about these NSC and wanted to increase their chances. But now for real let's assumpt I misunderstood you here. That brings me back to the 90 minute outro which would have made me bored and angry enough to start a thread in the ttg forums. Some (me) liked to play in the tight borders of the narration in episode 5, others rather would have leaned back and watched the outcome of their previous choices. This is a matter of taste and I apologize for arguing that part.

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