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Ben didnt really prove himself in the end.

posted by DarcKage on - last edited - Viewed by 493 users

Which is a damn shame.

Yeah, he finally stood up to Kenny and told him what's up, which was good. But he was still a liability in the end. I really feel sorry for the poor kid, he couldnt do anything right and died a horrible death.

- got several people killed.
- Got bitched at all the time and treated like a kid.
- Never got to see his family.
- Had to live for a while with the guilt of indirectly killing Katjaa/Duck.
- Died in an alleyway surrounded by walkers with no one but the guy who hated his guts all this time by his side.
- Probably never got laid.

Such a sad story. :(

73 Comments - Linear Discussion: Classic Style
  • @cormoran said: No you wouldn't have, you simply have nothing to respond with, you know your stance on the matter of Ben is asinine at best and so you attempt to avoid the entire issue by getting all hot under the collar like it means something.

    You blame the victims in this game, you blame the victims in real life. Don't give me that "it's different" crap, it shows the type of person you are. I don't see you blaming the bandits for attacking or coercing Ben to cooperate, I don't see you blaming Lilly for shooting Carly/Doug, no, you blame Ben.


    I know why too, you're too much of a coward to blame those you can't see brought to justice, but Ben, he's still around, you can punish him. You don't care if you blame the right people or not.



    I just defended my positions with another poster who was much more polite than you. Just sayin'. And I even agreed with him on one point and recanted my statement. Ben isn't to blame for Kenny's death.

    The thread was discussing Ben's connections to deaths. At least, that's what the posters were doing at the time. I simply outlined them. Of course Lilly killed Carley, but to ignore the motivations behind that is absurd. The thread is about Ben, so his actions and consequences will be highlighted. Just like Campman could blame Lee for talking his family's food and indirectly killing them, we can highlight Ben's actions as well.

    It is different. Thanks for equating real life with video games. You basically put video games and rape in the same league as one another. Congratulations.

    My opinion on a piece of fiction doesn't reflect who I am as a person. I enjoy horror (Walking Dead for example) that doesn't mean I enjoy people being terrorized in real life.

    How is Ben a victim, exactly? Please, explain that to me.

  • @Doctanian said:
    How is Ben a victim, exactly? Please, explain that to me.



    Well nobody cared about him, he tried to do his best (even if it wasn't much) and nobody gave him some kind of recognition, Lilly and Kenny wanted to kill him,... Shall I continue?

  • @Kaserkin said: Well nobody cared about him, he tried to do his best (even if it wasn't much) and nobody gave him some kind of recognition, Lilly and Kenny wanted to kill him,... Shall I continue?



    I backed Ben up. I fed him food, I constantly talked to him, and I even defended him against Lilly along with Carley. I supported him. I voted to keep him. I saved him. I brought him with me at the end of Episode 4. Lee and Clem were Ben's biggest supporters, so you can't act like people didn't care.

    Kenny and Lilly really had nothing against Ben until Lilly suspected him of dealing with the bandits, which turned out to be true. Kenny didn't truly hate Ben until Ben choose to tell Kenny about the bandits and how it affected Katjaa and Duck.

    In relation to Carley, Doug and Duck, who's deaths he indirectly caused. How is he a victim?

    That's like me setting up a faulty bridge, someone walking across it only to fall to their deaths. How am I the victim?

  • How are you a victim? Anyway Ben is a teenager, a particular insecure person in a particularly insecure period of life. And this is without zombies and psycho bitches with guns. Except for Lee and Doug/Carley, nobody supported him. You are right, he screws up way too much, but making him a flawed character in contrast with other people makes him believable.
    Btw, the hatchet and confessing to Kenny at the worst moment possible was stupid even for him

  • @cormoran said: That's fine, I can assume you have nothing valid to respond with. The analogy is valid no matter how much it offends you, you're blaming the victims instead of those who actually commited those acts, it's sickening.

    You may have volunteered at womens shelters, good for you...

    I lived in one.



    I agreed with your points originally, you can spend all day pointing out characters who could have indirectly killed someone. I do think that if a walker kills you, even if someone else causes it, its a walker that kills you. But seriously....your comment that you made about him was so out of line. You don't know that, and the analogy is ridiculous. Remember it is just a game that we all are talking about, and there is no reason to be mean to someone else over it.

  • @cormoran said: People like you blame a woman for being raped, instead of the rapist who raped her. Zombies killed Duck, Katjaa killed herself, Lilly/Zombies killed Doug/Carly, Zombies killed Chuck, Zombies killed Brie, Zombies killed Kenny. End of story.



    Whoa. Shit. I didn't see this part. You need to chill the hell out with the ad hominem attacks about someone's character.

  • Not all of us that saved Ben were holier than thou types that said he would redeem himself. I said before episode 5 that I had saved Ben in Crawford, and I wondered what horrible death awaited him in 5. I never thought he would redeem himself, but I didn't think he wasn't worth saving. It isn't as though he ran around slitting people's throats in their sleep or something.
    He is a kid. His brain isn't even fully formed. He has lived through his worst nightmare for months prior to when we meet him. He has seen friends and mentors die, has not had contact with his family, has most likely been running and hiding with very little food and sleep, all of which affect his judgement. He did not see the consequences of his actions the way others would. Neither, for example, does the teenage boy trying to "surf" on top of a buddy's car; he thinks it will be a blast, the neighbors think the idiot will end up roadkill.
    It does not mean that he couldn't learn from his mistakes, and if given the chance, grow up to be a useful member of any group. So I didn't take that chance away from him.

  • Well, Ben did at least do SOMETHING. He DID prove he wasn't a coward by standing up to Kenny. Kenny, the man who's family died because of him, the man who on several occasions wanted Ben to die and probably would have dropped Ben without a moment's hesitation if he were in Lee's place at Crawford. He made Kenny see Ben's side of things and finally realize how terrible he'd been acting toward Ben. And in the end, Kenny actually forgave the kid who was responsible for his family's death. He even elected to try and save the kid even when it seemed impossible, and knew it would very well likely result in his death as well.

    And, if you notice, during the mansion siege Ben actually sounds confident. He's probably afraid, yeah, but he has control of it. He doesn't let the fear dictate his actions because he knows that everyone else is counting on him to step up and help get everyone out of the mess they were in. He actually keeps a cool head, kills walkers (possibly his first) and even saves Lee's gun after it fell. I think that he redeemed himself by actually being a productive member of the group, not panicking, and pulling his weight. Hell, he doesn't even seem to be begging for Kenny and Lee to save him in the alley, he just doesn't want to get ripped apart. Sure he didn't save everyone's lives, or kill a million walkers, but him turning his act around and gaining his confidence was enough for someone like Ben.

  • @Kaserkin said: How are you a victim? Anyway Ben is a teenager, a particular insecure person in a particularly insecure period of life. And this is without zombies and psycho bitches with guns. Except for Lee and Doug/Carley, nobody supported him. You are right, he screws up way too much, but making him a flawed character in contrast with other people makes him believable.
    Btw, the hatchet and confessing to Kenny at the worst moment possible was stupid even for him



    Oh no, no, don't get me wrong, Ben is a very believable character. But that doesn't mean I have to like him and sympathize with him, lol. I think Ben's one of those love or hate characters. Kinda like Lilly, who I love but people hate.

  • @RainbowSprinklz said: I agreed with your points originally, you can spend all day pointing out characters who could have indirectly killed someone. I do think that if a walker kills you, even if someone else causes it, its a walker that kills you. But seriously....your comment that you made about him was so out of line. You don't know that, and the analogy is ridiculous. Remember it is just a game that we all are talking about, and there is no reason to be mean to someone else over it.



    Thanks mate. I'm just here for a debate, I didn't want it to get so serious.

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