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Why did **** "Sacrifice" himself?

posted by FistoTheSexbot on - last edited - Viewed by 1.7K users

"We're gonna find clementime, with or without you, Lee"

*later*


"Oh, nope. Just gonna kill myself, not like I care about what happens to clementime or If Lee doesn't make it"


Really? He could have just shot Ben then go with Lee, wouldn't take long, sure the walkers would go to them, but they can't climb ladders, and they would be long gone before they could even get up.

I know Kenny doesn't got a family left, and the boat is gone, but he cared for Lee and Clementime, and I doubt he'd just forget that and die for nothing.

Why did you think he did it? Was it a legit reason? Do you think the his death was a good death or just a "Let's just get this character over with" death.

110 Comments - Linear Discussion: Classic Style
  • @voodoohandbag said: Reading your posts, I gather that you really dislike the conclusion of this game. This is weird for me to say, but you remind me of Final Fantasy or Silent Hill fans. It's weird for me to say because I AM a FF and SH fan, and I spend some time on their forums and such. People are never happy.

    One faction gets what they want, everyone else is pissed off.

    There were some definite flaws in this plot, but as a fan of fiction in general, I have come to accept that flaws are inevitable. Geez, how dare Telltale use contrived coincidences to move the plot forward, what assholes!

    I know I'm in a minority here, but I judge games based on plot and characterisation over, say, gameplay or graphics or whatever. The overall plot here is great, and Telltale did a truly jaw-dropping job of making Lee and Clem likeable.

    I dunno, I guess I'm the sort of person that focuses more on the positives than the negatives, but accepts the negatives anyway.

    Dude, I joined this forum just to vent, lol. I know I'm being a bit too harsh, but I can't stand bad writing. And at the end of episode 4, I was afraid of what TellTale would do and they did it. They focused on that fucking campman storyline. If you had asked me to rate the game before episode 4, I would've said "A fucking masterpiece. One of the best games in the history of games." The story was just that good, but they tossed it away for this whackass, bitchass, stupid-ass, lame-ass, dumbass, whackass Campman arc.

    I just wanted a story of Lee surviving and caring for Clem. I could care less if he died at the end, but the Campman arc ruined it. It made TellTale rush in episode 5 in an effort to wrap things up. And because of that, plotholes galore. I HATE plotholes. It was better off sticking to what it originally was about.

  • I think he was prepared to die, but he wasn't committing suicide or anything,he's going to do his best. I hope we get to see him again, but if he died, he did it bravely.

  • @rachellouise85 said: You obviously do not understand how a story works, and have no idea how to determine what is good, or bad writing. You not liking something does not make it bad.

    Congratulations! You're the billionth person to use the "You obvious do not understand [insert concept]" defense in an effort to save your terrible argument because you have nothing more substantial to add to the discussion.

    Simply saying I don't know how something works doesn't make it so. So please, stop with the logical fallacies.

  • That just proves the point it's obvious. Again, just because you don't like something, does not mean it's bad.

  • Doctanian: Please explain this whole bad writing concept to me?

    -If you're talking about this whole convenience matter, then look at... say... every other game... ever...

    Examples:

    [Insert Shooter Here]: Oh, how convenient, I'm invincible!

    [Insert Adventure Game Here]: Oh, how convenient, all these items somehow come together to combine and interact with the environment so that I can complete my objective!

    [Insert Platformer Here]: Oh, how convenient, I can jump on peoples heads and destroy them!

    @Doctanian said:
    I just wanted a story of Lee surviving and caring for Clem. I could care less if he died at the end, but the Campman arc ruined it.

    I'm pretty sure Lee was trying to survive to save and care for Clem... and I really don't see how this Campman scene that took 10 minutes ruined it... If it was the storyline you didn't like, and not your supposed plotholes, then that's your opinion, but it's not bad writing...

    @Doctanian said:
    1) Give Ben the gun and have him do it himself.
    2) Shoot Ben and lock the gate/climb ladder.

    3) Do what you think is morally right after what you put the kid through... Also to possibly see your family again.

    @Doctanian said: Kenny? Redeeming himself? At the most critical point in the story? How convenient.

    Yes... Kenny... Redeemed himself... At the most critical point of the story... and also after being finally shouted back at by Ben about how his family died and also realising that all he had cared about so far was his family...

    @Doctanian said: It's not the fact Lee got bit that I had a problem with, but the amateur way it happened pissed me off. I knew there was a
    fucking zombie behind that cardboard.

    I can't argue that you knew there was a walker there, but did you know it'd bite you (Without looking at videos and forums beforehand)? I don't want an answer to this question because clearly even if you didn't know, at this point in the argument you'd lie.

    @Doctanian said: Congratulations! You're the billionth person to use the "You obvious do not understand [insert concept]" defense in an effort to save your terrible argument because you have nothing more substantial to add to the discussion.

    Really? Take a look at this:

    @Doctanian said: In a nutshell: Bad writing.

    @Doctanian said: Give me a break. You're just trying to defend poor writing.

    @Doctanian said: Lol, more trying to defend bad writing.

    @Doctanian said:
    People trying to defend poor writing makes me lol.

    @Doctanian said: I know I'm being a bit too harsh, but I can't stand bad writing.

    Take what you just said and add it into this context. You have nothing else to add to the discussion. You've stated your points and you can stop now. I know you're trying to vent, but now you're simply insulting the writers. Hold your breath and count to 10 or punch a wall or something...

    You know what I hate Even more than people that complain about games over and over?

    Broken records.

  • @Doctanian said: Dude, I joined this forum just to vent, lol. I know I'm being a bit too harsh, but I can't stand bad writing. And at the end of episode 4, I was afraid of what TellTale would do and they did it. They focused on that fucking campman storyline. If you had asked me to rate the game before episode 4, I would've said "A fucking masterpiece. One of the best games in the history of games." The story was just that good, but they tossed it away for this whackass, bitchass, stupid-ass, lame-ass, dumbass, whackass Campman arc.

    I just wanted a story of Lee surviving and caring for Clem. I could care less if he died at the end, but the Campman arc ruined it. It made TellTale rush in episode 5 in an effort to wrap things up. And because of that, plotholes galore. I HATE plotholes. It was better off sticking to what it originally was about.

    I don't really care about plotholes, as I tend to be everything that an artist wants - someone with an open and accepting mind. It may or may not be a bad thing, jury's still out on that ;)

    It's probably the main reason TV Tropes is my favourite website - they point out the flaws I miss because I'm so wrapped up the the story.

    This game has hit me on a profound level. It made me question what it means to be a human being, a feeling I have only previously felt from Neon Genesis Evangelion and V For Vendetta. Difference is, this game affected me in a POSITIVE way.

    'Bad writing' affects, well, pretty much everything. The ending of this game may have been written poorly, but Telltale also pulled out all the stops to make both Lee and Clem possibly the most well-written characters in gaming history. To me, fiction is about the characters' journey, not the fine details.

    As I said, I'd rather praise them for what they did brilliantly than complain it wasn't what I wanted.

  • User Avatar Image
    Jennifer Moderator

    I edited the title of your post. Please don't post spoilers in thread titles because people can see them in the index of the forum even if they don't visit The Walking Dead spoiler forum. Remember, there's still people who are waiting for the retail release before playing the game.

  • @XTheFirestarterX

    Doctanian: Please explain this whole bad writing concept to me?

    Numerous plotholes. Poor villain motivation. No closure. Painfully obvious plot convenience.


    [Insert Shooter Here]: Oh, how convenient, I'm invincible!

    [Insert Adventure Game Here]: Oh, how convenient, all these items somehow come together to combine and interact with the environment so that I can complete my objective!

    [Insert Platformer Here]: Oh, how convenient, I can jump on peoples heads and destroy them!

    Too broad and vague. And you're using strawmen. Nice. This is a storybasd game, it's not a run-and-gun shooter like Call of Duty where you can ignore has stupid the plot is.

    I'm pretty sure Lee was trying to survive to save and care for Clem... and I really don't see how this Campman scene that took 10 minutes ruined it... If it was the storyline you didn't like, and not your supposed plotholes, then that's your opinion, but it's not bad writing...

    If it's my opinion, then what's the big deal? Why did you even take the time to respond? If I say it's bad writing and you say "that your opinion", then that makes the story objective, right? If it's not bad writing then it's not necessarily good writing either.

    3) Do what you think is morally right after what you put the kid through... Also to possibly see your family again.

    Yes... Kenny... Redeemed himself... At the most critical point of the story... and also after being finally shouted back at by Ben about how his family died and also realising that all he had cared about so far was his family...

    No, Kenny still dies at the exact same point. Whether Ben lives or not. So it was just to convenience the writers. Otherwise, they would've went out of their way to give him an alternate death. But no, it's him fighting off zombies in another ambiguous death scene.


    I can't argue that you knew there was a walker there, but did you know it'd bite you (Without looking at videos and forums beforehand)? I don't want an answer to this question because clearly even if you didn't know, at this point in the argument you'd lie.

    Kinda. The way Lee walked towards the radio made me thing "some bad shit's about to go down." I was 90% sure there was a walker behind the board, and I was 70% sure Lee might get bitten due to the tension it was building up.

    Really? Take a look at this:

    Take what you just said and add it into this context. You have nothing else to add to the discussion. You've stated your points and you can stop now. I know you're trying to vent, but now you're simply insulting the writers. Hold your breath and count to 10 or punch a wall or something...

    You know what I hate Even more than people that complain about games over and over?

    Broken records.

    I've stated over and over and over again that I think the writers did a great job for most of the series. I've stated constantly that I adore the game. And everyone and their mom agrees. But when I call bullshit on Episode 5, all of a sudden, people jump on me like I'm disgracing the Lord. People will bend over backwards to defend everything about this game as if it's immune to flaws. Then people say "it has flaws, it's glitchy". Technical issues don't cut it. It's flawed storywise as well, there's plenty of valid plotholes to vindicate this. It's not a terrible thing. I think TellTale has something great in their hands, and I'm being so vocal because I don't want them to fuck up season 2. I want them to stick to the concept of survival like episodes 1-3 did. They dropped the ball with this "campman" business.

    "Well, that's just your opinion." You say.

    THAT'S RIGHT! THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT!!!!! And I have a right to be vocal about it without people jumping down my throat like I'm just finding something to complain about. These are valid concerns to me, and while you don't have to agree, you can at least respect it. It's just bad writing to me, I'll say it and if people try to debate me on it, I'll do so.

    People try excuse away any points I make as if the game is a masterpiece when it isn't. It could've been a masterpiece and I think that's what made me the most disappointed. This is a small company, they're going to cut corners and have story issues. If the comic and TV show have issues, then I know for a fact TellTale isn't immune.

    And your quotes are really cherrypicking to the point where it's intellectually disgusting. You didn't quote what I said after I made those statements. I said it was bad writing, but I think I did a pretty good job at explaining why. If not on this thread than plenty of others.

    Majority of these threads, I state my opinion. Others confront me on it. Not the other way around.

  • @Jennifer said: I edited the title of your post. Please don't post spoilers in thread titles because people can see them in the index of the forum even if they don't visit The Walking Dead spoiler forum. Remember, there's still people who are waiting for the retail release before playing the game.

    But it's in the spoilers section of the forums... how does that even work?

    Whatever.

  • That's because you're presenting your opinion as fact. You may think it's bad writing, because you don't like it - that doesn't make it fact. People who think differently aren't wrong, that's their opinion, not 'poor defense of bad writing' etc.. Respect is a two way street.

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