User Avatar Image

Team Lily to the end (appreciation thread)

posted by YamiRaziel on - last edited - Viewed by 4.4K users

This topic contains Comic book spoilers. Read at your own risk

I guess I may be the only one here who would still support Lily if she shows up at some future point in time.
Why?
I appreciate her leadership skills, her selflessness (having to make all those little decisions is really difficult) and her reasoning. She tried to keep this group together, she did her very best but some other people...like Kenny always tried to have it their way, always consider what's only best for his family.
I think we all agree it was difficult giving the rations the first time in episode two. We got a glimpse of what she has to do every day. People hated us for those choices, so they hate her even more for having to do it every day. But there's no one else who would do it.

She was still pretty reasonable until Kenny murdered her father. People can complain that he saved them and all that crap... but you couldn't have known for sure and that's the truth. He overreacted and again being the selfish asshole he is, he did the easiest choice for him. Eliminate the enemy and undermine the leader's authority.

In episode 3 we see things haven't changed. Lily is still the only one to really tries to protect the group. Lee, of course, helps always and as much as he can, but others like Kenny... they didn't even feel bad for what they did in episode 2. Kenny ruined this group and yet he still wanted things to go his way. He kept pushing Lily without really doing anything for the group. He was determined to abandon all.
Carley... she didn't really do anything. She could've stepped in and helped Lily when she saw she was about to snap... but she didn't. The only thing she actually did was tease Lee, look cute, and avoid participation in almost every important discussion. The downfall in episode 3 is partially her fault as well.
When the bandits attacked the group it was again Lily that came to the rescue to a group that hated her. Kenny wouldn't swallow my disrespect for him and actually tried to get me killed too many times in this episode.
Ben... and Kenny really started a chain reaction. With both their stupidity combined they managed to indirectly kill Carley, Katjaa and Duck as well destroy the group from within.
Both cowards and both DUBM as a bag of hammers.
I would so love to see them gone in episode 4 & 5. I don't need stupid people in my group, people who know nothing about responsibility or humanity.


It was sad to see Lily snap but I guess there is a line as to where a person can take it. In the end of the day I'm sure she'll regret her choices and will eventually learn from them. She kills Lorry cause she believes they are threatening her group. When she sees how wrong she was she offs the Governor. That's a pretty redeeming deed in my book, one that clearly shows she actually develops.

I would certainly love to see more of her in future episodes/seasons.

So, am I the only one? :D Even if I am, I will still be defending this position to the end :P

695 Comments - Linear Discussion: Classic Style
  • I'm sorry to say that, but you read her character all wrong, my friend.
    We already talked about her, about Kenny,etc... so I don't want to repeat myself.
    But, I'm sure you can find some clues for why some of people-like me- are in love with her and why they don't share your thoughts, up above the earlier comments. Then, maybe you'd like to read "F*** Kenny" thread, too.

    The only thing I can say in short, I don't think none of your inferences about Lilly is reasonable.
    But, these're only my thoughts though.



    I read the first 3 pages, all saying "Lilly is a badass", I was not gonna read over 20 pages of that but within those 3 pages, only kirby18 had the right thought about her and was put down YamiRaziel saying things about Lilly which are not accurate. I read the first 2 pages of "F*** KENNY", it's basically a kenny bashing thread and again, I was not gonna through 50 pages of that and I'm not saying Kenny was perfect but he's no where near as bad as Lilly.

    I believe I read her character right, I even brought up moments in the game that showed her to be Hypocritical, Lazy, Unreasonable and so on.

    Some clues of why people like her? Well, every character has a fan base even horrible ones, The Governor, Negan, Larry, Shane so I just went with that.

    Also, can we stop with the "She killed Carley!" stuff? She also killed Doug, even if it wasn't intentional.

    Why not? She killed an innocent person that didn't need to die, that's where she crossed the line. Heck, if you Lilly fans keep brining up Kenny killing Larry and making him to be a horrible character then Lilly killing is much worse.

  • @IceRyder said:

    Why not? She killed an innocent person that didn't need to die, that's where she crossed the line. Heck, if you Lilly fans keep brining up Kenny killing Larry and making him to be a horrible character then Lilly killing is much worse.


    I'm not a Lilly "fan", I'm a Kenny "fan". I quote fan because I support some of their decisions, and not all of them. I mentioned Carley because people complain about Carley, but not Doug. I saved Doug so I was pissed at Lilly for killing Doug, not Carley.

  • @IceRyder said: I read the first 3 pages, all saying "Lilly is a badass", I was not gonna read over 20 pages of that but within those 3 pages, only kirby18 had the right thought about her and was put down YamiRaziel saying things about Lilly which are not accurate. I read the first 2 pages of "F*** KENNY", it's basically a kenny bashing thread and again, I was not gonna through 50 pages of that and I'm not saying Kenny was perfect but he's no where near as bad as Lilly.

    I believe I read her character right, I even brought up moments in the game that showed her to be Hypocritical, Lazy, Unreasonable and so on.

    Some clues of why people like her? Well, every character has a fan base even horrible ones, The Governor, Negan, Larry, Shane so I just went with that.



    Why not? She killed an innocent person that didn't need to die, that's where she crossed the line. Heck, if you Lilly fans keep brining up Kenny killing Larry and making him to be a horrible character then Lilly killing is much worse.



    Hello dear Kennylover, :)

    I pointed earlier comments because I didn't want to repeat myself.
    But since you look willing to discuss, I may prepare a brief from my own earlier posts. If you read, you can see why people (like me) likes Lilly and doesn't like Kenny:

    1)
    Your Kenny's sins&faults ARE three times better than our Lilly.
    You can only claim her for not doing that "rationing thing right" or for killing Carley, or stealing the RV. And what then? ? ?

    But I can claim Kenny for not helping Shawn (when he took his own boy he can drop him down and obey him to wind up to his mother and come back to help instead of getting away), I can claim him for killing Larry or stealing from car or leaving me behind with zombies in that drugstore(Ep.03) or pushing me to the edge with his terrible ideas about leaving- killing somebody or something else he wants...
    Or I can claim him for wanting a teenager to die or drinking in a serious situation instead of cooperating with me or for not looking after Clementine, or his desire of not taking everybody on boat, or for yelling at me any single chance he had and criticizing all my decisions...
    If you don't choose "Kenny, I need you" or "Clem is like a family" dialogs in the end, he is turning around and leaving Lee be. WHAT A LIFETIME BRO!

    2)
    It is ridicilous to drink if you are sticking with a group. If you are willing to drink, then go somewhere else or leave the group be as Lilly did, then drink how much you like.
    I can understand his bad feelings after he saw that boy in the attic and I can understand he is drinking because of his grief, but what about Clem? How can he turn his eyes away from her? If he has completely lost his hope for survival; what is he doing along them?

    Lee might be away, Lee might get lost or he might disappear by a sever hole, and what should Kenny do after him? His first thing to do after they came back to their shelter was drinking! Sorry, but I can't forgive this.
    He caused Clem to get lost, but even so he continued reprove Lee severely about the boat, about how they will die etc etc...
    Man, you shouldn't suppose,guess -or whatever- a child that he/she might do or not. You should keep your eyes on them. As always Lee were trying to do. A child is a child, nothing more.

    3)
    I know Lilly IS a murderer and I don't try to reason her behaviour but,
    A)She was "so sure" that someone was helping the bandits: and it was True.
    B)She was just too depressed and angry with that traitor issue, as it caused a little boy to get bitten, and the lost of the motor inn: and it was True.
    C)She ran away, but "I think" she was too ashamed for what she did to continue with the group and maybe she thought it won't be good to be with them neighter for them nor herself: and I think it was True.
    D)No matter what, she were always strong and she were in a good harmony with others until she lost her father: and it is True.
    E) So, I think she is not a cruel person but she has a very dramatic ending: and it is True for me.

    4)
    It is not the issue here: killing Larry.
    The issue here is killing Larry in cold blood in front of his daughter without leaving any little God damn minute to say goodbye. Lilly would be ok if she could spread her last moments with her most beloved (and only left) family member. Maybe some last words...
    I even don't mention the possibility of saving Larry.
    Such rudeness and selfishness. This is nothing about "hard things must be done sometimes" kinda quote.
    This is all independent and most unrespectful thing to do.

    And please don't try to tell us fairytales, Kenny did not do it for the well of the group but he mostly did it to take revenge from Larry for the argument of Duck's bitten issue. He always wanted to get rid of Lilly-Larry coalition, as he is desperately desiring of that leader role of the group (which I don't know why and with which faculty?), he got the chance and used it precisely.

    5)
    Well, I prefer a confused Lilly than a shifty Kenny with me as a companion. Or I prefer her to a "good girl" Carley who never assumed responsibility when though decisions are being made. I loved her too, and I'm not saying she deserved it. But this is WD universe man, You can not just push someone's -with a gun- buttons (hence if she is half mentally ill because of her father's death) freely by yelling at her with insults. I'm trying to keep my sympathies on Lilly, cause she did nothing unstable or bad before her unfortunate lost.

    6)
    Who says that there was a need for "a leader" when Lee was there?
    He is doing AALLL the stuff and I me myself have no intensions for seeking another leader. Who gave Kenny that title? What did he do to earn it? During the whole game, driving that RV I guess.

    7)
    When it comes decision time;
    Lilly was always waiting for the first words from Lee and she looked into Lee's eyes before she opened her mouth to talk.
    Cause she had much respect to Lee's ideas.
    But Kenny,
    His first reactions was always so loud. He was shouting, arguing etc... etc...

    8)
    In spite of I were there for him for nearly all occasions, he was still acting like a loser just because I didn't smash Larry's head, didn't steal from a lone car, didn't leave the lone girl to suffer and didn't drop an innocent young man but other than these I was always there with ALL MY SUPPORT to see him satisfied?
    Kenny can call someone "friend" if they helped him to bust some guy's face.
    Kenny can call someone "friend" if they helped him to steal from a lone car.
    Kenny can call someone "friend" if they let an innocent young boy to fall down from the belltower.
    Kenny's reservations for becoming friends are terrific.

    How much was enough to see him acting like a real man? What did I do wrong to not receive at least such a little satisfaction? I was not expecting anything for Lee, if he could act rightfully in general, he would be ok for me like Larry.

    But he chose to push me into hard situations.
    Do you really think that any of my "failures" above is fail of "ethics" ?

    Well my dear fellow, what type of a guy is that Kenny guy ? ? ?


    9)
    There is something in the world entitle : Respect. Respect to other people's feelings&sufferings.Kenny made a breaking point. And contrary to Lilly, he made this kind of things severely!

    10)
    I strongly recommend you to watch TV series - if you haven't seen them yet, so you can see how people (especially the group leaders) react to those who are about to lose their family members.

    Yes, this is a Zombie Apocalypse which means that it is for everyone, every single person is experiencing the same nightmare and NO ONE is different than the other when you check hard situations, griefs, family issues, etc...

    For further information, please watch Andrea&Amy scene and look for Rick's reaction.
    For more further information, please watch Tyreese&Ben's mother scene- look for Carl's reaction.
    A true leader respects people's feelings.
    Different from these examples, in the game our group was trapped in that meat locker I know, but I think even if a little boy like Carl could treat reasonable with family issues, a man with a family should have known better.
    If it WAS the purpose- blocking Larry from harming anyone in that meat locker- I'd put some salt licks on Larry's different body parts to limit his possible zombie movements than instantly busting Larry's head.

    Because I HAVE A BRAIN which I can use whenever I need.

    But if it was the purpose to kill him, well it depends...

    On the other hand LEEME was there and I really pissed of when Kenny involved the situation which I was already taking care of.

    Now you'll SURELY continue to defend a man(by saying he did everything for his family) who were DOING NOTHING to search for an escape while LEEYOU were looking for an exit from that meat locker.
    Pretty please try to remember his words while you were trying to examine the air went and please remember his answer when you asked him if he had any tools on himself suitable to use on those screws.
    Last time I checked he was not looking like a mainstay of a family who was dying by scratching the walls to save his family.

    God forgive Kenny. I hope he has died in that alley (or in dark room) for the well of the universe.

    11)
    For me, there is only ONE explanation to the situation above all other excuses:

    Kenny doesn't care others' lives and feelings + Kenny panicked + Kenny doesn't have the balls + Kenny looked for a revenge + Kenny wanted to hold all strings in his hands + Kenny was trembling with the idea of a painful death

    =

    Kenny murdered Larry with no hesitation. Dastardly.

    He could wait a little until Lilly saw the situation is ending no good and until she accepts her father's fate. He'd tell her to go to a corner and cover her ears before making any attempt, though.

    12)
    The thing I want you to focus most is:

    I'm NOT arguing killing Larry. The thing here is: KILLING HIM BEFORE UNDERSTANDING HIS CONDITION, SO FAST, SO CRUEL, AND SO UNRESPECTFULLY.
    Yes, no matter what may be the results, again, there is no right of him doing it. Who is Kenny? Executioner? Who said he could decide who will live, or who will die?
    NO one but NO ONE has the right to act like an executioner when it comes to family issues. Kenny shouldn't KILL Larry, because simply he has NO right to do it. Simple. No .ucking right on someone else's life.
    No matter what it was not, never, ever, no way, hell no- his duty.

    Kenny broke the first and the most important rule (and on my angle he caused a chain reaction on others- like Lilly killing Carley etc.)

    He can say " I did it for my family, and for my own life... My life was at stake, too", again this is ok for me too. But after he committed suicide and after he remained alive, he'd pay for what he did. If he only had the balls...
    The thing I'm trying to say is here, HE MAY ACT AS HE WANTS OR AS HE FINDS NECESSARY (in spite of he has no right to do so) , BUT AFTER DOING THE DIRTY WORK HE MUST FACE WITH THE CONSEQUENCES. HE MIGHT HAVE TAKEN THE RESPONSIBILITY OF HIS ACTIONS. But he didn't.

    If this is not enough, he dared to come with an argument with Lilly, about leaving or not leaving the motel. If I were him, I could never look into her eyes because of blaming myself. And mostly because of this, LeeMe didn't think busting Larry's head even just for only one second. I knew I will never explain Lilly how I could act that selfish and that cowardy.
    Kenny couldn't load his sins, but Lilly did. She left the group just after she murdered Carley. I agree she crossed the line but she took responsibility of her actions(yes with stealing their only vehicle).


    13)
    Kenny suddenly came into Lilly's group and started giving orders, making decisions, busting heads etc... So ridiculous.

    14)
    And I'm trying to be reasonable with someone who makes instant deadly mistakes like Lilly. Her reacton was so humanistic to me- it was so primitive, it was so weak which makes all of us "human".
    But I can't support someone whose actions are slippery, cowardy and treachery. And I can't call him a friend in long term. I don't know if I could express myself; I love Lilly because her mistake was about her bad instincts, and I don't love Kenny because his (ton of) mistakeS were all about his personality.

    You are completely free to love Kenny who always pushes you around, forcing you into hard situations, yelling at you, complaining you etc, and I can love an unfortunate murderer. I'm not even talking about claiming the leader role while Kenny has NO way anything about it. He was always all irritating with his words, with his ideas, and with his actions and I'm really speechless how can people call him "friend" after he pushes Lee away when Lee tried to talk to him on that train.


    15)
    I am sorry for you Kennylovers, but not Lilly, not Larry, not Ben, and even not radioman was the reason they are all dead and everything messed up. But with not giving respect to any others' feelings, Kenny did start everything.


    So,

    I prefer a "murderer" with a good attitude than a presuming traitor if I have to call someone "friend".



    I'm really sorry if I bored you all, with this long post. But, I think this is good for me to get my words together if I ever want to point my opinion on Lilly&Kenny again.
    ;)

  • @IceRyder said: I read the first 3 pages, all saying "Lilly is a badass", I was not gonna read over 20 pages of that but within those 3 pages,



    Which of course instantly adds validity to your argument....

    Since you're so eager to disregard what others have said in a thread this long and debated - we should disregard you then? I mean, fair's fair right?

    I mean you're obviously breaking new ground, since you just ignored 21 pages of discussion and arguments to add fuel to a pile of embers.....:rolleyes:

  • Dare I attempt to scale the wall of text that is page 24?

  • To Danno123

    I mentioned Carley because people complain about Carley, but not Doug. I saved Doug so I was pissed at Lilly for killing Doug, not Carley.

    That's because majority of the gamers saved her. Both deaths are messed but Carley's was much worse because Lilly intended to kill her while Doug’s was an accident.

    Now to dukeleto

    Hello dear Kennylover,

    I pointed earlier comments because I didn't want to repeat myself.
    But since you look willing to discuss, I may prepare a brief from my own earlier posts. If you read, you can see why people (like me) likes Lilly and doesn't like Kenny:

    I am not a Kenny Lover but he's no where near as bad as Lilly. I just have common sense to see Lilly for what she is and not what I want her to be. YamiRaziel seems to be the biggest Lilly fanatic and his reasoning’s make no sense so I take it that's what all you Lilly fans arguments to excuse her behaviour are like. From what I've seen, Kenny outshined Lilly, his decisions proved affective and her fans hate him for it.

    1)
    Your Kenny's sins&faults ARE three times better than our Lilly.
    You can only claim her for not doing that "rationing thing right" or for killing
    Carley, or stealing the RV. And what then? ? ?

    But I can claim Kenny for not helping Shawn (when he took his own boy he can drop him down and obey him to wind up to his mother and come back to help instead of getting away), I can claim him for killing Larry or stealing from car or leaving me behind with zombies in that drugstore(Ep.03) or pushing me to the edge with his terrible ideas about leaving- killing somebody or something else he wants...
    Or I can claim him for wanting a teenager to die or drinking in a serious situation instead of cooperating with me or for not looking after Clementine, or his desire of not taking everybody on boat, or for yelling at me any single chance he had and criticizing all my decisions...
    If you don't choose "Kenny, I need you" or "Clem is like a family" dialogs in the end, he is turning around and leaving Lee be. WHAT A LIFETIME BRO!

    It's clear you have not read my arguments that list her flaws and why her sins are much worse. But I'll just examine your arguments and pick them apart.

    Granted Kenny messed up and let Shawn Green die, I'm not defending that, but at least he felt guilty, he had been beating himself up for months, in the train, he breaks down if Lee would bring it up, even if you decide to save Duck, Kenny still takes all the responsibility of Shawn’s death on him, he doesn't bring Lee into the blame. At least he felt some guilt, I can't say the same for Lilly who felt nothing.

    As for Larry, he did it to prevent him from turning. The guy did after all threaten to throw his son out to be eaten alive, did not apologize after being proven wrong, Kenny still tried to help him, he left his friend for dead and became difficult to live with. Let's not forget Kenny was not all to blame, the guy knew he had a bad heart but still went smacking away, Kenny even told him to shut up while Lilly was throwing up(some leader huh, can't even manage her own father). Look through his point of view, 6"4 300 pound possible dead guy can come back as an unstoppable killing machine at any minute, he had to act fast, though he did act harshly but then again, Larry did try to kill you and will do so again. Even what he did, he at least had a reason.

    I'll admit, him leaving you at the drug store like that was messed up but then again, Lilly does that as well, I don't see you condemning her. And the leaving thing, yeah, it turns out to be not such a bad idea after all. He had it right. Lilly put the group in danger by keeping them at the motel with a bandit attack that can strike at any moment and food running out in Macon.

    Have you forgot that the teenager got his family killed and have you also forgot that Lilly tried to kill that teenager and Lilly fans were saying she was right in doing so. So if Kenny does it, it's bad, but if Lilly does it, it's good? Makes your arguments look one sided doesn't it. Let's not forget Lilly wanted Kenny dead so how is Kenny wanting Ben dead any different and knowing the cunt that Lilly is, she would've wanted Lee to drop Kenny if it came to that. Besides, he redeems himself with that teenager by forgiving him and being with him in his final moment and allows himself to be devoured just to put him out of his misery. Would Lilly do that? No, the real Lilly abandoned them.

    Drinking in a situation, really, you're angry at him for that? Put it this way, he's plan is over, there is no boat to escape, a guy on the radio is stalking them. And not taking everyone on the boat, well he can't can he, it's only enough for five people, you're blaming him because they didn't find a yacht in the garage really? And him yelling at you, how many times has Lilly done that and criticized your decisions? Again, you're making this one sided.

    And him stealing from the car, the only person to blame for that was the idiot owner of the car for leaving it there in the first place. With Mark gone and him injured, it was going to be hard for him to find food even before and he saw the opportunity and took it because he knew lazy Lilly was going to have him scavenge anyway and he needed to get food for his friends & family.

    And the last one, Kenny judging you because you didn't side with him, people are like that, at least he's willing to take you on the boat and may I ask you where is Lilly, oh that's right, robbed you, abandoned you and left your group for dead. She's a real hero isn't she.

    2)
    It is ridicilous to drink if you are sticking with a group. If you are willing to drink, then go somewhere else or leave the group be as Lilly did, then drink how much you like.
    I can understand his bad feelings after he saw that boy in the attic and I can understand he is drinking because of his grief, but what about Clem? How can he turn his eyes away from her? If he has completely lost his hope for survival; what is he doing along them?

    Lee might be away, Lee might get lost or he might disappear by a sever hole, and what should Kenny do after him? His first thing to do after they came back to their shelter was drinking! Sorry, but I can't forgive this.
    He caused Clem to get lost, but even so he continued reprove Lee severely about the boat, about how they will die etc etc...
    Man, you shouldn't suppose,guess -or whatever- a child that he/she might do or not. You should keep your eyes on them. As always Lee were trying to do. A child is a child, nothing more.

    Again. Why is this a big deal?
    They were clear of danger at that point.
    The man lost his family, found a dead boy that looked like his son, found that his plans to escape on a boat was dust and realised it was all for nothing while being stalked by The Stranger, all in one day, he's obviously struggling and gave up and is drinking in grief. And not watching Clem, well Clem did wander off in Lee's presence that led to her being kidnapped by the Stranger so blaming him for not watching her is hypocritical considering you didn't watch her as well.

    You can't forgive this yet you can forgive Lilly for murdering an innocent person and leaving 6 people for dead???

    And now you're blaming him for Clem dissappearing? How is it his fault to begin with? she was in the house with Lee while he was working on the boat. It was Lee's responsibility but I'm not going to blame him either. And how did he continue to reprove Lee about the boat? He didn't mention it when he found out Clem was kidnapped, if you're counting about that time he said he was not going to leave it unguarded, well that's smart thinking, he's not dumb like the Stranger and was right, Vernon ended up stealing it so it should've been guarded though he was unsuccessful at guarding it if he stayed behind but at least he put up a fight.

    And you're last sentence, "A child is a child, nothing more."
    Tell me what Lilly did, oh I remember, she abandoned the Child and left not one but two for dead and yet somehow Kenny is a monster and she's a Saint?

    3)
    I know Lilly IS a murderer and I don't try to reason her behaviour but,
    A)She was "so sure" that someone was helping the bandits: and it was True.
    B)She was just too depressed and angry with that traitor issue, as it caused a little boy to get bitten, and the lost of the motor inn: and it was True.
    C)She ran away, but "I think" she was too ashamed for what she did to continue with the group and maybe she thought it won't be good to be with them neighter for them nor herself: and I think it was True.
    D)No matter what, she were always strong and she were in a good harmony with others until she lost her father: and it is True.
    E) So, I think she is not a cruel person but she has a very dramatic ending: and it is True for me.

    A) And she was pointing fingers at anyone, she even tried to accuse Lee so how was she supposed to be taken seriously with her ramblings, even I knew at that point that the traitor was doing it to keep the bandits off there back.
    B) She didn't know the little boy was bitten and the loss of the motor inn was her fault, even if there was no traitor, bandits would've attacked them and possibly have killed them because she arrogantly believed the motor inn was a safe haven.
    C) I would believe that, if she didn't take the RV!! You want to go to spare your friends of your misery then you're welcome to go but don't take something that you never worked on and that something will make the group that includes 2 innocent kids and possibly your friend(if you sided with her) vulnerable, leaving them for dead. The fact that she stole the RV proved that she was nothing but a Backstabbing Weasel looking out for herself. Heck, she didn't even look guilty, she looked like she didn't give a F***. I don't buy that she was ashamed, she knew exactly what she did and didn't feel bad due to her cold, emotionless reaction upon taking the RV.
    D) She killed an innocent person when their back was turned, doesn't do anything, whines and complains, is a bully, is a rotten thief that would leave a little girl to die. Yeah, where is the strong in that?
    E) She took the life of an innocent person for no reason other than her own personal feelings and cowardly left 6 people for dead. She's no different from The Governor & Negan. She's above cruel.

    These 5 are very true, what you have is again, making her out to be something she's not.

    4)
    It is not the issue here: killing Larry.
    The issue here is killing Larry in cold blood in front of his daughter without leaving any little God damn minute to say goodbye. Lilly would be ok if she could spread her last moments with her most beloved (and only left) family member. Maybe some last words...
    I even don't mention the possibility of saving Larry.
    Such rudeness and selfishness. This is nothing about "hard things must be done sometimes" kinda quote.
    This is all independent and most unrespectful thing to do.

    And please don't try to tell us fairytales, Kenny did not do it for the well of the group but he mostly did it to take revenge from Larry for the argument of Duck's bitten issue. He always wanted to get rid of Lilly-Larry coalition, as he is desperately desiring of that leader role of the group (which I don't know why and with which faculty?), he got the chance and used it precisely.

    Really? Rudeness? So it's rude to stay alive?
    And what goodbye? She couldn't let him go and he could've came back at anytime, it was hard thing but he believed it needed to be done for their own survival, I think that quote suits that situation. He could've came back as a cannibalistic dead guy, yeah, then I doubt thought of "Take your time to say goodbye while it would be rude to save ourselves" was going to stick even though she didn't want to say goodbye anyway.

    And fairytale? You would know all about that. As I said, Larry did try to kill his son by wanting to throw him out, what father would forgive that? You think he did that just to be leader? I don't think he had any interest, Lilly was a terrible leader, he saw that. Two things that might've been in his head, Revenge & survival, also Larry did try to kill Lee, don't forget that.

    5)
    Well, I prefer a confused Lilly than a shifty Kenny with me as a companion. Or I prefer her to a "good girl" Carley who never assumed responsibility when though decisions are being made. I loved her too, and I'm not saying she deserved it. But this is WD universe man, You can not just push someone's -with a gun- buttons (hence if she is half mentally ill because of her father's death) freely by yelling at her with insults. I'm trying to keep my sympathies on Lilly, cause she did nothing unstable or bad before her unfortunate lost.

    So you prefer a crazy, lazy, unreasonable, murderous she-devil that would make you do all the work while she does nothing and will kill you if you disagree with her as your companion over a tough guy A-hole that can be reasonable or a cute tough girl that likes you and will definitely have your back? You're asking for a death wish if you want that, remember, one character will have your back to keep you alive, you think Lilly will have your back to keep you alive? No as she shown in the game, Carley would keep you alive, Lilly will ditch you when she gets a chance.

    And when did Carley never assume responsibility when the tough decision is made? Was there even any group discussions, the only one I remember is when you refuse to go to the farm, she participated in that.

    Can you blame her for sticking up for herself, if a crazy bitch was pointing and accusing me of something I never did and had no reason to do so while she was pressuring a weak teen to falsely accept her lie of me being a traitor then yeah, I would be mad too, call her all sorts of names, heck I would slap her because remember, Carley never did anything to her before all that. Carley was even worried about her.
    And you think Lilly did nothing bad before her loss? She would let people die, be a bitch to you, force you to things you decline to do, need I say more.

    6)
    Who says that there was a need for "a leader" when Lee was there?
    He is doing AALLL the stuff and I me myself have no intensions for seeking another leader. Who gave Kenny that title? What did he do to earn it? During the whole game, driving that RV I guess.

    Ummmmm Lilly did. She sure acted like they needed a leader. No one gave Kenny that title because he didn't take it anyway and had no interest, all he cared about was survival of the group. The RV, him searching for food with Lee, not trusting the St John farmers were sure a lot more deserving of a leadership position than Lilly ever did.

    7)
    When it comes decision time;
    Lilly was always waiting for the first words from Lee and she looked into Lee's eyes before she opened her mouth to talk.
    Cause she had much respect to Lee's ideas.
    But Kenny,
    His first reactions was always so loud. He was shouting, arguing etc... etc...

    Where did this even come from? I don't recall her glazing into his eyes romance style and taking an interest. She's only reasonable if you kiss her ass and agree with everything she says, when he says something that disagrees with her motive, she screams and becomes a bitch about it and you try to pass that trait off to Kenny, not saying he's reasonable but he never shouts at you, only once I remenber him shouting at you that's when he's beating you up, Lilly's no different from him but at least Ken is reasonable while Lilly is not. The only ideas she respected was her own, she expected others to respect it, those that disagree, she'll act like a cunt but Kenny wouldn’t bow down to her tyranny which is why they fight so much.

    8)
    In spite of I were there for him for nearly all occasions, he was still acting like a loser just because I didn't smash Larry's head, didn't steal from a lone car, didn't leave the lone girl to suffer and didn't drop an innocent young man but other than these I was always there with ALL MY SUPPORT to see him satisfied?
    Kenny can call someone "friend" if they helped him to bust some guy's face.
    Kenny can call someone "friend" if they helped him to steal from a lone car.
    Kenny can call someone "friend" if they let an innocent young boy to fall down from the belltower.
    Kenny's reservations for becoming friends are terrific.

    How much was enough to see him acting like a real man? What did I do wrong to not receive at least such a little satisfaction? I was not expecting anything for Lee, if he could act rightfully in general, he would be ok for me like Larry.

    But he chose to push me into hard situations.
    Do you really think that any of my "failures" above is fail of "ethics" ?

    Well my dear fellow, what type of a guy is that Kenny guy ? ? ?

    Kenny only acts like a loser towards you if you don't help him kill the guy who tried to kill you. The others, his reactions are normal and that's it, he doesn't hold a grudge against you for not taking the food or saving Ben, he'll still call you a friend and even if he does act like a loser towards you for not siding with him against Larry, he'll apologise to you later on. He's only mad because you didn't help him take out a guy that was a danger to you and him and even before his heart attack, tried to kill you and his son and possibly be a danger to others which is a reasonable reaction. Lilly acts like a loser when you don't agree with her, at least Kenny's reason is down to survival, Lilly's reason is selfishness. At least Kenny would call you a friend, would Lilly? Answer to that is NO! At least I'm not trying to paint Kenny as a Saint as you and others have been doing with Lilly.

    9)
    There is something in the world entitle : Respect. Respect to other people's feelings&sufferings.Kenny made a breaking point. And contrary to Lilly, he made this kind of things severely!

    Did Lilly respect anybody's feelings and the sufferings she endured on them?
    She put people in difficult situations, yeah, I don't think she gave a damn about other people let alone their feelings.

    [QUOTE]10)
    I strongly recommend you to watch TV series - if you haven't seen them yet, so you can see how people (especially the group leaders) react to those who are about to lose their family members.

    Yes, this is a Zombie Apocalypse which means that it is for everyone, every single person is experiencing the same nightmare and NO ONE is different than the other when you check hard situations, griefs, family issues, etc...

    For further information, please watch Andrea&Amy scene and look for Rick's reaction.
    For more further information, please watch Tyreese&Ben's mother scene- look for Carl's reaction.
    A true leader respects people's feelings.
    Different from these examples, in the game our group was trapped in that meat locker I know, but I think even if a little boy like Carl could treat reasonable with family issues, a man with a family should have known better.
    If it WAS the purpose- blocking Larry from harming anyone in that meat locker- I'd put some salt licks on Larry's different body parts to limit his possible zombie movements than instantly busting Larry's head.

    Because I HAVE A BRAIN which I can use whenever I need.

    But if it was the purpose to kill him, well it depends...

    On the other hand LEEME was there and I really pissed of when Kenny involved the situation which I was already taking care of.

    Now you'll SURELY continue to defend a man(by saying he did everything for his family) who were DOING NOTHING to search for an escape while LEEYOU were looking for an exit from that meat locker.
    Pretty please try to remember his words while you were trying to examine the air went and please remember his answer when you asked him if he had any tools on himself suitable to use on those scre

  • I see my name mentioned quite often in your posts. I started reading but then I realized how you clearly have no idea how to argument yourself so I quit.
    I'm sorry but I definitely do not have time for lines like "After meeting her, it's clear she was a Terrible Leader. "

    I don't see why she's a terrible leader, nor why it is clear.
    Your posts are full of things you believe we should all finally understand but to tell you the truth, all you say has been discussed for so long that nobody is gonna take you seriously.
    Calling me or anybody else fanatic doesn't help either. It only shows how rude and narrow-minded you are.

    There are a lot of people in this forum who do not share my appreciation for Lilly and whom I respect. You are not one of them.

  • Hello Icerider-

    Ok it's clear for me now- why you support Kenny this much.
    Let me explain.

    You support him because he fits MUCH to your playthrouh and to your decisions.

    The thing here is, there are not only one Lilly or not only one Kenny in this game.
    The Kenny I met,
    is way tooooooo different than your Kenny (according to your choices)

    And the Lilly I met,
    is way tooooooo different than your Lilly. (according to your choices,again)

    I'm saying this, because you asked me where did I saw that "caring" Lilly.
    I strongly suggest you to go back and try to side with her while rationing, staying at the motel, and giving a bar of chocolate kinda things... Then maybe you can see another Lilly.

    The thing I'm trying to say here is, your arguments are based on DEPENDEBLE facts( according to playthroughs), while mine were not based on people's choices.
    Because I'm not talking about Kenny whose actions are changeable according to player's choices. The examples I gave were for everyone who played this game.

    For example you mentioned about Christa. Who saved her? I didn't see Kenny were doing it since I didn't drop Ben on that belltower. ( But even if I saw him doing that, I was still like F*** you Kenny, because it was already his fault that Christa fell down. )

    And about Ben, Kenny didn't sacrifice nothing; he only realised that he never treated reasonable to that teenager, and after his family is all gone, he realised he will not handle the idea of a painful death of this young man. Nothing more.

    I see my explanations are still not enough for you.

    Then I must repeat:
    -NO one but NO ONE has the right to act like an executioner when it comes to family issues. Kenny shouldn't KILL Larry, because simply he has NO right to do it. Simple. No .ucking right on someone else's life. -

    Of course, he can still act like an executioner to save his own life (or for his family), but as I said after doing it he must have taken the responsibility and he must have left. As Lilly did.

    You said "And rules? What rules, there are no rules anymore. "
    Ok then, it is not a problem that Lilly killed Carley. No rules, no respect. Nothing.

    Think about again, who is only one sided? :)

    I still insist, everything started by Kenny's arrogance with that salt lick. They were all doing well one way or another. But Kenny screwed at the first most deadly situation the group ever faced.

    Please try to discuss some manners by non-dependable arguments. As I carefully choose the examples which are not changeable for others' playthroughs. If you continue, I'm sorry I'll think that yours doesn't do it for me, too.

    And lastly;
    YES, the drinking issue is the most important thing to me. And disappearances of Clem on both situations looked a bit different to me.
    Because last time I checked, on Lee's situation LEEME was sleeping.

    All the Best and Merry Christmas

  • Holy crap, this is the most debatable thread I've ever seen.
    Let's just say Lilly's cool unless you're an ass to her, same with Kenny.
    Now all of you go celebrate your chrisbocombus day or whatever. :3 <3

Add Comment