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not lee! noooooo

posted by Burfrickydur on - last edited - Viewed by 1.9K users

just finished ep 5. great story, i dunno about that ending tho! lee better not be dead!

much like the tv series i feel like if certain characters die (glen and daryl mostly) i'd stop watching. ill check out season 2 to see how clem made out but if lee is dead...

for me clem and lee make the game what it is. just my opinion

80 Comments - Linear Discussion: Classic Style
  • @dee23 said: Dude! not after 5 episodes. Are you aware of how long Rick Grimes and his 9 year old son Carl have been surviving this apocalypse? They have been through far more than Lee could have even imagined. Even Carl has been shot on 2 different occasions and no one see's them as invincible. The walking dead comics have some of the most realistic writing you will will ever read, pacing is the key to the comic's success. Characters don't die in every episode and key characters don't die in every story arc. Lee's 5 episodes equate to only 13 weeks of survival in the zombie apocalypse. Telltale were too trigger happy with regards to killing of their characters. When you compare the game characters lives to those in the comics they had it pretty easy. The were stationed in the motor inn for 3 months and died between 1 and 2 days after leaving it. Rick's group have spent most of the apocalypse on the road, moving from place to place. So I personally would not have seen Lee as an invincible character if he survived the 5 episodes considering that would only have been 13 weeks of survival, even Maggie has survived far longer and she tried to hang her self.

    i think some people do think of them as invincible, some people don't even like them and i would bet plot armour has something to do with that, I'm just glad we got a real ending to the season not just an end to an episode that leads onto the next, also you saw what got Lee, that could happen to anyone it's not because he sucks at surviving he just got caught and bitten

  • @Zargus said: How was it useless? You taught Clem how to survive in this world. If my actions keep even one person alive for as long as possible after I have died then all my choices would have been worth it.

    Yes but World War Z HAD an ending so people could survive from day one. The Walking Dead I am 100% sure will only end when sales in the comic book fall and so far I doubt that is going to happen even after Rick's approximate 300 Issue lifespan so The Walking Dead will have no ending. The world that everyone knew in The Walking Dead is gone and this is the world that everyone lives with now and will always live in. There is no going back and there is no way to stop the outbreak because everyone is infected.

    Why do you think Robert Kirkman pitched the idea of making The Walking Dead TV Show with this line...."The Zombie Movie That Never Ends."? Because it is.


    Well the walking dead is planned to have 300 issues, so Kirkman does plan to finish the story.

  • @Zargus said: How was it useless? You taught Clem how to survive in this world. If my actions keep even one person alive for as long as possible after I have died then all my choices would have been worth it.

    Yes but World War Z HAD an ending so people could survive from day one. The Walking Dead I am 100% sure will only end when sales in the comic book fall and so far I doubt that is going to happen even after Rick's approximate 300 Issue lifespan so The Walking Dead will have no ending. The world that everyone knew in The Walking Dead is gone and this is the world that everyone lives with now and will always live in. There is no going back and there is no way to stop the outbreak because everyone is infected.

    Why do you think Robert Kirkman pitched the idea of making The Walking Dead TV Show with this line...."The Zombie Movie That Never Ends."? Because it is.


    Well the walking dead is planned to have 300 issues, so Kirkman does plan to finish the story. In interviews he has talked about being in 2 minds about killing of Rick but says if he does he would do it towards then end i.e towards the 300th episode.

    Different people are going to see the ending differently. It's about outlook I suppose. Are you a cup half full or a half empty kind a guy. It's good that you can see something positive in the ending with the idea of your choices enabling Clementine's survival. Personally, I don't see the ending that way. There wasn't anything that you could have said in the game that would change the outcome. Clementine was predestined to survive episode 5 no matter what and Lee was predestined to die which is why the game does not continue if she is killed in the jewellery store. The game made you/us feel like you were contributing to her education but how many times in the series did Lee sit down and teach her about survival and how many of those moments were optional? As I remember in the game Lee didn't begin to prepare Clementine for life without him until the end of episode 3 when he taught her to shoot and advised her to keep her hair short. Lee engaged little with her in episode 4 since he kept getting split up, either deliberately when going off with Kenny to find a boat or when separated in the sewers and she was absent for most of episode 5. If you tell Clementine to avoid strangers or go to the country at the end It won't make a difference to her survival in season 2 because she will be written to survive one way or another if she is in season 2. It's an illusion that her survival is based on your choices as Lee in season 1. That is illusion but what was real was Lee's vision, his dream and goal after being bitten. The only thing he cared about was knowing that Clementine would be safe after he died and that she would be raised by Omid and Christa. Sadly Lee died not knowing if she would be safe and died before he could reunite her with Omid and Christa. He died during his mission. He died with out completing his mission. He couldn't continue to keep Clementine safe and reunite her with her new carers. In the end she had to keep her self safe by running and avoiding the walkers which is something she was doing since before Lee and her met.(Remember the forest at the beginning of episode 1)

    The fact is, no matter how you look at it Lee got screwed over by Telltale for the purpose of shock value and to force an emotional impact. That is what Telltale were going for all along. They wanted people to be sad, cry and remember the experience. The ending was so sad many are trying to put a positive spin on it to make themselves feel better. Lee knew he had failed the moment he was bitten, hence his response. His motivation for survival has always been about keeping Clementine safe. Ep 5 he accepted he could not do this so the next best thing was for Omid and Christa to take on the torch of responsibility. He knew and felt that his death would only be worth while if he could get Clementine back from the stranger and hand her over to Omid and Christa who he could trust to take as good care for her as he would but his time ran out before he could do this. Even if Clementine did some how manage to find Omid and Christa which would have been Lee's dying wish, Lee would not have known she found them before he died. That is what is so tragic about the ending.

  • I've seen Kirkman say that Rick will die eventually and that the series would continue on without him. I've also seen him say that he may end TWD around the 300th issue and I've also seen him say that he may just continue it until he's stopped.

    Back on topic, TWD works as an emotional experience but fails as a game.

    To feel some sense of achievement that I had properly prepared Clementine for survival, it would have to be possible for me not to achieve this. It isn't. She lives no matter what, meaning there's no achievement.

    It would have been neat, after Lee's death, to have a sequence where we watch Clementine escape Savannah on her own, with all her decisions dependent on how Lee influenced her, with failure/death a possibiility if you prepared her inadequately.

  • yep the ending is tragic, it's why it was sad, if lee had died with Clementine, Omid and Christa it wouldn't really have the impact it had

  • @Sodawasser said: It isn't the whole episode 1 group dead besides Clem. After the Lilly of the game isn't the same Lilly of the comics (like I heard) it is possible to see her again. I also wouldn't bet my money on it but it isn't impossible that they bring back Kenny too. "Only" Carley, Doug, Duck, Katjaa, Larry, Ben, Mark are surely dead (if you only count those which have been in the group for a longer time)
    Maybe TellTale even troll our expections and let Omid/Christa die and Kenny survive^^

    I don't think that they let them all die too early in the storyline. The death of Katjaa/Duck was dramatically and good. I really liked it to see how it changed Kenny, it was a good story.
    Larrys death was also okay, without that death there would have been much less rivality in the group -> less drama -> worse story. Also the Lee death was good story telling in my opinion. I only agree about Carley/Doug. I didn't like their death because of nothing. I even think that this scene was the only one which could have been done better (I only speak about the story)


    Why would you think that the Lilly in the game is a different Lilly from the comics? Telltale confirmed from day one that the game had cameo appearances; Glenn, Hershel and Lilly. That was their way of making the game authentic. Telltale said they thought it would be cool to show what shaped Lilly into becoming the character from Woodbury we see in the comics. The game is canon to the original comic's story and of the same branch from walking dead universe unlike the TV show. So by now Glenn from the game is with Rick, Hershel's barn holds walkers and Lilly is on the road to Woodbury or there already.

    Regarding the point I made about the deaths in the story, I suppose that is down to opinion, but for me I didn't feel anything when, Chuck died,when Ben died, when Lee buried the boy in the attic and I wouldn't have been moved by Omnid or Christa's deaths because I barely knew these characters. My point was that all of the characters that I personally cared about were killed of by episode 3 accept Lee and Clementine. Although this is all only an opinion, I don't think anyone can deny that Cary dying in the sewer scene would have been more emotional than when Chuck died there.

  • @thestalkinghead said: i think some people do think of them as invincible, some people don't even like them and i would bet plot armour has something to do with that, I'm just glad we got a real ending to the season not just an end to an episode that leads onto the next, also you saw what got Lee, that could happen to anyone it's not because he sucks at surviving he just got caught and bitten


    No it doesn't. At no time has Carl worn body armor. When Rick was shot and put in a comma before the apocalypse he wasn't wearing body armor, When Carl was shot near Hershel's farm he wasn't wearing body armor, When Rick was shot in his stomach at the prison he wasn't wearing body armor and when Carl was shot in his face he wasn't wearing a bullet proof helmet. they had surgery and spent months in recovery. It was touch and go. Kirkman's way of showing us no one is safe in this world.

    With regards to Lee getting bitten, of cause that could happen to anyone but it was a cheap death for a protagonist and a death more fitting for a "red shirt" or a supporting character. That is how Amy was bitten. I would bet anything and everything that her sister Andrea will be given a better death because of her alertness and ability to survive. Someone like Abraham would have been killed in a way that couldn't be prevented(an arrow to the back of the head). I couldn't imagine a character like him being surprised by a single walker, Kirkman would give them a better death, making them harder to kill.

  • @dee23 said: No it doesn't. At no time has Carl worn body armor. When Rick was shot and put in a comma before the apocalypse he wasn't wearing body armor, When Carl was shot near Hershel's farm he wasn't wearing body armor, When Rick was shot in his stomach at the prison he wasn't wearing body armor and when Carl was shot in his face he wasn't wearing a bullet proof helmet. they had surgery and spent months in recovery. It was touch and go. Kirkman's way of showing us no one is safe in this world.

    With regards to Lee getting bitten, of cause that could happen to anyone but it was a cheap death for a protagonist and a death more fitting for a "red shirt" or a supporting character. That is how Amy was bitten. I would bet anything and everything that her sister Andrea will be given a better death because of her alertness and ability to survive. Someone like Abraham would have been killed in a way that couldn't be prevented(an arrow to the back of the head). I couldn't imagine a character like him being surprised by a single walker, Kirkman would give them a better death, making them harder to kill.

    plot armour http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PlotArmor

    and i didn't think it was cheap, but that's my opinion

  • I understand your argument that Lee dying at the end of 5 episodes being different compared to the hundreds of planned issues revolving around Rick. Telltale doesn't have as big of a story planned out as that though. There may be two seasons. Both of them will focus on Clem, but one is told through Lee's eyes. Killing off Lee midway through that arc isn't as bad when you look at the difference in scale. Rick's survived what I consider five major arcs (but Carl is the character I care more about). Clem will survive at least two. I don't think - in light of Clem's significance - that Lee deserves plot armor.

  • thanks for all your honest replies. its just how i feel keep in mind people play games for different reasons. i know the walking dead is all about everyone dieing and suffering i mean yea everyone eventually dies. being it getting zombiefied or just dieing because of natural events.

    my issue is killing off lee in my eyes is kind of a bad idea even though its staying true to the comic books (never read them not interested tbh). for me telltale's game was all about the chemistry between lee and clem. I.E when the bandits attacked their hotel and lee shot a couple dudes and clem ran to lee and they hugged before she ran into the RV then duck and his mother got tackled by a zombie. that may not have happened if and clem and lee weren't so close. i saw things like that and telltale loaded the game with stuff like that involving them. without lee there its not the the same game nor story.

    i'm not a happy ending disney movie style kind of person. to put some contrast out there... in dragon age i sacrificed my main character at the end and considered that a really good ending.

    every time someone ended up offering to take clem from you for her good they ended up being a whack job. lee is/was the only one capable of taking care of clem imo. lets be honest here... clem randomly running into another good person that will take care of her just by chance is more outlandish then lee surviving a zombie bite and being shot in the head.

    i hope i covered everyone's responses while avoiding a wall of text

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