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Theology

posted by kaptein_kaffe on - last edited - Viewed by 1.2K users

Discussing religion is generally a very bad idea on the internet, but there are a lot of down to earth and rational people on this forum so I decided to give it a go.

I want to hear your beliefs. Also, try to keep an open mind and show respect to other people's opinions. I don't care weather you're a fanatic catholic, fanatic atheist or whatever. Arguing about "who's right" is just a terrible cliche.

Personally I believe that there is a god. I'm not agnostic, I believe in god, but that's just my own spiritual reflection on it. I don't judge other religions and say that "this is right", it's more along the lines of Baruch de Spinoza's take on it where you see god as everything. Maybe there's a word for what that is, I don't know. I prefer to look at everything that is beyond our understanding with humility. Most of my religious knowledge lies within catholicism and I generally agree with the ten commandments, but I also believe that the religion is blurred for the sake of politics, ways of maintaining order and fanatic influences (edit: + things that are lost in translation). In short, I'm a read between the lines kind of guy.

My knowledge on the subject is limited, so it's possible that I won't be able to keep up with the discussion. I'd just like to hear your views :)

305 Comments - Linear Discussion: Classic Style
  • @thestalkinghead said: what if nobody believes in the correct god and everybody goes to hell (or equivalent) because gods are just like that from what i have heard about them



    dc627a3e2f3268dd79d868197fe28510745d373d

    [cue Highway to Hell]

  • @Alcoremortis said: I think I may have not completely have woken up when I read that. But yeah, I always thought it was ridiculous to change religions, even when I was a kid. Back then, my reasoning was: If you can't believe in the god you grew up with, what makes you think that switching to a different one will make any difference?

    I guess it was because deep inside, I knew back then that every religion was more or less teaching the same thing at it's core, just with different flavorings sprinkled on top. I guess the flavor could make all the difference in the world, but choosing one over the other is like saying that you like green ham over the regular color when there's no real underlying difference in taste.

    Reading back over this, I'm not entirely sure I'm making sense, so if I'm not, I'm probably still half asleep and apparently hungry.



    I'm not sure your final conclusion isn't true at all. The philosophical implication of a system that says right conduct is insufficient for paradisaical existence, versus one that says that right conduct is sufficient, versus one that says that paradisaical existence is non existent, can have wide ranging ramifications in how one approaches life. I understand for a vast majority of individuals who take their beliefs superficially that the implications may not be pronounced, but for people that actually do, the impact on one's actions have to do with wide ranging internal changes of world view and motivation.

  • @puzzlebox said: Are you implying that this is an argument for following an organised religion? If so, it's a false dichotomy. There are plenty of normative ethical theories that aren't coupled with a specific religion and go beyond utilitarianism. You can have an objective moral framework (i.e. believe that some things are inviolably right or wrong, as in natural rights theories) without believing in a deity.



    Which objective morality should I choose?

  • @DAISHI said: I'm not sure your final conclusion isn't true at all.



    Huh? I think I hurt my brain trying to figure this one out.

    I got the rest of what you're saying, though I'd put those sorts of things lumped in with the flavorings. The core of religion, I feel, is more of a semblance of order for the universe, rules and shit, and less any specific teaching... or even the presence of a deity. I suppose there's some religions out there that advocate chaos and uncertainty, but as I can't think any off the top of my head, I'm going to go with they've gone out of style.

  • I am a traditional Catholic. I attend masses spoken in Latin and all of the Bibles in my house are Douay-Rheims traditional Bibles and not newer versions. Personally, the reason I attend traditional masses is because I think that other parishes are too politically correct.

  • Ach! You haven't truly read the Bible until you've read it in the original Klingon!

    | joH'a' ghaH wIj DevwI':
    23:1 jIH DIchDaq Hutlh pagh.
    23:2 | ghaH chen jIH Qot bIng Daq SuD tI yotlh.
    23:2 ghaH Dev jIH retlh vIHHa' bIQmey.
    23:3 | ghaH chenqa' wIj qa'.
    23:3 ghaH Dev jIH Daq the Hemey vo' QaQtaHghach vaD Daj pong chIch.
    23:4 | 'ach 'a jIH yIt vegh the ngech vo' the QIb vo' Hegh,
    23:4 jIH DIchDaq taHvIp ghobe' mIghtaHghach, vaD SoH 'oH tlhej jIH.
    23:4 lIj DevwI' naQ je lIj naQ, chaH belmoH jIH.
    23:5 | SoH ghuH a SopDaq qaSpa' jIH Daq the Daq vo' wIj jaghpu'.
    23:5 SoH anoint wIj nach tlhej Hergh.
    23:5 wIj HIvje' qettaH Dung.
    23:6 | DIch QaQ je muSHa'taH pung DIchDaq tlha' jIH Hoch the jajmey vo' wIj yIn,
    23:6 je jIH DIchDaq yIn Daq joH'a' tuq reH.

  • @Jennifer said: Since we are all people living in the same universe, is it not possible that Jehovah, Allah, Krishna, and even science are the same God taking different forms?




    Matthew 7:13-14
    “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."


    I would take that as a no.

  • @Chyron8472 said: Matthew 7:13-14
    “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."


    I would take that as a no.



    I would take it as a yes. Because I assume the number of people believing in the identity and unity of different deities in one god is much smaller than the number of people believing in their distinctness. So they are with a much higher probability the 'few' to find the right way, aren't they?

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    Jennifer Moderator

    @Chyron8472 said: Matthew 7:13-14
    “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."


    How much is a few in this context? There are millions of Christians all around the world. If they have found the gate, and they qualify as a few, then certainly other people with strong beliefs could count as a few as well, by that definition. There are approximately 7 billion people in the world. If you consider that only a fraction of those people are Christians, Hindu, Jewish, Buddist, or other religious or scientific people with an unwavering conviction in their beliefs, that would still be considered a few.

  • I object to sticking science in with religions. Science is an observation of fact and method of predicting facts that we can't directly observe. Sticking it with religion is like saying history is a religion or math is a religion or that proper grammer is a religion.

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