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Ben didnt really prove himself in the end.

posted by DarcKage on - last edited - Viewed by 544 users

Which is a damn shame.

Yeah, he finally stood up to Kenny and told him what's up, which was good. But he was still a liability in the end. I really feel sorry for the poor kid, he couldnt do anything right and died a horrible death.

- got several people killed.
- Got bitched at all the time and treated like a kid.
- Never got to see his family.
- Had to live for a while with the guilt of indirectly killing Katjaa/Duck.
- Died in an alleyway surrounded by walkers with no one but the guy who hated his guts all this time by his side.
- Probably never got laid.

Such a sad story. :(

73 Comments - Linear Discussion: Classic Style
  • @cormoran said: You can link everyone to every death, that's the problem with the whole "Ben killed everyone" line of thinking.

    Take Lee for example, from the very beginning would the cop have crashed into that walker and died if Lee hadn't killed the senator and needed to be driven to the prison? and as a result would any of what happened afterwards have happened without Lee there to influence things?



    Care to fully explain how everyone is linked to every death?
    [LIST=1]
    [*]If Ben never traded with the bandits, Duck would've never got bitten and Katjaa would've never killed herself and Kenny would still have something to live for.

    [*]If Ben had just confessed to the secret trading, Lilly wouldn't have shot Carley or Doug. And Lilly would've never abandoned the group or be abandoned by the group.

    [*]If Ben had saved Clementine, Chuck would've never had to intervene and get cut off by the group only to die later in the sewers.

    [*]If Ben didn't take the axe from the doors in Crawford, Brie would still be alive. I didn't like her much, though.

    [*]If Ben had just told Kenny to shoot him or give him the gun in the alley, Kenny wouldn't have sacrificed himself.
    [/LIST]

    Ben's linked directly to majority of the deaths in this game. Get over it. I'm sick of people seriously trying to defend him. If you like him, fine, but that doesn't mean he's not an extremely useless character. There's a reason some people hate Ben more than Larry AND Campman.

  • @Doctanian said: Care to fully explain how everyone is linked to every death?
    [LIST=1]
    [*]If Ben never traded with the bandits, Duck would've never got bitten and Katjaa would've never killed herself and Kenny would still have something to live for.

    [*]If Ben had just confessed to the secret trading, Lilly wouldn't have shot Carley or Doug. And Lilly would've never abandoned the group or be abandoned by the group.

    [*]If Ben had saved Clementine, Chuck would've never had to intervene and get cut off by the group only to die later in the sewers.

    [*]If Ben didn't take the axe from the doors in Crawford, Brie would still be alive. I didn't like her much, though.

    [*]If Ben had just told Kenny to shoot him or give him the gun in the alley, Kenny wouldn't have sacrificed himself.
    [/LIST]

    Ben's linked directly to majority of the deaths in this game. Get over it. I'm sick of people seriously trying to defend him. If you like him, fine, but that doesn't mean he's not an extremely useless character. There's a reason some people hate Ben more than Larry AND Campman.



    I already linked Lee. I'm just as sick of people like you making insane links to ben and the death of the every character in the game.

    Lets go through your hilariously poor conspiracy theory laden examples:

    If Ben never traded with the bandits they'd have attacked earlier, as they eventually did, and could have killed EVERYONE.

    If ben had confessed Lilly would have shot him, Doug would have still put himself in the way and been killed, carly still thinks she's a scared little girl. Lilly killed Doug/Carly, no one else.

    Chuck made the decision to intervene, he could have just stood by too. Alternatively, we've been teaching Clem to take care of herself for four episodes, it's as much her fault for freezing up.

    If Brie had pushed one of the many objects in front of the door instead of using her own body like an idiot she'd still be alive.

    Kenny made the decision to kill himself, nothing Ben said would have changed that. Any idiot could have just shot Ben and left long before those walkers made it, Kenny wanted to die.

    People like you blame a woman for being raped, instead of the rapist who raped her. Zombies killed Duck, Katjaa killed herself, Lilly/Zombies killed Doug/Carly, Zombies killed Chuck, Zombies killed Brie, Zombies killed Kenny. End of story.

  • @shedim said: He got Kenny killed. As I expected.

    Ben's killcount:
    -Duck
    -Katjaa
    -Carley/Doug
    -Chuck
    -Brie
    and if you didn't drop the idiot in episode 4
    -Kenny


    He didn't get Kenny killed. Kenny himself chose the death.
    I think he had enough and saved him from the pain.
    @shedim said: Ben also "killed" Larry...

    Kenny - "Remember what Ben said, gotta destroy the brain...
    Holy shit, now that I think about it, he has gotten everyone killed (Since Ep. 2). Indirectly of course. The first victim was Larry and the bandit attack caused 3 more deaths.

  • @Doctanian said: Care to fully explain how everyone is linked to every death?
    [LIST=1]
    [*]If Ben never traded with the bandits, Duck would've never got bitten and Katjaa would've never killed herself and Kenny would still have something to live for.

    [*]If Ben had just confessed to the secret trading, Lilly wouldn't have shot Carley or Doug. And Lilly would've never abandoned the group or be abandoned by the group.

    [*]If Ben had saved Clementine, Chuck would've never had to intervene and get cut off by the group only to die later in the sewers.

    [*]If Ben didn't take the axe from the doors in Crawford, Brie would still be alive. I didn't like her much, though.

    [*]If Ben had just told Kenny to shoot him or give him the gun in the alley, Kenny wouldn't have sacrificed himself.
    [/LIST]

    Ben's linked directly to majority of the deaths in this game. Get over it. I'm sick of people seriously trying to defend him. If you like him, fine, but that doesn't mean he's not an extremely useless character. There's a reason some people hate Ben more than Larry AND Campman.



    Okay, I shall try.
    [LIST=1]
    [*]If Ben never traded with the bandits, they would've probably killed him and attacked the group a lot earlier, and who knows, perhaps with even more people, which would most likely end in the deaths of everyone. And keep in mind that the bandits only attacked when they did because Lee removed the supplies from the place they were supposed to pick it up, and he only did that because Lilly was paranoid and found out someone was stealing supplies from them, and she only went paranoid because Kenny crushed her dad's head in front of her.


    [*]If Ben had just confessed to the secret trading, Lilly would have shot him in his face or kicked him out of the group because she was pretty unstable. And I'm pretty sure Carley and Doug would have stood up for Ben anyways, because like Doug said: "Evidence or not, this isn't right!". Who knows what an unstable woman would have done then when people disagreed with her?


    [*]If Ben had saved Clementine, Chuck would've never had to intervene and get cut off by the group only to die later in the sewers. That's mostly true. But that also falls on Lee, why wasn't he there protecting her? Why wasn't she close to him? There are a lot of questions you gotta ask yourself.


    [*]If Ben didn't take the axe from the doors in Crawford, Brie would still be alive. That's kind of true, that was a pretty stupid move on Ben's part. But as much as Ben's confession had a horrible timing, the timing on Kenny's vote to kick him out was just as horrible, which kept everyone in the room for more time than they should've stayed there, and ended up in Brie's death.


    [*]If Ben had just told Kenny to shoot him or give him the gun in the alley, Kenny wouldn't have sacrificed himself. Okay, it was Kenny's decision to stay back (keep in mind his weight also broke the balcony), I really can't understand why people blame Ben here. It's not his fault he fell. He was probably scared as fuck, the way he says "OH GOD, DON'T LET THEM GET TO ME" shows how he didn't want to die there.
    [/LIST]

    Seriously, blaming everything on only one character is even more annoying than 'people defending him'. He is indeed linked to many character's deaths, but so are a lot of other people, including Lee. The main reason most people started hating him is because of Carley and Doug, who stood up for him, by the way.

  • @cormoran said: I already linked Lee. I'm just as sick of people like you making insane links to ben and the death of the every character in the game.

    Lets go through your hilariously poor conspiracy theory laden examples:

    If Ben never traded with the bandits they'd have attacked earlier, as they eventually did, and could have killed EVERYONE.

    If ben had confessed Lilly would have shot him, Doug would have still put himself in the way and been killed, carly still thinks she's a scared little girl. Lilly killed Doug/Carly, no one else.

    Chuck made the decision to intervene, he could have just stood by too. Alternatively, we've been teaching Clem to take care of herself for four episodes, it's as much her fault for freezing up.

    If Brie had pushed one of the many objects in front of the door instead of using her own body like an idiot she'd still be alive.

    Kenny made the decision to kill himself, nothing Ben said would have changed that. Any idiot could have just shot Ben and left long before those walkers made it, Kenny wanted to die.

    People like you blame a woman for being raped, instead of the rapist who raped her. Zombies killed Duck, Katjaa killed herself, Lilly/Zombies killed Doug/Carly, Zombies killed Chuck, Zombies killed Brie, Zombies killed Kenny. End of story.



    WOAH WOAH WOAH WOAH. Hold the fucking phone. Don't you dare accuse me of saying that it's a woman's fault if she's raped. I'm someone who's volunteered at women's shelters, so by you having the audacity to even say that depresses me. That's probably the most nonsensical and offensive analogy I've ever heard. We're talking about a fictional character in a video game, calm the fuck down and chill with the ludicrous accusations.

    I don't even wanna debate with you, I'm sorry if you felt offended at my comments, but it's just a fucking game and I was just openly discussing it with you. No need to say that I condone rape and that I blame victims.

    And that comparison doesn't even work, I would have to be blaming Carley for her death rather than Ben.

  • @Viser said: Okay, I shall try.
    [LIST=1]
    [*]If Ben never traded with the bandits, they would've probably killed him and attacked the group a lot earlier, and who knows, perhaps with even more people, which would most likely end in the deaths of everyone. And keep in mind that the bandits only attacked when they did because Lee removed the supplies from the place they were supposed to pick it up, and he only did that because Lilly was paranoid and found out someone was stealing supplies from them, and she only went paranoid because Kenny crushed her dad's head in front of her.


    [*]If Ben had just confessed to the secret trading, Lilly would have shot him in his face or kicked him out of the group because she was pretty unstable. And I'm pretty sure Carley and Doug would have stood up for Ben anyways, because like Doug said: "Evidence or not, this isn't right!". Who knows what an unstable woman would have done then when people disagreed with her?


    [*]If Ben had saved Clementine, Chuck would've never had to intervene and get cut off by the group only to die later in the sewers. That's mostly true. But that also falls on Lee, why wasn't he there protecting her? Why wasn't she close to him? There are a lot of questions you gotta ask yourself.


    [*]If Ben didn't take the axe from the doors in Crawford, Brie would still be alive. That's kind of true, that was a pretty stupid move on Ben's part. But as much as Ben's confession had a horrible timing, the timing on Kenny's vote to kick him out was just as horrible, which kept everyone in the room for more time than they should've stayed there, and ended up in Brie's death.


    [*]If Ben had just told Kenny to shoot him or give him the gun in the alley, Kenny wouldn't have sacrificed himself. Okay, it was Kenny's decision to stay back (keep in mind his weight also broke the balcony), I really can't understand why people blame Ben here. It's not his fault he fell. He was probably scared as fuck, the way he says "OH GOD, DON'T LET THEM GET TO ME" shows how he didn't want to die there.
    [/LIST]

    Seriously, blaming everything on only one character is even more annoying than 'people defending him'. He is indeed linked to many character's deaths, but so are a lot of other people, including Lee. The main reason most people started hating him is because of Carley and Doug, who stood up for him, by the way.



    You make some good arguments. I'll admit, the Kenny one is a stretch. I recant that one. I still stick by the others, but I'll like to address your first point about the bandits. Lee says the bandits gave them hell. I think they could've held their own at least until the RV was fixed. And, as far as I knew, no one had been injured when the bandits attacked. I'm assuming Ben heard the whole story about what happened the the St. Johns, were Mark was attacked. Bandits attacked them despite having a deal, so Ben should've known they couldn't be trusted.

    I don't like Ben because he's dead weight as a character. I saved him because I didn't support the Crawford, but seriously, what's the appeal of him? Are you just defending him to defend him?

  • @Doctanian said: You make some good arguments. I'll admit, the Kenny one is a stretch. I recant that one. I still stick by the others, but I'll like to address your first point about the bandits. Lee says the bandits gave them hell. I think they could've held their own at least until the RV was fixed. And, as far as I knew, no one had been injured when the bandits attacked. I'm assuming Ben heard the whole story about what happened the the St. Johns, were Mark was attacked. Bandits attacked them despite having a deal, so Ben should've known they couldn't be trusted.

    I don't like Ben because he's dead weight as a character. I saved him because I didn't support the Crawford, but seriously, what's the appeal of him? Are you just defending him to defend him?



    It's probably due to the fact I can relate to him, being a teenager myself. And I don't know how you feel about this, but the way everyone treats him just isn't right. Sure he can't pull his own weight, but he is trying his best and he's not a bad person, he's just a bit dumb at times.

    I defend him because in his shoes I'd probably be just as scared, and I'd want someone to stick by me like my Lee did for him. And like I said, I don't think it's fair to put the blame of those things solely on him, because if you look at the situation as a whole, you'll see that these stuff happen because of multiple reasons, not only because of Ben. At least that's how I see it. And I don't really see a reason for playing the blame game, so I'm able to forgive those characters easily for making those mistakes when I try to look at the situation from their angle.

  • I always assumed the group was on high alert since the bandits attacked constantly every day(arrow shafts in walls), but when Ben started trading with them, the attacks stopped and the group let their guard down. Then, when the bandits attacked suddenly and out of the blue, they weren't expecting it because they hadn't attacked for several days.

    At the very least, i think Ben gave the bandits the element of surprise. Sure, they might have still led a full raid like they did, but the group would be expecting it and would be more prepared for it.

    I liked Ben myself, but even he admits that it's his fault.

  • If Lee had found the stash, left it and just observed who went to collect, they would have found out about the bandits too. Or if he watched out for who went to put it out there the next time. There are quite a few what if's that could change a situation.

  • @Doctanian said: WOAH WOAH WOAH WOAH. Hold the fucking phone. Don't you dare accuse me of saying that it's a woman's fault if she's raped. I'm someone who's volunteered at women's shelters, so by you having the audacity to even say that depresses me. That's probably the most nonsensical and offensive analogy I've ever heard. We're talking about a fictional character in a video game, calm the fuck down and chill with the ludicrous accusations.

    I don't even wanna debate with you, I'm sorry if you felt offended at my comments, but it's just a fucking game and I was just openly discussing it with you. No need to say that I condone rape and that I blame victims.

    And that comparison doesn't even work, I would have to be blaming Carley for her death rather than Ben.


    That's fine, I can assume you have nothing valid to respond with. The analogy is valid no matter how much it offends you, you're blaming the victims instead of those who actually commited those acts, it's sickening.

    You may have volunteered at womens shelters, good for you...

    I lived in one.

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