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[SPOILERS] Ep. 3 Carley/Doug... Relax.

posted by Fiddle Diddle on - last edited - Viewed by 2.7K users

Alright alright, I realize that a lot of you are upset about (please go away if you haven't played ep. 3) Carley and Doug. As far as I can tell, only about 101% of you think that what happened in ep. 3 was lazy screenplay. However, I think it'd be better for everyone's sanity if we just try to interpret this differently.

Carley and Doug are cool, but let's face it, they're minor characters. Despite this, they're still not the same character, so stop calling them Carley/Doug. There is at least one big difference I can think of: Carley insists that you share your past with the group. I haven't done my Doug play-through yet but I can't imagine him doing the same because he simply doesn't know about you. I'll rescind this if somebody is willing to correct me here.

Yet still, they are minor characters. They don't have *much* time to develop (well, at least more than Chet, come on people), and they pretty much kick the bucket in identical fashion. Their fate still serves a purpose though. Admit it, your jaw dropped. It was shocking. But more than that, it represents the imminent disintegration of the group.

Most importantly, we should be thinking of what happened to Carley and Doug less in terms of themselves and more in terms of what it means to other, more substantial characters. Without spoiling anything else, Lilly and Ben in particular will be affected depending on how you handle things.

So, no, stop it, don't angrily slam your keyboard against the wall. Go outside for a walk, take a deep breath, admit that I'm right :cool:

55 Comments - Linear Discussion: Classic Style
  • Jeez, do people really think that episodic stuff just happens in a vacuum? "What's gonna happen in the finale? Anyone write that yet? We don't have a finale? Dear god, what are we going to do now?"

  • It became clear in this episode that the choices you make have very, very, very little impact on the game. And that's pretty disappointing considering the developers' ad nauseum claims to the contrary.

    I loved Episodes 1 and 2, and was quite excited for this one, but my level of engagement has now plummeted. In addition to the unfortunate revelation that the developers were only TALKING a big a game about the importance of choices, the script in this episode was rather lame as well. The quality and authenticity of the dialogue just wasn't there.

    I'm likely to finish out Episodes 4 and 5, just because I've already invested this much time in it, but I'm sorely disappointed and probably won't return for the "second season."

  • @RaceCarAndyMan said: It became clear in this episode that the choices you make have very, very, very little impact on the game. And that's pretty disappointing considering the developers' ad nauseum claims to the contrary.

    I loved Episodes 1 and 2, and was quite excited for this one, but my level of engagement has now plummeted. In addition to the unfortunate revelation that the developers were only TALKING a big a game about the importance of choices, the script in this episode was rather lame as well. The quality and authenticity of the dialogue just wasn't there.

    I'm likely to finish out Episodes 4 and 5, just because I've already invested this much time in it, but I'm sorely disappointed and probably won't return for the "second season."

    You'll be back lol, and then if something you don't like happens in season 2 you'll complain and say something like this again.:D

  • @ItsMeArmani said: You'll be back lol, and then if something you don't like happens in season 2 you'll complain and say something like this again.:D

    You're free to think what you want (grating and obnoxious as it is to break out an emoticon and offer up a smarmy remark), but no, I most likely won't be. I chose a career path that isn't financially rewarding, so 5 bucks is not insignificant to me. If I didn't have so much OCD about completing something, I would've stopped after Episode 3.

  • @Fiddle Diddle said: Exactly my point! Their deaths are not pointless, they serve to affect other characters. BTW, I think there's more to Lilly's involvement than just "being ejected from the story." I think that Lilly is coming back, and depending on how you treat her after she gets all trigger-happy will determine how she comes back.

    Yet it was STILL heart-wrenching to see them go. That despair you feel happens all the time when we look at the real world and see meaningless there too. Let's just let the storytellers do their job; they developed Carley and Doug as much as they wanted to. Now it's time to develop more characters and keep the revolving doors swinging.

    What?? Lilly is coming back to the group?? Over my dead body! Please tell me that I have the option to reject this! Or die trying. I won't allow her to be back to my group. If I am forced to let her in, then I guess no more TWD for me.

    @Fiddle Diddle said: Admittedly, I replayed that part of the episode like 5 times in an effort to either prevent anyone from dying or just get Ben killed instead. After I figured that it was impossible to save Carley, I figured that I better side with Poor Ben because I knew that he'd be sticking with me.

    Wait, so you sold out and ass-kissing Ben? I'm really sorry for sounding condescending but wow man. Just wow.

  • Sorry to bring this back up again but I just completed ep. 3 over the weekend so I wanted to weigh in my thoughts on this situation. Through out the episode I was afraid that Carley might die due to the heavy flirtation between her and Lee. I thought though that it might be from a zombie attack, bite, bandits. A bite could have been drawn out and depressing too. But the way it happened was just so fast. When I saw Lilly reach for her gun I knew her fate was sealed. Also played the part again and looked up if there was a way to save her. It's unfortunate. It's very climactic that this character gets killed not by a walker or bandit by a member of the group in a fast thoughtless sense. It goes to show you just how quickly you can lose someone and how vulnerable we all are.

    I know it was a heated situation but I wish they would have given me the option to say "let's get this all figured out later, not right now" I would have pushed for that and Lilly may have listened. At another time it could have saved Carley by allowing Lilly a chance to calm down.

    I do think that this scene is very significant. As mentioned earlier it serves as a breaking point for the group. Lilly realizes her mistake which cues her exit. It also is eliminates the last strong leg of the group (other than Lee excluding Clem) since Kenny is about to lose his mind and Ben is constantly fucking up. Everyone thereafter is too new to just "replace" the character we just lost. For me I had hard time connecting or even really caring about Chuck, Omid, or Christa after this lol.

  • @eblocksonian said: I find it ironic that people get mad that people die in a Zombie game.


    I think the issue is more about how they die. Some deaths are more believable than others. Based on my knowledge of Lily I couldn't see her killing someone in cold blood like she did in episode 3. Lilly was depressed she is not evil. The comic showed her as a remorseful person after she was manipulated by the governor to kill Lori. When she saw what she had done she was crying and out raged by what she was led to do. If you think about how it was handled in the game she wasn't threatened by Carly, Carly hadn't made any sudden movements and her problem was not even with Carly. Ben was the the suspect. She practically killed Carly for calling her a bitch. Kenny has said far worst and had killed her father in cold blood in front of her yet, he lived on. I watched Kenny argue time and time again with Lily and more aggressively in episode 3. Why didn't she get revenge and kill Kenny in his sleep? Because it wasn't in her character. Everything about that death scene was wrong. She was cold and calculating, she knew what she was doing, it was not on the impulse of anger and wasn't a knee jerk reaction. She slowly took out her gun so others wouldn't see and why? Because Carly, like Lee,defended Ben and called her a bitch.

  • @Fiddle Diddle said: Exactly my point! Their deaths are not pointless, they serve to affect other characters. BTW, I think there's more to Lilly's involvement than just "being ejected from the story." I think that Lilly is coming back, and depending on how you treat her after she gets all trigger-happy will determine how she comes back.

    Yet it was STILL heart-wrenching to see them go. That despair you feel happens all the time when we look at the real world and see meaningless there too. Let's just let the storytellers do their job; they developed Carley and Doug as much as they wanted to. Now it's time to develop more characters and keep the revolving doors swinging.


    Lily isn't coming back,Glen isn't coming back,Hershel isn't coming back. The game is meant to be canon. These characters are now with their respective group members from the comics now. The reason they were in the game in the first place was to make the game more authentic. It showed who these characters were with before teaming up with Rick and the governor from the comics. They are cameo appearances. Telltale may have future comic character cross overs but to bring back ones we have scene would effect the time line making the game no longer canon. You get me?

  • @NeonBlade said: I feel the overall episode was not as strong. Narrative or script wise as Episode 1 or Episode 2, but I was grateful for the length of the episode.

    I am one of the few people that saved Doug, and Doug players really got screwed here. I built a good friendship with him, and he was useful. Every instance in the plot made more sense with Doug in contrast to Carley, in regards the scenarios and transitions. Whereas everything felt rushed and slap-dash with Carley.

    I knew Ben was the one giving the bandits the medicine, I knew it in my heart but I couldn't prove it. I should have sided with Lily, but I realise there is no saving Doug. Completely lazy screenplay in this episode.

    Still, the chaotic nature, suddenness led me to choose that me and Clem are going our own way, the group is irreversibly damaged. I still cannot trust Kenny to be rational, and Ben I cannot trust him period after his bold face lies that cost a group member their life, trying to show mercy for him.

    Also how did Clems walkie get fixed?! There was only one person who could have fixed it and it was Doug! Another lazy decision from Tell-Tale. If players chose Carley they should never even hear the man on the Walkie-Talkie, they should be in the dark. As usual rewarding players, instead of making choices matter; Grow a back-bone please.


    Your kidding right? Doug had far less meaning conversations with Lee than Carly did. Doug was an after thought from the start. He was a member of Telltale's technical/I.T team, they practically put him in the game for a joke. Iv'e played the game with Doug and seen him just walking around the camp aimlessly, he has little conversation with the other group members and doesn't get involved in debates. he is a passive on looker for most part. Carly on the over hand has a unique connection with Lee because they share the secret of his past so she serves as emotional support and comforts him the way a wife or a girlfriend comforts their partner, in a way Doug can't. She advises Lee to take charge more and reassures him that the group would look up to him. She gives him encouragement about his parental skills(pointing out how Clem looks up to him and that he is a good care taker) and encourages him to tell the others his secret which is pretty vital since Lilly will expose you otherwise. With all the heart to heart moments Carly has with Lee she is clearly the closest to him after Clementine.

    If anything I would say Doug taking the bullet for Ben seemed more out of place than Carly standing up to Lily. Carly's character and personality was the same through out the episodes. She stood up to Lily in episode 1. Doug is a coward, avoids conflict and never saved Lee or Clementine once, yet he does a Kevin Costner bodyguard dive to save Ben, who he has known for a week. Hmmm!

    Lastly Clementines's radio wasn't broken in the first place. She thought it was broken because the batteries weren't working. When she get's the batteries from the looted car her radio is working again. How do I know this because Doug wasn't in episode 2 in my current game.

  • @BigDoktor said: This is the damn zombie apocalypse. Not everyone will get a chance to get an appropriate send-off. I had a budding relationship with Carley, and the game really made me think that was going to go somewhere and then they hit me with her death like a truck. This episode is all about how you can't always take control of what's happening around you, it's about how you react to situations that are out of control. Lilly killing Carley made my Lee go over the edge and abandon Lilly, despite their respective relationship. Lee is learning the hard way what lengths he has to go through to keep his loved ones safe, even if that means taking a pragmatic approach to survival. Carley/Doug's death wasn't a result of lazy writing. It was meant to serve as a catalyst for Lee's determination and a reminder that things will not always go how you planned. Most of the original group is dead and those that remain have blood on their hands. Lee has to learn to deal with people he's had bad blood with instead of cooperating with those that agree with him. I think that fact makes it a very beautiful thing. We all fantasize about how we'd hand-pick our survival group and kick anyone out who didn't agree with us. In the real world you have to deal with people who are absolute idiots or assholes, and The Walking Dead is acknowledging that.


    I hear what your saying and though your post was well written i'm incline to disagree. I think Telltale did cut corners in their writing due to time constraints which can be considered as lazy. I say this because of inconsistencies in character behavior and personalities, something that game reviewers have also picked up on.

    2 points I would address to explain what i'm talking about here. Carly's death seemed out of place. Based on my knowledge of Lilly from the comics, I say this. At that point in the game she was depressed and in a dark place, I get that, but she isn't an evil character. In the game, which is said to be canon,she practically killed Carly for calling her a bitch. Carly had made no sudden movements and was no threat to Lilly, she killed her for standing up for Ben which Lee had also done. When she killed her it was not a knee jerk reaction on the impulse of anger it was thought out, a cold and calculating act, she slowly took out her gun so the others couldn't see. This doesn't seem like the Lilly from the comics who cried after the governor manipulated her to kill Lori and Judith which led to her being out raged by the governors wickedness. She kills Carly for calling her a bitch yet Kenny had called her much worst,killed her dad in cold blood in front of her yet he lived on. I watched Kenny argue with Lilly countless times and more aggressively in episode 3 yet Carly never sought revenge or tried to kill him in his sleep but kills Carly for calling her a bitch. It would have been more believable if she pulled the gun on Carly as a warning and the two got into a struggle and the gun went off.

    Secondly Doug has been a coward through out the series despite Carly's account of him saving her (We will never know how that really happened, was it thought out or accidental?)that is why he is on look out because he doesn't like guns and isn't good in a fight, he avoids conflict and never saved Lee or Clementine once, yet he does a Kevin Costner bodyguard dive to save Ben, who he has known for a week. It would of been more realistic if the walker under the RV bit him before Kenny killed it.

    Episode 1 seemed to give more alternative scenarios than episode 3. The scenario to leave Clem's house at night or day made the game play out a little differently, choosing to save Doug or Carly made the game play out differently. It was a great idea of making choices matter in the game. The first episode is still used in Telltales advertising campaign, for good reason it is the best example of the tailor made experience they speak of. season 3 didn't really have those same type of alternate sequences. The episode had the same scenes with variations of dialogue. Lily kills Doug or Carly. That is why some will say the writing is lazy. It is when comparing it to how episode 1 and 2 played out, possibly because of time constraints.

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